Saint Laurent F/W 13.14 Paris

[Izreal]

Haters Gonna Hate: the recourse for debate for those who don't have anything of substance to say. Not that Izrael hasn't been trying to substantiate his position, but I just find it lazy thinking (if in fact the brain cells are accessed at all) whenever someone brings up this desperate cliche just so they get in a final word (again, not that this is what Izrael is doing; I know he meant it as tongue-in-cheek). It's such juvenile rationality at work.

The difference betwen the YSL of yesteryear and the YSL of today is that back then there was no internet. People had limited knowledge and lacked exposure to ideas and concepts. So the shock of something new was a possibility, the repulsion towards that which was inconceivable. But in this day and age when everything is at saturation point because it is easily accessible makes immediate response more informed, more perceptive, and, in certain ways, more prescient. Still, that depends on how lazy or not the person who's responding is. I do believe, however, this collection will be remembered solely for the reactions it produced instead of the actual clothes on show.

obviously it's meant as tongue-in-cheek but it isn't much lazier then certain comments berating hedi/slp ... fwiw i think there is some intended controversy in this latest collection that incidentally reminds of the YSL71 collection posted above where therefore "haters gonna hate" & "baiters gonna bait" is kind of what is expected in a sense which is why it's mildly appropriate to poke fun at it here imo, especially in the midst of such pseudo-cerebral analyses.. btw it's izrEal lolz

 

[TREVOFASHIONISTO]

there are going to be people who openly bash this collection, and then when it hit stores they buy it. I have no doubt this collection will sell, all Hedi needs is a few celebrities to wear it and be photographed in it. I don't think he is going anywhere as much as a lot of wish. A girl in my class who interns at SL says everyone there loves the collection so either everyone is lying to themselves or this is what's to permanently come for the house.

 

[Izreal]

not to mention "there is no such thing as bad publicity"
this thread alone is by far the most active of FW13 (both in views & replies) even though it's maybe 95% negative opinions..
while some big players like my beloved margiela don't even hit the 20 reply meter (http://forums.thefashionspot.com/f60/maison-martin-margiela-f-w-13-14-paris-225157.html) that speaks volumes imo

 

[tricotineacetat]

Another point I've already raised in the men's collection thread but that I'm willing to raise here again is how I don't find anything I haven't already got from many seasons past at Dior Homme that I would easily be able to resemble Hedi's current outré for Saint Laurent - All of the jeans are fairly simple washes, the coats and jackets basic in their design. I care little about show styling but can dissect the looks into separate pieces which would in this case not give me that urgency to buy as I know he will have exactly the same things again the season after... That wasn't so much the case before, where the collection shined with trophy jackets galore to immediately want.

 

[Izreal]

even if the same aesthetic and marketing principles are similar if not carbon copies of what hedi did at DH, there is an evolution, and change in design & attitude. afterall the template for those basics that he created at DH are still available there, SLP needed some kind of differentiation. the denim for example is an entirely new cut, much shorter inseam, no darts, two waist heights, three hem sizes, selvedge options etc.. as i already mentioned the jackets fit a lot different with a much shorter length (fwiw i have DH items all the way up to FW07 to compare with) it's to the point where i'm wondering if young boys instead of young adults weren't used for patron fits.. j/k hopefully just some early production issues.. the outerwear will definitely expand.. but so far the attitude is different to DH, more LA scenester, less urban techno which is surely the influence of his new environment.. i like the moto influences though, something Decarnin got right at Balmain, so we'll see where that leads.. in any case we need to give the house a little momentum as they are still somehwhat in transition.. and lost in translation

 

[darkskinee]

for me, the good i see in here is that i have now more purchasing power and happy that he has not abandoned his aesthetics (so much) from his dh days. my style has been solid and doesn't change anymore. back then i would not try pieces in the boutique since i know i couldn't afford them, now i can be a kid in a candy store a second chance for me in a way. sometimes i can't believe that some of hedi's pieces i own and wear alot are already 10 yrs old but still are edgy to this time. i do see new covetable pieces he hasn't done before, one of which are the leather pants.

 

[tricotineacetat]

even if the same aesthetic and marketing principles are similar if not carbon copies of what hedi did at DH, there is an evolution, and change in design & attitude. afterall the template for those basics that he created at DH are still available there, SLP needed some kind of differentiation. the denim for example is an entirely new cut, much shorter inseam, no darts, two waist heights, three hem sizes, selvedge options etc.. as i already mentioned the jackets fit a lot different with a much shorter length (fwiw i have DH items all the way up to FW07 to compare with) it's to the point where i'm wondering if young boys instead of young adults weren't used for patron fits.. j/k hopefully just some early production issues.. the outerwear will definitely expand.. but so far the attitude is different to DH, more LA scenester, less urban techno which is surely the influence of his new environment.. i like the moto influences though, something Decarnin got right at Balmain, so we'll see where that leads.. in any case we need to give the house a little momentum as they are still somehwhat in transition.. and lost in translation

I think you're trying to over-conceptualizing here. What most of the customers and critiques are seeing is yet another notch or peak lapel jacket with either one, two or three buttons - oh wait, there are now a few more shawl collars then there may have been at Dior, but that's hardly making a big enough differentation, just as much as a pair of strategically placed darts do, except for giving a garment a trademark element. So in that regard, I think you are really reading too far into the thing, this is not Yohji Yamamoto or any other whimsical designer, Hedi Slimane always stood for a sense of exacto-realness towards his work and that's what he's always been appreciated for; clothes that are on point in terms of cut and immaculate fabrication. A black motorcycle jacket is a black motorcycle jacket, means it is a universal, common staple any designer has done his take on before. And it's not that Hedi hadn't already hemmed the Dior jeans shorter or made them tighter (for the runway) to begin with...

All of this really brings me towards the conclusion that the two collections he's developed so far failed to impress with an update or an excuse to buy into something I would need to buy immediately or I'd regret to miss out on it - which is exactly what his collections at Dior usually did.

 

[Izreal]

it's not a question of "over-conceptualizing" i just have perhaps a different approach than you.. for me a black moto jacket isn't just a moto jacket, and the same goes for denim, sneakers or just about any item not matter how "basic" or "universal" it may be. there is an infinity of cuts and proportions that go way beyond "relaxed" "straight" & "slim" even if we often use such adjectives to describe clothing. same goes for fabric, leather isn't just leather... denim isn't just denim... etc etc. finally you've got the aesthetic, the details, the branding signature. i take all of this into account because it's what justifies the price of shopping high-end. if none of these things matter, indeed you are better off at topshop/zara/goodwill where you can get a black perfecto, slim jeans & biker boots for 1/100th the price.. on the other hand if you are only interested in that pièce unique, such as the napoleon jacket or other "holy grail" items found in DH collections well that is where i say give the house a little momentum.. fwiw i haven't been wowed by anything just yet but there are definitely some covetable items that just might lure me back in..

 

[CATO]

The day before yesterday snapped in a Paris showroom:

A designer at a major Japanese buyers: "Did you see the **** that Slimane did for Saint Laurent?"
"Yes."
"Will you buy it?"
"We have to. Company policy. "

Enjoy your orders!

modepilot.de

 

[Mathewthew]

modepilot.de

The aint laurent t-shirt is getting boring. Maybe Hedi should make one himself, it's everyone wants it now. I'm sure it boots the sales. Probably it's a PPR products

Even people are hating everything. But I start seeing people putting their photos of SL online. So it may actually works within those rich kids. And now, we'll see what's he will do next.

 

[lepetitcouturier]

The aint laurent t-shirt is getting boring. Maybe Hedi should make one himself, it's everyone wants it now. I'm sure it boots the sales. Probably it's a PPR products

Even people are hating everything. But I start seeing people putting their photos of SL online. So it may actually works within those rich kids. And now, we'll see what's he will do next.

II know the shirt is getting a bit old, but does anyone know where I could get it? Nobody around where I live probably even knows who Yves Saint Laurent is

 

[Desi]

i find it quite funny actually since quad skates haven't been seen since the late 70s/80s.. (and people say hedi has no humor) perhaps a roller disco theme collection will be next and finally disco54 will be happy

Nah roller-rings are still hopping. At least there is a very popular one here in Baltimore. Used to own a pair of quads myself when i was younger, they were the only ones allowed at the rings and having your own pair was better than renting

 

[Uemarasan]

obviously it's meant as tongue-in-cheek but it isn't much lazier then certain comments berating hedi/slp ... fwiw i think there is some intended controversy in this latest collection that incidentally reminds of the YSL71 collection posted above where therefore "haters gonna hate" & "baiters gonna bait" is kind of what is expected in a sense which is why it's mildly appropriate to poke fun at it here imo, especially in the midst of such pseudo-cerebral analyses.. btw it's izrEal lolz

I certainly hope you're not calling my posts pseudo-cerebral analyses. I do think that the bar for thinking these days has been set so low than even a modicum of effort at critical thought is entirely welcome in my book. (It's far worse being stupid and ignorant than pseudo-cerebral). Anyway, I agree that this collection certainly does not deserve the attention and critique that people have been devoting to it, but if it inspires dialogue and debate, well then, it isn't entirely THAT bad.

 

[tricotineacetat]

it's not a question of "over-conceptualizing" i just have perhaps a different approach than you.. for me a black moto jacket isn't just a moto jacket, and the same goes for denim, sneakers or just about any item not matter how "basic" or "universal" it may be. there is an infinity of cuts and proportions that go way beyond "relaxed" "straight" & "slim" even if we often use such adjectives to describe clothing. same goes for fabric, leather isn't just leather... denim isn't just denim... etc etc. finally you've got the aesthetic, the details, the branding signature. i take all of this into account because it's what justifies the price of shopping high-end. if none of these things matter, indeed you are better off at topshop/zara/goodwill where you can get a black perfecto, slim jeans & biker boots for 1/100th the price.. on the other hand if you are only interested in that pièce unique, such as the napoleon jacket or other "holy grail" items found in DH collections well that is where i say give the house a little momentum.. fwiw i haven't been wowed by anything just yet but there are definitely some covetable items that just might lure me back in..

If you insist on a designer garment to feature (or not feature, in that case) a pair of strategically placed back darts or visible white hand stitches to differentiate high end from high street fashions, you appear as just as much of a snob as any other person that eventually buys into a brand for it's off-the-moment cool factor. As far as I am concerned, I take the perfectly strict cut, the minutest, uncompromized attention to finish and fabrication for granted, those are what I consider to be the trademarks of a garment designed by Hedi Slimane.

As long as there is integrity in that field assured and I still fit the clothes, I will continue to consider buying, no matter how much I disagree with his stupid indie-hipster obsessions since circa FW'04 - Granted he delivers something more surprising than the cornerstone 'basics' I've already got from him.

 

[tricotineacetat]

...one more thing regarding Hedi Slimane's shift of interest over the years; when he started out at Dior (or in fact, towards his late tenure at YSL Rive Gauche Homme), his designs were known to have a certain graphic, purist, cerebral quality. There are subtle ways of working with colour at that time that were very Yves, and in a way, a much more modern way of taking the Saint Laurent legacy into the 21st Century. With those collections, it was totally valid to associate him next to great minds such as Yohji, Comme, Jil Sander or Helmut Lang and it's without doubt that clothes from this time of his career belong preserved in fashion collections such as the Kyoto Fashion Institute.

The very fact that he would be named alongside Balmain, Anna Sui or Pucci nowadays just seems like a bitter waste of his talent, even worse than Helmut Lang becoming an artist doing Louise Bourgeois-inspired sculptures.

 

[Izreal]

i know what you mean but in the end this is a business, not an art exhibit.. i think hedi was brought in by PPR to make YSL cool again not alienate it through postmodern concepts.. therefore the focus here is on wearability/accesibility instead of cerebral whimsicality..

as far as the "darts" or white stitching in the case of margiela.. obviously these are the least important "features" i'm interested in when looking at a garment. i do enjoy the subtle touch, even if it is a trademark, as only those in the know would recognize it (as opposed to a logo). nothing too snob about it, levis pretty much invented the concept with their back pocket arcuates in the late 19th century, it's really part of denim quintessence..

anyways what you take for granted (strict cut, uncompromised attention to finish & fabrication) is mostly what i'm interested in. the fact that the clothing is wearable is not a problem for me, although the "LA scenester" side doesn't really speak to me, and for this alone i wish hedi was back in europe.. but i find even more elitist and narrow-minded the views that a designer can only be redeemed satisfactory if the clothing is sartorial, socialite friendly or purely cerebral..

 

[Izreal]

@uemarasan: wasn't aiming you, fwiw i agree on your last point

@desi: didn't realize roller-rings / quads were still popular in the USA, i thought it was a nod to 70s/80s california culture!

 

[tricotineacetat]

i know what you mean but in the end this is a business, not an art exhibit.. i think hedi was brought in by PPR to make YSL cool again not alienate it through postmodern concepts.. therefore the focus here is on wearability/accesibility instead of cerebral whimsicality..

as far as the "darts" or white stitching in the case of margiela.. obviously these are the least important "features" i'm interested in when looking at a garment. i do enjoy the subtle touch, even if it is a trademark, as only those in the know would recognize it (as opposed to a logo). nothing too snob about it, levis pretty much invented the concept with their back pocket arcuates in the late 19th century, it's really part of denim quintessence..

anyways what you take for granted (strict cut, uncompromised attention to finish & fabrication) is mostly what i'm interested in. the fact that the clothing is wearable is not a problem for me, although the "LA scenester" side doesn't really speak to me, and for this alone i wish hedi was back in europe.. but i find even more elitist and narrow-minded the views that a designer can only be redeemed satisfactory if the clothing is sartorial, socialite friendly or purely cerebral..

Well, look no further than at what Jil Sander is doing or what she has been building her success story on - I don't really see any less accessibility in designing thoughtfully engineered clothes as she does, things that make sense for people of a variety of ages etc. - Nobody wants to turn back the clock and restrict women with the lifestyle of the 1950ies in mind (not sure if Raf Simons does, I found none of his last few collections at Jil Sander ever made sense to a modern woman's needs), but what Slimane is doing now just deems the question whether he still has a clear understanding on how he wants his customer to dress. Compared to his first collection, this second one does look even younger and more contemporary-market in attitude. I am expecting from a designer of his calibre a more stable and consistent message.

 

[Izreal]

yes but jil sander had complete creative control, she started her own label (even if we all know of the fallouts with prada, the raf simons era etc) raf is actually a better example as he is in a similar position in a synonymous house.. his approach at dior is a lot safer so far, but it also leaves me incredibly empty (as kva at dh incidentally).. getting back to slimane at ysl, i think it's a bit early to pass final judgement.. i think he's still trying to work out a clear direction, it seems to me this last collection was a bit of a brouha inspired by the SS71 show, and i have a feeling he will counter-act on his next show..

 

[Deleted member 7575]

...one more thing regarding Hedi Slimane's shift of interest over the years; when he started out at Dior (or in fact, towards his late tenure at YSL Rive Gauche Homme), his designs were known to have a certain graphic, purist, cerebral quality. There are subtle ways of working with colour at that time that were very Yves, and in a way, a much more modern way of taking the Saint Laurent legacy into the 21st Century. With those collections, it was totally valid to associate him next to great minds such as Yohji, Comme, Jil Sander or Helmut Lang and it's without doubt that clothes from this time of his career belong preserved in fashion collections such as the Kyoto Fashion Institute.

The very fact that he would be named alongside Balmain, Anna Sui or Pucci nowadays just seems like a bitter waste of his talent, even worse than Helmut Lang becoming an artist doing Louise Bourgeois-inspired sculptures.

Thank you! You get to the core of what is so disappointing about all of this, what makes it truly sad. Who knows, maybe Hedi will start feeling nostalgic (real nostalgia, not the fake rock n' roll nostalgia he's been clinging to) and go back to what he was doing in the '90s.