The Tennis Thread

[Chaky]

Because you don't get paid for 'doing your best', you get paid for getting the end result. Men have to play an average 2-3 hour match, women play an average 1-1.5 match, yet their salary is the same. In other words, men get paid at half the rate women do.

But tennis players aren't paid by the hour; they are paid for winning a match, however long that might take them.

It's ridiculous to compare the AO men's final to the women's as an argument for unequal pay. You've got Djokovic and Nadal who are frankly two of the slowest players on tour between points. Azarenka was on a tear. What can you do? It happens sometimes. How about the women's semis? They weren't so straightforward.

You can't just pick one particular day/tournament as the proof for your argument as someone will come along and find another example that disproves it. For example, I remember in particular the Wimbledon 2005 women's final between Venus and Lindsay lasted longer than the men's.

Does a longer match necessarily mean a more entertaining match?

None of this takes into account the training and preparation that players go into. Do the women train less than the men? Shouldn't they be fairly compensated for that?

 

[CielDeLit]

^ agreed on every point.

I think Chaky said it all, women train just as much, and play as many matches, they do the same job, hence the equal pay. And tennis doesn't pay by the hour, besides longer doesn't mean better.

Because you don't get paid for 'doing your best', you get paid for getting the end result. Men have to play an average 2-3 hour match, women play an average 1-1.5 match, yet their salary is the same. In other words, men get paid at half the rate women do.

But it's not because they don't want to play longer, they just can't. If men play longer it's because their bodies can handle it. Why should they be rewarded more just because nature gave them more strength ?

 

[MyNameIs]

LOL, I don't want to get into this debate, but justifying it by "they do their best" is laughable at best. And men and women don't spend as much time as men do, because well, they have to train to be able to play five sets if necessary and have to actually play those sets, while women only train for three sets and play no more than three sets.

Chaky, I wasn't at all talking about AO 12 finals, I was talking on average. Having to win 3 sets takes longer than having to win 2 sets. The fact that they don't technically get paid by hour is beside the point.

Interesting article on it too
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/tennis/not-all-things-can-be-equal/story-fn77kxzt-1226257832129

 

[CielDeLit]

LOL, I don't want to get into this debate, but justifying it by "they do their best" is laughable at best.

That wasn't my point actually but whatever. So what happens for short boring men finals, would they still get paid more ?

 

[Scott]

erm....neither women nor men train simply for the sets they play,they train to keep themselves at peak physical form for a long,arduous tour season.

also the argument is moot. honestly,when the men play best of 3 the majority of the season,you think that's the women's fault? to me i think it says more about how behind they are with the men. i think if they wanted to balance things out they would allow the men to at least play best of three till the semifinal rounds of the majors and tour finals.

 

[Chaky]

Interesting article on it too
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/tennis/not-all-things-can-be-equal/story-fn77kxzt-1226257832129

The interesting point that article makes is about what entertainment value do you place on a men's match vs a women's match. Unfortunately it's something that's easy to argue about yet difficult to quantify.

If Grand Slams were not joint events, i.e. a separate one for men and one for women and held on different dates then would the prize money be the same? Unlikely. Why? Because the prize fund generally comes from sponsorship and the crowds that are attracted. And simply put, men's tennis is more popular in most places. More people through the gate and willing to pay more for their ticket. But with the event combined as it is, it's not so easy to separate and say who deserves what. On most days apart from semis and finals the spectator has paid for a seat and watches men's and women's matches in succession.

The journalist loses points with me writing this:

This is not about putting down women's tennis, which has many brilliant skilful players and great characters. They are an integral part of what makes the tournament such a success every year.
Where would we all be if we couldn't debate over the water cooler about Serena Williams's latest outfit? Or if Maria or Ana Ivanovic is the best looking player in the game?

Yeah it's not about how the women are playing. It's what they were wearing or who is the hottest that is integral to the tour.

I know some of the women say they would be willing to play five sets. Hasn't this been tried before in the past? I'm fairly sure of it but I think it was before I really started to follow tennis avidly.

 

[Scott]

well from 1983-1998 the final of the tour championships were best of 5 sets for the women. but it rarely ever occurred though 5 sets. i think the only one that comes to my mind is one they often talk about between graf and huber. however they say it was just painful to watch. i just think the whole notion of 5 sets would be a total disaster. women often have consistency issues so you'd likely see a lot of up and down sets at 1 or LOVE.

as for that blurb,you see,this is exactly the reason women get so much flak because people like that always focus and emphasize the most shallow thing. and like so much out there people read and hear those comments and like puppets it reverberates. was this editor being ironic in his comment because it definitely shallowly contradicts his opening comment.

 

[MyNameIs]

Can someone please tell me what's going on with the Indian Wells tournament? I thought it was scheduled for this week, but I don't think there are any games scheduled to be played and I can't find any information on it. Was it cancelled? Moved?

 

[Scott]

^main draw officially begins tomorrow. iw and miami technically always begins in the middle of the first week. first two days of the week are reserved for qualifying rounds for the men and women with the final round of the men's in the middle of first day action.

 

[Scott]

petra and vika have confirmed they will be playing doubles together this week at IW! how splendid is this? well the potential sounds extraordinary anyway. it just sounds like a dream pairing for the WTA to have two recent major champs and the biggest and brightest future competitors. they not only faced one another more than anybody last year deep in big events,but quite possibly the two best players in recent months and future rivals,i might add.

i hope it's not just a one-off but perhaps something we may see more of in the months and years to come.

 

[Chaky]

I think we can safely say Maria doesn't have a particular interest in her fellow players.

 

[Scott]

i just saw this on the wta facebook page. to be honest,i think it confirms what we've all suspected about her......how much she really does isolate herself from the rest of the players. come on,she's around these girls over 200 days a year,she should know something about one of them.

 

[kournikov]

She chooses not to, and that's her. She's a great player. The Williams Sister's did the same. At least Maria's not pretending to know them that close. She's an athlete. The same wouldn't be expected from a male player.

 

[Scott]

funnily i would think given the friendly nature of most of the top guys they probably do know something about their personalities.

the irony in the williams sisters though is that venus particularly is or was the head of the player's council for almost a decade so i do think she was a little bit more involved with her peers. more than perceived. and serena is friends with a few of the players.....kim,sveta,caro,sam,victoria.....

listen i'm not saying maria is unfriendly just that she tends to come across rather aloof. i mean we saw this week twice caroline trying so hard to engage her and it just seemed somewhat lost on her. i still think she should know a little something about some of them. i mean outside the practice sessions,she around these girls most of the year.

 

[Chaky]

I can understand maybe not wanting to have too many friendships within the top level of players because I suppose it can be difficult to put that aside when you are trying to beat them. But to not even remember who is in the top ten is kinda disrespectful I think. Maria does have this aloof persona which probably only serves to make Caro look silly when she tries to engage with her.

Live coverage of Indian Wells absolutely sucks in the first week. Woke up this morning to find Murray had gone out to Guillermo Garcia-Lopez. That's a devastating loss for him, especially after the great wins he just had over Djokovic and Berdych. Guess this tournament is not for him. Remember he lost to Donald Young in the same round last year. Such an opportunity to pick up point and close the gap on the top 3 and he's wasted it.

 

[kournikov]

Plus, Maria Sharapova is a celebrity amongst her tennis peers. Not saying that she shouldn't get to know them, she just might be even more busier than them. She's cool with a lot of the Russian players of course.

Just curious, has everyone else seen the pictures of Gemma Ward and Serena Williams together, and then another one with Natasha Poly and Maria Sharapova together?

 

[Not Plain Jane]

I can understand maybe not wanting to have too many friendships within the top level of players because I suppose it can be difficult to put that aside when you are trying to beat them. But to not even remember who is in the top ten is kinda disrespectful I think. Maria does have this aloof persona which probably only serves to make Caro look silly when she tries to engage with her.

Live coverage of Indian Wells absolutely sucks in the first week. Woke up this morning to find Murray had gone out to Guillermo Garcia-Lopez. That's a devastating loss for him, especially after the great wins he just had over Djokovic and Berdych. Guess this tournament is not for him. Remember he lost to Donald Young in the same round last year. Such an opportunity to pick up point and close the gap on the top 3 and he's wasted it.

Try "Live Score Hunters" and "Streaming" - usually I can find a stream on that site.

Yes, too bad about Muzza losing but at least he doesn't lose any points.

 

[Scott]

congrats to ana ivanovic! her biggest win in a while. i love a good redemption story and it really seems like ana is picking herself back up again......not without its stumbles but she's been so determined to get back.

 

[Chaky]

Try "Live Score Hunters" and "Streaming" - usually I can find a stream on that site.

I do use those a bit but sometimes the feeds are bad. Nicer to watch it on TV. But my understanding was there was no coverage of any kind until at least the second round. Not even some basic single camera livestream. They didn't start TV coverage here until round two or three. For such a large tournament it just seems surprising.

Sounds like this flu epidemic in Indian Wells keeps claiming more victims. Mike Bryan just withdrew. I'm hearing Kvitova and Hantuchova are both saying they caught it.

 

[Chaky]

So, some interesting results in the past couple of days. I would have gone along with the majority in expecting a Nole-Rafa final. And now look!

I saw most of Federer-Del Potro. I was wondering if the Hawkeye team were Federer fans. Delpo challenges Fed's serve saying it was out. Calls Hawkeye. It's not working. Original call stands. Delpo is incensed and the rest of the match goes down the pan. I honestly thought he might win this one after getting closer and closer the last few times they played. But he let himself get derailed.

I only saw the end of Isner-Djokovic but that is a huge win for the American. I'm guessing Nole didn't play too well by his standards but Giant John can always be dangerous with that serve. He's into the Top 10.

And I stayed up late last night to watch Fedal v28. Conditions definitely in Roger's favour. Nadal just couldn't handle the wind at all. I was pretty surprised at just how poorly he coped. Drama with it starting to rain at match point. But how awesome it was to see Fed stand up when the rain stopped and serve an ace to finish! It's his first win over Rafa on outdoor hardcourt since 2005!