The Most Overrated Designers...

[gallianostan]

Raf on the other hand… If there’s a posterboy for an overrated fashion designer who just won’t go away, it would always and forever be him. Most insufferable, most pretentious, most self-imporatnt and most joyless and utterly gormless of any designer that zaps the life, the effervescence and the energy out of fashion. But if he announced his retirement tomorrow, then good riddance.

 

[Kanzai]

Save Miuccia from this man ASAP !!! But i think she has been so clueless for years yawn, Consuelo would have been her best CO-CD not RAF IMO

 

[NakedAndAfraid]

At the moment there doesn't seem to be anything lofty or too artistic about fashion. No reason to rate it on those merits. It's akin to a commodity like electricity. Just generic clothes measured in units sold. Good for those who sell.

Maybe I'm just old and jaded, but the positioning of the question seems not really relevant currently.

 

[MulletProof]

WTF Was everyone 13yo when they joined TFS?!?!?! (...I know Mullet was like 10yo...)

The Tavi of tFS, can you imagine? 🤣 .. but nah I wasn’t that young! though there was someone who was 11! (.. and sounded 81). Crazy days! haha

One word about Hussein Chalayan: ambimorphous (2002). That’s fashion history, and the fact that he risked it all (including financial viability) by committing, for as long as he could afford, to experimentalism, will always represent an era of pure devotion and excitement for fashion design and having the bravery to question cause.. lord knows no designer questions anything these days. Not a single one of them. It’s like the premise of unveiling innovation in design for design week (just the way it’s done in art/industrial design fairs) left fashion ages ago and it’s a topic everyone would prefer not to talk about because they’re all complicit in how stagnant and corporate it all is. To say someone (such as Nicolas) who blatantly ‘borrowed’ from independent designers such as Chalayan is not overrated but somehow the one who’s out of business today received excessive ‘praise’ (which clearly amounted to nothing because, again, OOB while the other thrives as the CEO of Fashion’s McDonalds).. hmm yeah maybe one person overrating vs 1 million’s mindless ‘good’ rating means exactly the opposite….

 

[Phuel]

^^^ Bad seed Tavi LOL

Hussein was perhaps too conceptual, too devoted, and too dedicated for simple RTW. But would couture of the 2000s have been welcoming for him…??? Unfortunately, likely not: Couture was so unapologetically opulent and unabashedly decadent for his brand of concepts. His later commercial work for some brand was depressing— just looks so soul-draining for him, much like what’s happening to Lucas at Theory: Just so hollow and fashion-depression. I hope Hussein has it in him along with the financial means to return on his terms, at some time. But this current fashion era doesn’t deserve him.

Back on topic, Stella without Phoebe has to be the most overrated designer— juts like her dad is the most overrated musician. She’s high-end department-store fodder at best.

 

[MulletProof]

^ wait where did he end up? what was that brand Hussein designed for? it sounds so familiar and I remember there was something that turned me off about his work for good (post 2007 I want to say) but can’t remember a thing! 💀

Agree about Stella.. there was a brief time around 2002-2003 when she still had that ‘Chloé girl’ light-heartedness and fun but it didn’t last.. much like Proenza, Kane, she’s survived for as long as she’s had almost on some weird sense of modesty that acknowledges there will never be a unique input so gotta look everywhere for funds, except there… kind of great imo. 🤣

 

[Phuel]

^^^ Just looked it up: The sad, hollow memory may have been with his brief stint at Puma in the late-2000s, but he was all over the place during that period, including with Falke. He's a professor at the University of Applied Sciences Berlin since 2019, according to his Wiki.

 

[Lola701]

@Phuel the real question about Chalayan is what his career would have looked like without Alexandre De Betak.
Very skilled man indeed but the success of those collections came from a large part because De Betak was as hungry to succeed to.
For me, he remained one of those « fake showmen » that people liked to compare with Galliano and McQueen when I started my career in fashion. The reality is that you can remove the sets and theatrics from the two others and their work will have that much impact.

I don’t know if Christopher Kane, despite his talent, wouldn’t be seen as an overrated designer with time. Or is he one of those « burned stars » like Miguel Adrover?

 

[MulletProof]

^ never! Adrover was highly talented.. Kane just did dresses with seasonal themes. Remember when he couldn’t produce a single pair of pants to save his life?

I really don’t think BB carried Chalayan.. at all. His garments didn’t rely on elaborate productions.. that may have been the case in the mid 00s, certainly not earlier (which is origin of the hype).

 

[TianCouture]

Philo

 

[gallianostan]

miguel adrover was brilliant, i will not hear any slander

 

[Phuel]

@Phuel the real question about Chalayan is what his career would have looked like without Alexandre De Betak.
Very skilled man indeed but the success of those collections came from a large part because De Betak was as hungry to succeed to.
For me, he remained one of those « fake showmen » that people liked to compare with Galliano and McQueen when I started my career in fashion. The reality is that you can remove the sets and theatrics from the two others and their work will have that much impact.

I don’t know if Christopher Kane, despite his talent, wouldn’t be seen as an overrated designer with time. Or is he one of those « burned stars » like Miguel Adrover?

I admire Hussein's as a fashion proposal— can’t say I liked him as a designer. But I would never place him alongside the likes of McQueen and Galliano, even though it’s understandable why many would. The latters are fashion visionaries that also offer strong, classically tailored separates for women— can’t say the same for Hussein, who seems obsessed with technological advancement concepts. His ventures with more commecial/consumer brands simply didn’t translate to desirable fashion offerings; his menswear was abysmal. That sort of pre-normcore Caterpillar/Carhartt workwear sensibility just seems so… disconnected, so unconvincing from him. He seems to have found his place as a professor, and maybe even in time, as an installation artist. He's moved on from high fashion.

In retrospect, Franco Moschino always comes off overrated— and maybe even Raf’s twin— but the fun twin: They’re both fashion caricatures— just that one knows it, while the other is convinced he’s creating art. Frankly with Franco, there was very little to no fashion design, and all graphic design. He was the OG knockoff troll: Parodying everyone from Chanel to YSL. My BFF’s mum wore OG Moschino; Everything from the Chanel tweed jacket ripoff with “Expensive Jacket” embroidered on the back, to “Stop The Fashion System!” embroidered in gold on the chest of a drapey wool tee. And in retrospect, maybe he wasn’t the first to succeed with clownwear on the fashion victimz— but ti was definitely jesterwear— extremely well made tho. The new guy seems to be making a solid effort in bringing that balance of jesterwear that’s balanced with a good dose of classic essentials. I’m hoping he’s able to strengthen that trajectory because it’s absolutely giving off whiffs of easygoing charm.

 

[Alquimista]

I have such a Love/Hate relationship with the 80’s!
It was an era of terrible personal style for the most part and a lot of hideous things were shown but it was also an era of excess and creativity like no other. It was an era where HF really flourished because all the voices managed to be heard at the same time. The eco-system of fashion changed! The re-introduction of the Japanese through a new way of thinking fashion and a lot of new voices!

And 3 of my favorite designers of all time delivered masterpieces in the 80’s (Azzedine, Gianni and Karl). Obviously, Azzedine became mainstream in the 80s but Gianni! He delivered!!

And it’s weird, I have always preferred the joyful and creative naïveté of the 80’s to the very manufactured early 90’s one. We saw a lot of 80’s designers crumbled when the party was over after the Guf War.

And for a longtime, I hated Mugler and Montana too…Because they were a bit the opposite of Azzedine and Gianni. For me, the woman wasn’t always the main character in their fashion. But they are geniuses! An outstanding body of work!

It had an ethos of criativity but also of a conservative, backwards style. I love some Yve's collections from that era ( sue me) but I know that he was not challeging bourgeois women anymore. It was all very ladylike, and I think even back them it was stuffy and old fashion.

I love all the three you mentioned, specially Karl and Gianni. haha Karl was already great in the 80s but in the 90s he really let loose and deconstructed Chanel (and all ideas about chic, elegance, etc).

 

[donyan]

I admire Hussein's as a fashion proposal— can’t say I liked him as a designer. But I would never place him alongside the likes of McQueen and Galliano, even though it’s understandable why many would. The latters are fashion visionaries that also offer strong, classically tailored separates for women— can’t say the same for Hussein, who seems obsessed with technological advancement concepts. His ventures with more commecial/consumer brands simply didn’t translate to desirable fashion offerings; his menswear was abysmal. That sort of pre-normcore Caterpillar/Carhartt workwear sensibility just seems so… disconnected, so unconvincing from him. He seems to have found his place as a professor, and maybe even in time, as an installation artist. He's moved on from high fashion.

In retrospect, Franco Moschino always comes off overrated— and maybe even Raf’s twin— but the fun twin: They’re both fashion caricatures— just that one knows it, while the other is convinced he’s creating art. Frankly with Franco, there was very little to no fashion design, and all graphic design. He was the OG knockoff troll: Parodying everyone from Chanel to YSL. My BFF’s mum wore OG Moschino; Everything from the Chanel tweed jacket ripoff with “Expensive Jacket” embroidered on the back, to “Stop The Fashion System!” embroidered in gold on the chest of a drapey wool tee. And in retrospect, maybe he wasn’t the first to succeed with clownwear on the fashion victimz— but ti was definitely jesterwear— extremely well made tho. The new guy seems to be making a solid effort in bringing that balance of jesterwear that’s balanced with a good dose of classic essentials. I’m hoping he’s able to strengthen that trajectory because it’s absolutely giving off whiffs of easygoing charm.

I always liked looking at Chalayan’s shows because they were different and unique, but never have I been inclined to buy something. It always felt complicated to me, a concept in search of a garment.
It’s sad to see him in a situation where people seem to forget just how exciting and new his shows felt at his peak. but in hindsight it seems fairly logical. There just never was a proper proposal in terms of fashion. I still miss him tho

 

[donyan]

The more I think of it the more difficult it gets for me to decide on who’s an overrated designer. What are the terms to judge on? Isn’t it often a question of visibility? Would we even speak about the guy at Nina Ricci if he wasn’t at Nina Ricci? Is Jacquemus overrated simply because he became so big ? Wouldn’t we all find him charming and true to himself if he hadn’t become so huge?
If Christian Wijnants tomorrow turned into Dries, would he be overrated or underrated? Is Virginie Viard overrated? Nobody here seems to like her.
I think it would be much easier for me to say who’s underrated, maybe that would make a good thread.
I loved Nicolas Ghesquiere at Balenciaga but don’t at all get his LV, does that make him overrated?

 

[Phuel]

^^^ Frankly, whom is overrated in this current era comes down to personal preference. Superdesigners like Nicolas and Hedi employed by super-conglomerates— and although nowhere close to their leagues, this includes Kim Jones and Sabato, will always be overexposed and super-overrated in all their propagandized exploits, simply because of their mega-corporation allegiance demands it. That’s inescapable for them and for the fashion consumer. Whether people can and willing to pierce through that thick veil of marketing propaganda— and this includes all media: Korean Harper's Bazaar and Esquire are simply nothing more than 400pg issues ofadvertisements with their full-blown, relentless, aggressive advertorials for these mega Superbrands, comes down to the consumer’s own taste and dedicated fashion education. Some only care for bluechip brands and can’t see beyond the glitter of logos/monograms paraded around on Supers— just like many on this forum can’t let go of the diseased and dying carcass that’s Vogue and keep on expecting this tiresome brand to somehow be great again come every new month; or the even more hilarious worship of models… Post something rotten about a model, and someone somewhere, somehow will make it personal and attack you for it. At this point in time with the monster machine of corporation, even a talent as Nicolas has to be overexposed, overhyped, overrated— because his handlers demand it.

One of the ways to fairly argue who’s overrated, without making it personal, is to judge a designer’s/brand's career from the beginning and where it is now. Someone who’s passed— like with Franco, provides an easier assessment, without personal preference getting in the way. With Franco, once the vibrant circus color-palette; the prints; the clever, cheeky slogans are removed from the equation, Moschino’s fashion designs are indistinguishable from the greater designers he’s borrowing from of the time: Yves, Karl's Chanel, Ungaro, Ferre etc etc. There’s no fashion design after all with Franco. And for that, he’s overrated as an ideal of a fashion designer. ….I wouldn’t touch Olivier’s Balmain with a 10 mile pole, but there’s still a very distinct vision of fashion (as gaudy and tacky as it may be) that he’s committed to, even when he borrows from another designer, he always ends up making it his own. Everything about his Balmain goes against every fibre of my personal preference— but, his is a strong and distinct vision of fashion that, like Hussein’s, is admirable.

 

[velvetandsilk]

the real question about Chalayan is what his career would have looked like without Alexandre De Betak.

When I started interesting fashion 2008/2009 I was fascinated him. I read most of his interviews because I discovered that he didn't even have a small shop in London, which seemed strange to me. He opened the store just before the pandemic, but after the pandemic he gave up fashion completely. The interviews with him and the people who worked with him revealed the image of a person who is not interested in selling clothes. In fact, for me he is a sculptor. His most famous works are an attempt to present how an unusual material will interact with the human body. He never tried to commercialize these ideas even slightly. His other clothes were well made, but had nothing that said he made them.

 

[susseinmcswanny]

I'm gonna say Miuccia Prada. I really wonder how much of her success was due to the people around her. I know she knows how to look good, and of course she could be great at being the head and final say of creative decisions and editing, but I really do wonder...

 

[jeanclaude]

I'm gonna say Miuccia Prada. I really wonder how much of her success was due to the people around her. I know she knows how to look good, and of course she could be great at being the head and final say of creative decisions and editing, but I really do wonder...

Manuela Pavesi was the real Prada...

 

[Kanzai]

^ Miuccia Prada hired Raf for the CO-CD position, which says a lot about her vision and taste, lol. I don't understand why she gets more praise than people like Rei Kawakubo, Azzedine, Giorgio, Castiglioni,...