Savile Row - a part to play in modern 'fashion'?

[richarddanks]

Do Savile Row tailors sit comfortably alongside modern luxury goods
houses such as Zegna, Brioni or Armani?

Is it correct to describe Savile Row as ‘luxury’, is it really a ‘cut above’ and does it have a place in today’s ‘fashion’ world?

 

[gius]

definitely luxury.. it's fit to a person's own body, one of a kind.. hand-sewn finishes..attention to detail, beautiful fabrics. equal to haute couture.

isn't that where the Queen has the men of her court dressed


ETA: but does it have a place in modern fashion.. hmm...
i think, at least, it's a good place to apprentice.. to learn the trade, the techniques. quite valuable, sharpening your own skills and becoming a master in those to help you become a top end designer/couturier / engineer...

and then there are also people with particular body types and very specific on what they want, that they can't get in pret-a-porter.. so this business feeds their needs

 

[Crying Diamonds]

Love Gieves and Hawkes. I love the superfluous details they have on their jackets - the second button is never meant to be buttoned up - the jacket is designed that way, if it is buttoned the jacket goes completely out of shape.
The shape of the jacket almost drapes around the body. The hand-stitching on the lapels is exquisite.
Savile Row will always have a place in the luxury market as long as people have taste.
They may not have the billions from profits like the Italians but their work, steeped in history and nobility, is unsurpassed.

 

[MUXU]

yea, it is definitely a luxury to have a bespoke suit made to your size and specific order and made in the highest quality. generally speaking, if you were to get a basic bespoke 3 piece suit from the houses on savile row, depending on their history there and ranks, it would cost around £3000. and it just goes higher and higher.
some very old houses on savile row include Gieves and Hawkes, which is located on no.1 of savile row and Anderson and Shepherd which i believe is next door i think. alexander mcqueen was an apprentice at Anderson and Shepherds.

i cant say im an expert on bespoke tailoring, though i am studying bespoke tailoring, but i do not have a heavy intention of venturing into this business later on.

some argue that italian bespoke is better than english bespoke or vice versa but it just depends on your appeal. they have different styles of working and making.

there is definitely a place in the world for bespoke tailoring, especially when you get rich clients who have, let's say, difficult body shapes to compact with just regular ready to wear luxury suits.
also with the comeback of more women's tailoring in high fashion, it might further expand the bespoke bussiness in terms of women's wear, where as it's still mainly men's wear based.

 

[MUXU]

Love Gieves and Hawkes. I love the superfluous details they have on their jackets - the second button is never meant to be buttoned up - the jacket is designed that way, if it is buttoned the jacket goes completely out of shape.
The shape of the jacket almost drapes around the body. The hand-stitching on the lapels is exquisite.
Savile Row will always have a place in the luxury market as long as people have taste.
They may not have the billions from profits like the Italians but their work, steeped in history and nobility, is unsurpassed.

yea. though some do argue that english tailoring is in a way bulkier and less refined than the italians who are very in tune with modern technology and get more refinement out of using advanced pattern cutting systems.
some prefer the more noticeable hand finishes and some others prefer a cleaner finish. but yes, there is no other street in the world dedicated to high end tailors other than savile row in london near regent street.

 

[when he does]

It's definitely a cut above. I inherited my father's suit (Gieves) and I don't expect and children I'll have to inherit my Zegna or Armani, despite the cashmere and drape. Hell my Armani from 6 years ago is starting to look dated, but I don't think a proper Savile Row suit will look dated. Strangely, I am 5 inches taller than my father but I fit in his jackets perfectly.

 

[gius]

by the way when i wrote my opinion i'm only speaking of my own experience but i haven't gone to the actual savile row. a couturier i know says there is always a market because as already said, there are special body types and tastes. and also with the technique they use, you can bring back your garment and it can be altered without any terribly noticeable changes like a weird new seam, etc. i guess you just work your way gradually, client to client, since it is a slow process and a lot of your success depends on word of mouth?
i love this way of working myself.

 

[Crying Diamonds]

^ I've never been to Savile Row either but I own a few Gieves blazers and I have several Italian pieces. I think the English tailoring is much more suited for that constant elegance that an English gentleman is associated with - the double vent giving access to the pockets shows that the suit can be worn anywhere at any time and the man will always be well dressed - during casual and business occasions.
Italian tailoring seems to be strictly directed at business and formal only, with the padded shoulder and no rear vents.

MUXU I'd be really interested to see the less obvious differences in the suits that make a lot of difference to the wearer and the general look. I can see where the bulky idea comes from just by the way the pieces are on a hanger - the English jackets almost look squat and stiff whereas the Italian seems to drape from the hanger in a relaxed manner.

I adore tailoring.

 

[gius]

you guys might like to discuss that more in another thread^
it was mentioned a bit here, in CEB forum
tailoring vs. couture

there is definitely a place in the world for bespoke tailoring, especially when you get rich clients who have, let's say, difficult body shapes to compact with just regular ready to wear luxury suits.
also with the comeback of more women's tailoring in high fashion, it might further expand the bespoke bussiness in terms of women's wear, where as it's still mainly men's wear based.

i think this would be a good push into men's as well, like being able to design something with the tailor, something not necessarily being a traditional suit jacket or shirt.

it's this kind of variety that i see more in women's tailoring or tailors for women. i only heard of two in my city but i hear there are more in NYC-- you can bring them your own designs even. i think it's wonderful.

 

[Fuuma]

^ I've never been to Savile Row either but I own a few Gieves blazers and I have several Italian pieces. I think the English tailoring is much more suited for that constant elegance that an English gentleman is associated with - the double vent giving access to the pockets shows that the suit can be worn anywhere at any time and the man will always be well dressed - during casual and business occasions.
Italian tailoring seems to be strictly directed at business and formal only, with the padded shoulder and no rear vents.

MUXU I'd be really interested to see the less obvious differences in the suits that make a lot of difference to the wearer and the general look. I can see where the bulky idea comes from just by the way the pieces are on a hanger - the English jackets almost look squat and stiff whereas the Italian seems to drape from the hanger in a relaxed manner.

I adore tailoring.

There are many styles of Italian and English bespoke tailoring; from the heavily structured to the un-padded, from form fitting to drapey. Ventless jackets aren't an Italian staple though.

There remains a small subset of the population that wants the personalization and exotic experience of bespoke but I do agree it is dwindling. Same for high quality shoes. I don't wear bespoke suits and blazers as I am into the deconstructive or quirky detailing offered by some designers but I do love myself some traditionally constructed shoes. I posted a pair of Laszlo Vass hand-lasted made to order boots I recently acquired in the "my shoes" or whatever thread if you guys are interested.

 

[tweeds]

it's worth noting that savile row is also now home to what some might call 'modern' british tailoring in the form of ozwald boateng and richard james. evisu marched in with its evisu saburo store, and bstore sits quietly at the bottom of the street with its selection of bless, ann-sofie back, etc. if one could even dichotomise clothing into 'luxury' and 'fashion' at all, there is certainly something symbolic about this apparent encroachment...

 

[eugenius]

Savile Row link in Shop Til You Drop section:
http://www.thefashionspot.com/forums/f46/guide-bespoke-savile-row-11331.html

 

[MUXU]

i remember hearing from my course director that some of the old bespoke houses are moved to a street behind it or other areas because the rent on that street is rising too much. so in a way savile row is still symbolic of luxury but the actual luxury probably moved out to varies different places.

funny little fact, back in 19th century, there were brothels situated just behind the bespoke houses, but is hidden because it is connected to the bespoke houses and no one passing by suspects it anything out of the ordinary. in those days, men went to houses to "hang out" like how people hang out in the pubs. so when a man says he's going to get a suit made, he is most likely not just getting that.

i think the ventless jackets are generally an american thing? i have noticed from old hollywood movies that some of the suits had no vent, especially from the 50s.

 

[MUXU]

i think this would be a good push into men's as well, like being able to design something with the tailor, something not necessarily being a traditional suit jacket or shirt.

it's this kind of variety that i see more in women's tailoring or tailors for women. i only heard of two in my city but i hear there are more in NYC-- you can bring them your own designs even. i think it's wonderful.

yea, women tend to like more style, more design rather than just a plain classic suit.
in a way, it is hard to say whether bespoke will do well in women's wear since the turn over rate for women's wear is much quicker and women tend to fit the garment instead of the garment fitting her.

 

[gius]

Do any of you think hand sewing is sustainable ?

I spoke with a tailor this morning and he told me their suits are made in factories. Outsourced to a local consistent factory. With that they get to focus more on "tailoring design." From the sound of what he explained to me, it seems there is no hand sewing. I did remember reading some time ago online, pad-stitching for the lapels can be done by machine but the effect is not as great.

But I wonder if that matters anymore?

It seems like the most important things in tailoring is that it is of a nice fabric, keeps its shape and doesn't wrinkle in time, and is also custom fit.
The idea of hand sewing is become completely unnecessary. The tailor told me it's a bit pretentious. And I respect his opinions since he has been in the business for a long time (2nd generation).


I know MUXU here knows what it is like to use hand sewing... and the same for myself. We both agree it adds a cleaner touch to a garment. But for a customer, or anyone who hasn't had the experience of making clothes themselves, I wonder if the hand stitches is really anything worth caring about.
Plus it makes a garment quite expensive.
It's like when you work hard at something and there is a mistake. It's the only thing you see and it's such a big deal to you but nobody else notices it. I wonder if it's similar?

 

[Crying Diamonds]

^ I think the hand-sewing is that added touch of luxury - if the stitching must be seen then it should be the finest stitching there can be, and a stitch can't be perfected using a sewing machine ?
It's just like hand-rolling on a silk scarf - it's immediately noticeable quality because you know time has been taken for someone to hand stitch it, whereas a machine sewn scarf can look immediately naff.
Hand-stitching is something that receives immediate respect from me because I know the time it takes and the problems you can have.

 

[gius]

One of the reasons I like hand sewing is because it gives me a great degree of control. It's so much easier for me. Like bemberg lining is such a pain.. I can never sew a straight line with the machine! Attaching by hand it's a breeze...
So time is the only issue usually

Machine requires so much precision..

but I agree. many times you sew by hand so that the garment doesn't have soo many stitches everywhere.. RTW garments, you use only the machine and many or most of the stitches show on the right side.
by hand you can stitch even on the right side and it's still invisible



I made this sort of comparison thread.. haute couture /women's version
http://www.thefashionspot.com/forums/f60/couture-outside-haute-couture-79597.html
The idea of the thread is if it is still alive
outside of the usual, known Paris couturiers like Chanel and Dior

I was reading some time ago one of the reasons there is less of a need for couture/tailoring is because back then the fashions were quite structured, you have the corsets, for example.. And the measurements must be individual, and precise for it to be a good fit.. and then in the 20s, 30s there came the shift dresses..and loose, straight silhouettes.. RTW was born.