Russian Street Style

Originally posted by Softee@Apr 15th, 2004 - 8:10 pm
Honey, in case you didn't realize yet, I'm just as Russian as you are, so your babbling about my stereotypical view is as off the mark as it can get.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: Gee, Faust, I'm impressed... not!

Wow, Faust that's brilliant. How long have you been in the States?
Yes, Faust, I'd like to know that too... :wink: When was the last time that you've been to Russia, sweetheart?
Although, you know what... I'm not going to prove to you or anybody, who is more of a Russian: you or me. See, that's just silly and kind of irrelevant.
I know what I see, and I base my opinions on that.
I still don't agree with you and I don't care (especially considering that your arguments went the wrong way). I expressed my view on the article, -you think whatever you like...
All the best! :P
I've been in the states for 12 years and last time I was back in Russia was 2 years ago. I keep in touch with my friends from St.P and Moscow constantly, as well as with Russian bohemia in NYC. So, what was your point exactly?

You say you know what you see and base your opinions on what you see? That's fine. Have you ever thought that you see an incomplete picture? That what you see is not the world, but only a small glimpse of it? Have you ever thought of respecting other's opinions? Have you ever thought that arrogance won't get you far? In your silly 30 posts you've already managed to offend 3 people, two of them Russian, by the way, who know a thing or two about what's going on back home. Maybe you should tone it down a bit, if you want anyone on these forums to take you seriously. Otherwise you might qualify for that Troll of the year award.

And I'll spare you a humiliating discussion about style, you clearly stated it in the Posh Beckham thread.
 
i really don't know much about russia...but you're certainly not doing much to create a positive image for us, softee...your attitude and tone is very off-putting and doesn't exactly make me want to run over to russia to see all the new and wonderful things...it makes me think that there are a bunch of cranky people over there with big fat chips on their shoulders... :ninja:

i'm still waiting to hear what's so fantastic about russia...not just what's bad about other places...it seems to me that lena has given me the most vivid picture of russian culture ...
and she's greek!!

:innocent:
 
Originally posted by faust@Apr 16th, 2004 - 11:13 am


I've been in the states for 12 years and last time I was back in Russia was 2 years ago. I keep in touch with my friends from St.P and Moscow constantly, as well as with Russian bohemia in NYC. So, what was your point exactly?

Thank you. That explains everything.
But what did you prove by that? What is your point? You're more of a Russian? I told you this conversation is going nowhere... Chances are, you don't even hold a Russian passport anymore, and you only remember that you are Russian when it's convenient for you. On other occasions you are American, or Jewish. :wink:

You say you know what you see and base your opinions on what you see? That's fine. Have you ever thought that you see an incomplete picture? That what you see is not the world, but only a small glimpse of it? Have you ever thought of respecting other's opinions? Have you ever thought that arrogance won't get you far? In your silly 30 posts you've already managed to offend 3 people, two of them Russian, by the way, who know a thing or two about what's going on back home. Maybe you should tone it down a bit, if you want anyone on these forums to take you seriously. Otherwise you might qualify for that Troll of the year award.

I have considered that. Thanx for pointing it out, I was waiting for that. But has it ever occured to you that a person who lives in Russia, and travels, might have a clearer picture than an American journalist writing for no other but New York Times?
I don't consider that article accurate, it's very superficial. It's just another person's opinion. No more than that. No research went into that. And I disagree.

And FYI I didn't offend anybody. The article was written in a condescending manner, and I think it's pretty obvious.

Plus, you preach me about respecting opinins of others using such statements as "blabbing" and "your silly 30 posts?" I think you should take your own lesson to heart first, and then preach.

And I'll spare you a humiliating discussion about style, you clearly stated it in the Posh Beckham thread.

That does it. That line right there shows just how respectful and refined you are. Have you ever heard of an adage "Tastes differ?" :lol:

Oh, please don't spare me. I've been waiting for an argument on style since your first attempt to shut me up... But instead all I heard was, "I'm Russian too, I'm Russian too..." :rolleyes:
Please go ahead. No more insults, just arguments in favour or against the article.
I challenge you. :boxer:
 
Originally posted by Softee+Apr 16th, 2004 - 2:35 pm--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Softee @ Apr 16th, 2004 - 2:35 pm)</div><div class='quotemain'> <!--QuoteBegin-faust@Apr 16th, 2004 - 11:13 am


I've been in the states for 12 years and last time I was back in Russia was 2 years ago.  I keep in touch with my friends from St.P and Moscow constantly, as well as with Russian bohemia in NYC.  So, what was your point exactly?

Thank you. That explains everything.
But what did you prove by that? What is your point? You're more of a Russian? I told you this conversation is going nowhere... Chances are, you don't even hold a Russian passport anymore, and you only remember that you are Russian when it's convenient for you. On other occasions you are American, or Jewish. :wink:

You say you know what you see and base your opinions on what you see?  That's fine.  Have you ever thought that you see an incomplete picture?  That what you see is not the world, but only a small glimpse of it?  Have you ever thought of respecting other's opinions?  Have you ever thought that arrogance won't get you far?  In your silly 30 posts you've already managed to offend 3 people, two of them Russian, by the way, who know a thing or two about what's going on back home.  Maybe you should tone it down a bit, if you want anyone on these forums to take you seriously.  Otherwise you might qualify for that Troll of the year award.

I have considered that. Thanx for pointing it out, I was waiting for that. But has it ever occured to you that a person who lives in Russia, and travels, might have a clearer picture than an American journalist writing for no other but New York Times?
I don't consider that article accurate, it's very superficial. It's just another person's opinion. No more than that. No research went into that. And I disagree.

And FYI I didn't offend anybody. The article was written in a condescending manner, and I think it's pretty obvious.

Plus, you preach me about respecting opinins of others using such statements as "blabbing" and "your silly 30 posts?" I think you should take your own lesson to heart first, and then preach.

And I'll spare you a humiliating discussion about style, you clearly stated it in the Posh Beckham thread.

That does it. That line right there shows just how respectful and refined you are. Have you ever heard of an adage "Tastes differ?" :lol:

Oh, please don't spare me. I've been waiting for an argument on style since your first attempt to shut me up... But instead all I heard was, "I'm Russian too, I'm Russian too..." :rolleyes:
Please go ahead. No more insults, just arguments in favour or against the article.
I challenge you. :boxer: [/b][/quote]
okay that's enough...no more challenging anyone...this is not a competition... :flower:

and enough with the personal attacks...

circles...going 'round in circles... :innocent:
 
Chances are, you don't even hold a Russian passport anymore, and you only remember that you are Russian when it's convenient for you. On other occasions you are American, or Jewish.

Why am I not surprised it came down to this?
 
Originally posted by Sugo@Apr 16th, 2004 - 4:36 pm
Chances are, you don't even hold a Russian passport anymore, and you only remember that you are Russian when it's convenient for you. On other occasions you are American, or Jewish.

Why am I not surprised it came down to this?
Sugo, please do not feed the troll.
 
Lena, no problem. You started this topic after all.

Sugo, I didn't wanna say it, but she pursued...

Faust, I knew that you were the one blabbing. Bye. :mrgreen:
 
:woot: is she gone!?!?!?.... :flower: :clap:

i wasn't going to say anything...but her whole premise was flawed as the article was written in MOSCOW!...probably by a freelance RUSSIAN jounalist!.... :innocent:
 
Softgrey, no, I'm still here, and what a stupid thing to say in a public forum... :rolleyes: We're not sitting in your house, you know...

Plus, how do you know that the article was written by a Russian, in Moscow? - Well, you don't.
So, your "whole premise" is nonexisistent. And half the statements you make a completely off topic. B) :P
What's the point of talking about something you don't know!?
There's a name for it - BS. :lol:
 
Originally posted by Softee@Apr 16th, 2004 - 6:43 pm
Softgrey, no, I'm still here, and what a stupid thing to say in a public forum... :rolleyes: We're not sitting in your house, you know...

Plus, how do you know that the article was written by a Russian, in Moscow? - Well, you don't.
So, your "whole premise" is nonexisistent. And half the statements you make a completely off topic. B) :P
What's the point of talking about something you don't know!?
There's a name for it - BS. :lol:
yes i do know...because i have the NY Times and it says so...

and try having a sense of humour...i was joking... :lol: :lol: :lol:
 
Erin (the writer of the article) is an American living in Moscow. She has been there for a bit under a year and is the NYT business correspondent in Moscow.
Interpret that as you will.
 
I have read the article once again and couldn't find anything offensive about russian fashion or Russians. It said:

1. The "new" fashion bussiness is born. Not home sewing, not catalog-look-a-like orders, not clothes-for-clothes, but shops offering good designs for people at good prices.


2. People don't seem to be slave to logos anymore. Even super-rich Russians are defining their own ways of wearing labels. And streets look as colorful as those in Tokyo or NY.


3. The high fashion scene is Russia is flowering, due to young designers and Russians' love for designs. The next big thing might be russian designs worn by non-Russians as well :-)


4. President Putin is a fashion's role model :-)


What one might miss here is still the authentic "russian fashion", like Lena said, not only russian interpretation of western fashion. I think I am talking stereotypes here, but when one says Italian, American, British or French fashion, you know what he/she means. Also there are Japanese and Belgian designers who changed the way we think about fashion. Although these designers have very personal and original visions, they are still considered as "groups" by their "root". So time has come for Russians (and others, too:-) as well.


Softee, instead of making comments about our loved ones here on the tFs, and blahing about how people still see SU instead of new Russia (btw, why?), you could write sth about fashion in the SU era and now:-), you could also do some research and make some fotos. This could be far more interesting and could give us a closer view on russian style, as close as you want to. And please remember that fashion is not just shows and club/party-goers:-)
 
An article (British) that someone may want to read...
From Russia with cash
Crocodile, cashmere and fur are booming as new Russian money fuels demand for outrageous luxury goods, reports Claudia Croft

Jewelled Yves Saint Laurent shoes that cost more than £1,000, crocodile Hermès Kellys with diamond-encrusted clasps and £55,000 price tags, limited-edition Gucci bags, mink-trimmed evening gowns and beaded Versace or Valentino couture frocks. This is what the wealthiest Russians like to wear — not just in Moscow, but in London, Paris, or wherever in the world they happen to be.
Russian taste has gone global, and not only because the Moscow jet set likes to get around. The Russians’ passion for all things luxurious is driving the world’s big fashion labels and single-handedly rescuing the luxury-goods industry from its economic mire — they are now one of the most influential consumer groups in the world. Five years ago, the idea of Louis Vuitton producing a bag trimmed with real gold and turquoise and costing £13,000 (as they did for spring/summer 2004) would have been unthinkable. But that was before the dawn of oligarch chic — a money-is-no-object approach that singles out the rare, beautiful and expensive.

Just as the Arab love affair with French and Italian glamour pushed the global expansion of fashion in the 1980s, and Japanese logomania fuelled the luxury goods boom of the 1990s (even today, one in three Japanese women owns a piece of Louis Vuitton), now it is the turn of the Russians. They have been avid consumers of luxury goods since the fall of communism in the early 1990s, but are fast becoming tastemakers in their own right. “What the Japanese were to the 1990s, the Russians are to the Noughties,” says a spokesman for Harvey Nichols, which has seen applications for its in-house credit card from customers with Russian postcodes double in the past year.

But the Russians don’t even have to come to London for the latest looks and labels. A rash of luxury-goods houses, including Dior, Chanel, Celine, Valentino, Yves Saint Laurent, Gucci and, most recently, Burberry, has opened Moscow stores. Unlike the glittering but empty flagships in the other emerging markets of China and India, these Russian stores generate huge amounts of income for their brands. In 1994, Versace was the first big fashion label to open in Moscow, and Russia accounts for 10% of the total sales for the label.

“Just look at the Hermitage. No wonder the Russians like Versace — they like anything that is glamorous and ostentatious,” says the Russian-born Assia Webster, whose husband, the jeweller Stephen Webster, has opened a Moscow store. “But they are much more sophisticated than they used to be. They wear Chloé and Yves Saint Laurent and carry the latest handbags. Our customers in Moscow complain that we don’t send them expensive enough things. All our most dazzling jewellery goes to Moscow.”

Stylewise, it’s a far cry from the new-money brashness of the early 1990s Russians (all big hair, trashy clothes and outlandish furs). Today’s wealthy Russian shoppers are among fashion’s most well-informed and discerning. They are the ones who bring tear sheets from the latest magazines into the stores and seek out limited-edition bags, hard-to-get bikinis and hot-off-the-catwalk looks. “I believe the Russian customer is becoming increasingly sophisticated and therefore more open to all kinds of fashion,” says Giorgio Armani. “We sell more beaded evening gowns in Moscow than in many other principal cities in the world.”

At Yves Saint Laurent, the story is the same. “They want the most special pieces, the stand-out items,” says one insider. They go for the colourful and sparkly pieces, but also anything precious or limited edition.” Gucci’s Russian clients have snapped up its most glamorous pieces, including a £1,700 Swarovski crystal-studded clutch and a £2,280 shoulder bag dripping in gold fringe.

Over at Hermès, Russians want the best that money can buy, too. “If it comes in suede or lizard, they’ll take the lizard,” says a representative. It’s no surprise, then, that the LVMH labels Celine and Louis Vuitton are running special customer evenings just for their London-based Russian clients. No other nationality is being targeted in this way, and at these private events, fur, crocodile and cashmere are top of the shopping lists.

The Russians may be hungry for high fashion and luxury, but according to the designer Antonio Berardi, whose extravagantly beaded and embroidered clothes have earned him a huge Russian following, there is one thing they don’t understand. “They don’t buy basics,” he says. “However sophisticated the customer has become, some things just don’t translate.” Anyone know the Russian for mink knickers?


 
Originally posted by nqth@Apr 20th, 2004 - 7:44 am
I have read the article once again and couldn't find anything offensive about russian fashion or Russians. It said:

1. The "new" fashion bussiness is born. Not home sewing, not catalog-look-a-like orders, not clothes-for-clothes, but shops offering good designs for people at good prices.


2. People don't seem to be slave to logos anymore. Even super-rich Russians are defining their own ways of wearing labels. And streets look as colorful as those in Tokyo or NY.


3. The high fashion scene is Russia is flowering, due to young designers and Russians' love for designs. The next big thing might be russian designs worn by non-Russians as well :-)


4. President Putin is a fashion's role model :-)


What one might miss here is still the authentic "russian fashion", like Lena said, not only russian interpretation of western fashion. I think I am talking stereotypes here, but when one says Italian, American, British or French fashion, you know what he/she means. Also there are Japanese and Belgian designers who changed the way we think about fashion. Although these designers have very personal and original visions, they are still considered as "groups" by their "root". So time has come for Russians (and others, too:-) as well.


Softee, instead of making comments about our loved ones here on the tFs, and blahing about how people still see SU instead of new Russia (btw, why?), you could write sth about fashion in the SU era and now:-), you could also do some research and make some fotos. This could be far more interesting and could give us a closer view on russian style, as close as you want to. And please remember that fashion is not just shows and club/party-goers:-)
When I think of the stereotypes,as far as fashion,of a certain country,I think of traditions being carried along and there's nothing wrong with those,non? Its the way many reinterpret those traditions that makes them not a stereotype yet still very identifiable.

Russia has alot of very indentifiable revelations in the work of their designers,BUT from what I have seen they are careful not to become a clichéd notion of what Russia is ALL about. So no,I don't see why you would be so defensive when its all around us in every single country-the Brits known for their eccentricities,the Belgians with their lush romanticism....those things will always remain a distinction of their roots,like you said Nqth :flower:
 
Originally posted by strawberry daiquiri@Apr 20th, 2004 - 12:51 pm
An article (British) that someone may want to read...

From Russia with cash
Crocodile, cashmere and fur are booming as new Russian money fuels demand for outrageous luxury goods, reports Claudia Croft

Jewelled Yves Saint Laurent shoes that cost more than £1,000, crocodile Hermès Kellys with diamond-encrusted clasps and £55,000 price tags, limited-edition Gucci bags, mink-trimmed evening gowns and beaded Versace or Valentino couture frocks. This is what the wealthiest Russians like to wear — not just in Moscow, but in London, Paris, or wherever in the world they happen to be.
Russian taste has gone global, and not only because the Moscow jet set likes to get around. The Russians’ passion for all things luxurious is driving the world’s big fashion labels and single-handedly rescuing the luxury-goods industry from its economic mire — they are now one of the most influential consumer groups in the world. Five years ago, the idea of Louis Vuitton producing a bag trimmed with real gold and turquoise and costing £13,000 (as they did for spring/summer 2004) would have been unthinkable. But that was before the dawn of oligarch chic — a money-is-no-object approach that singles out the rare, beautiful and expensive.

Just as the Arab love affair with French and Italian glamour pushed the global expansion of fashion in the 1980s, and Japanese logomania fuelled the luxury goods boom of the 1990s (even today, one in three Japanese women owns a piece of Louis Vuitton), now it is the turn of the Russians. They have been avid consumers of luxury goods since the fall of communism in the early 1990s, but are fast becoming tastemakers in their own right. “What the Japanese were to the 1990s, the Russians are to the Noughties,” says a spokesman for Harvey Nichols, which has seen applications for its in-house credit card from customers with Russian postcodes double in the past year.

But the Russians don’t even have to come to London for the latest looks and labels. A rash of luxury-goods houses, including Dior, Chanel, Celine, Valentino, Yves Saint Laurent, Gucci and, most recently, Burberry, has opened Moscow stores. Unlike the glittering but empty flagships in the other emerging markets of China and India, these Russian stores generate huge amounts of income for their brands. In 1994, Versace was the first big fashion label to open in Moscow, and Russia accounts for 10% of the total sales for the label.

“Just look at the Hermitage. No wonder the Russians like Versace — they like anything that is glamorous and ostentatious,” says the Russian-born Assia Webster, whose husband, the jeweller Stephen Webster, has opened a Moscow store. “But they are much more sophisticated than they used to be. They wear Chloé and Yves Saint Laurent and carry the latest handbags. Our customers in Moscow complain that we don’t send them expensive enough things. All our most dazzling jewellery goes to Moscow.”

Stylewise, it’s a far cry from the new-money brashness of the early 1990s Russians (all big hair, trashy clothes and outlandish furs). Today’s wealthy Russian shoppers are among fashion’s most well-informed and discerning. They are the ones who bring tear sheets from the latest magazines into the stores and seek out limited-edition bags, hard-to-get bikinis and hot-off-the-catwalk looks. “I believe the Russian customer is becoming increasingly sophisticated and therefore more open to all kinds of fashion,” says Giorgio Armani. “We sell more beaded evening gowns in Moscow than in many other principal cities in the world.”

At Yves Saint Laurent, the story is the same. “They want the most special pieces, the stand-out items,” says one insider. They go for the colourful and sparkly pieces, but also anything precious or limited edition.” Gucci’s Russian clients have snapped up its most glamorous pieces, including a £1,700 Swarovski crystal-studded clutch and a £2,280 shoulder bag dripping in gold fringe.

Over at Hermès, Russians want the best that money can buy, too. “If it comes in suede or lizard, they’ll take the lizard,” says a representative. It’s no surprise, then, that the LVMH labels Celine and Louis Vuitton are running special customer evenings just for their London-based Russian clients. No other nationality is being targeted in this way, and at these private events, fur, crocodile and cashmere are top of the shopping lists.

The Russians may be hungry for high fashion and luxury, but according to the designer Antonio Berardi, whose extravagantly beaded and embroidered clothes have earned him a huge Russian following, there is one thing they don’t understand. “They don’t buy basics,” he says. “However sophisticated the customer has become, some things just don’t translate.” Anyone know the Russian for mink knickers?


Now, THAT article is two years too late. Pick up the current issue of W., you will find an article that is totally opposite of this one. How long will the Brits amuse themselves with the tales of the Russian showiness? It's so passe...

I find this quote particularly dumb:

“Just look at the Hermitage. No wonder the Russians like Versace — they like anything that is glamorous and ostentatious,” says the Russian-born Assia Webster, whose husband, the jeweller Stephen Webster, has opened a Moscow store. “

Hermitage was a palace built for Russian tzars hundreds of years ago. What does that have to do with Russian style today? Would you say that the French have no style just because Versailles is ugly on the outside and just as ostentatious on the inside? That's silly...
 
Originally posted by Scott@Apr 20th, 2004 - 1:22 pm
When I think of the stereotypes,as far as fashion,of a certain country,I think of traditions being carried along and there's nothing wrong with those,non? Its the way many reinterpret those traditions that makes them not a stereotype yet still very identifiable.

Ditto :-) Scott. Nobody lives in "the void", and great designers make their traditions so "universal" and appealing to people. That why I love fashion :-) and my "fashion stereotypes" are really the styles that the British, French, Belgian and other designers have contributed to fashion.

Anyway, I have read an interview with Rei Kawakubo from the early 90s (in Japanese, automatically translated into English - so I could not understand the whole things correctly:-) where she seemed not so fond of western press calling "Japanese designers" :-) I think she might want the press not to simplify the works of other designers as well.
 

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