The Vegetarian & Vegan Thread

[Neely]

Hello everyone, so I'm slowly developing a more vegetarian lifestyle; this summer I cut out chicken and turkey from my diet (and I haven't had red meat in over six or seven years). I still eat fish occasionally but I can definitely see myself eventually cutting that out too. I just have a quick couple of questions for the vegan and vegetarian fashion lovers out there...

Obviously being a part of the fashionspot community, you must have a keen sense of the fashion world and its use of leather and fur. How do you cope knowing designers that you admire use leather and\or fur in their collections? Are there other animal conscious designers out there like Stella McCartney, because I would be very curious to know thanks! And I really admired Cloudyshambles comments on the leather jacket, it was something I could relate to and glad to know I'm not the only one who feels guilty about past purchases.

 

[Ashcottmanor]

As far as I know, vegetarians do drink cow's milk and eat chicken eggs. I think for vegans (IMHO) it's more about where and how we get our milk and eggs that vegan do not support. (This is what I believe.) Sure, getting milk from a cow doesn't hurt the cow, but living in awful conditions, pumped full of hormones and steroids or what have you, etc. I cannot support.

I just wanted to add to this and say that a lot of vegans don't drink milk because there are more plant based foods that can give you more calcium than milk. And essentially as humans, we don't have a genuine need for milk....if you think about it, who drinks milk constantly? Calf's and babies and why do they drink it? Because they need to grown and fatten up. That's why when we are old enough we switch to solid foods as do baby cows. We don't need it anymore. For me, it's not a substantial need. And I am allergic.

Eggs are a different story, they're full of cholesterol and hormone, as is milk. I've never done well with dairy so for me taking it out and being vegetarian was basically being vegan so that's why I did it. But everyone is different and should make their own choices on the matter.

 

[Andrea.RL]

Thank you ashcottmanor and papa_levante
I went out on internet so i was fully informed on the subject so i could decide whether or not i wanted to eat eggs and drink milk.
I knew about the captivity situation and more or less about the hormones, but not at that extend. It kind of broke my heart (lol, i fell weird saying it this way...) to imagine some twenty animals that could barely move in their cages. And i was disgusted when i read they took off the chickens becks/beeks/beecks(???) so they wouldnt hurt each other.
I think ill avoid them as much as possible, and choose carefully which eggs and what milk i buy if i do.

 

[papa_levante]

Neely,

How do you cope knowing designers that you admire use leather and\or fur in their collections? Are there other animal conscious designers out there like Stella McCartney, because I would be very curious to know thanks! And I really admired Cloudyshambles comments on the leather jacket, it was something I could relate to and glad to know I'm not the only one who feels guilty about past purchases.

For me, it doesn't matter. As long as I don't buy them, I am not supporting their use of fur/leather. But, I do own a few secondhand items. But I will only buy secondhand. As far as avoiding leather entirely (like the interior of my car for example), that is a different story. The more difficult it is to avoid, the less likely I am to do it.

Today I watched a clip from Guatemala. It was a small family farm and they killed their own chickens to make their dinner. Now, of course I was disgusted. But, this isn't a factory farm. The family raises their own chickens from when they're chicks, and when they're ready to be eaten, they eat them.

For me, that's different. I 100% agree that humans should eat meat. But, the way we get our meat is a different story. "They're just animals" is not a legitimate excuse. This family didn't use inhumane methods of killing their chickens; they are a family just trying to sustain themselves and their appetites.

 

[Lilliana]

^ oh I feel like such a spoil sport, but there are a few facts about milk that just have to be added. It's hardly more ethical than eating meat imo. but I completely agree with ashcottmanor and all she mentioned.
A cow just gives milk when she is awaiting a calf or has just given birth to one, I think most people are not aware of that. Under natural conditions a cow gives birth to 3 - 5 calves during her livespan (approx. 20 years). Now if you take from that what is left after the calf has fed I personally don't see a problem. But that would be hardly enough for the average milk consume of a single person, and the price for milk would be much higher.
The reality is unfortunately that milk cows are artificially put into a state of constant pregnancy so that they get calfs all year long so that she gives more milk. That makes a lot of calfs. The strongest ones are kept and bred as milkcows, the majority is given away to become meat. 80% of all 'meat-cows' are a byproduct of milk production. Alone in Great Britain a quarter million calfs from milkcows are killed and turned into vealproducts. not to mention the highbred milkcows who have enormous udders that are hurting them constantly.

 

[Lilliana]

Neely,

Today I watched a clip from Guatemala. It was a small family farm and they killed their own chickens to make their dinner. Now, of course I was disgusted. But, this isn't a factory farm. The family raises their own chickens from when they're chicks, and when they're ready to be eaten, they eat them.

For me, that's different. I 100% agree that humans should eat meat. But, the way we get our meat is a different story. "They're just animals" is not a legitimate excuse. This family didn't use inhumane methods of killing their chickens; they are a family just trying to sustain themselves and their appetites.

but don't you think that killing in itself is inhumane? Does it really make such a difference how you treat an animal that it suddenly makes it tolerable to take it's life? then why don't we eat our pets? (sorry for the polemic stance) but honestly what makes their live more valuable than that of a pig which is averagely more intelligent than a dog? that it tastes better or isn't as pretty?
I'm not blaming the family in Guatemala, they are in a completely different situation than we are, but I just don't quite understand the reasoning.

I just realized that I might sound a bit like a radical vegan, which I am not. I have no problem with my friends eating meat in front of me and such, though I am lately strangely appalled by the smell of it. I just believe in harming the environment and other living beings as little as possible without loosing all the joys in life and a certain hedonistic fun. but when I think it through I find that animals are the most harmed elements in our society. It is clear that they can feel pain, certain emotions and have a level of intelligence, nevertheless our society treats them like insensate things apart from a few races that are often romantically idealized. All because humans supposedly need meat, and yet each medical study - also longterm studies - affirms that vegetarians and vegans are just as healthy as omnivores. Becoming vegan was not an emotional decision for me but a logical one.

 

[papa_levante]

but don't you think that killing in itself is inhumane? Does it really make such a difference how you treat an animal that it suddenly makes it tolerable to take it's life? then why don't we eat our pets? (sorry for the polemic stance) but honestly what makes their live more valuable than that of a pig which is averagely more intelligent than a dog? that it tastes better or isn't as pretty?
I'm not blaming the family in Guatemala, they are in a completely different situation than we are, but I just don't quite understand the reasoning.

Oooo, good point. Well, the family did have dogs and a parrot. And I actually thought, "Why don't they just eat the parrot too?" My mother is from Korea and has eaten dog before. Some countries eat cats, and some countries even eat the placenta. But, I won't try and fight the norms of what countries do or don't eat.

I sometimes think of it this way:
- are there vegans in Africa? Where food is scarce, do African make such decisions?
- since the beginning of time, what did the first people eat?

Meat is alright to eat as long as we are smart about it. Like many people switching over to organic fruits and vegetables because they are pesticide-free, I feel we are slowing moving towards the same with animal: cage-free, vegetarian-free, no added hormones, etc.

Becoming vegan was not an emotional decision for me but a logical one.

That's lovely.

yet each medical study - also longterm studies - affirms that vegetarians and vegans are just as healthy as omnivores.

But only if we make sure of it! My friend Nikki is a vegan but all she eats is oatmeal with brown sugar because it's cheap she says.

 

[Georgi]

I've been vegetarian (with occasional fish) for a long time and just in the past 2 months have gone raw. I still eat sushi and herring. Giving up bread was the hardest part until I found Manna bread, which altho not completely raw, is baked at low enough temp to preserve enzymes and vitamins that are usually destroyed by heat. It actually tastes good and is moist and naturally sweet, not like cardboard :

http://mannaorganicbakery.com/

 

[jilljilljill]

Thank you ashcottmanor and papa_levante
I went out on internet so i was fully informed on the subject so i could decide whether or not i wanted to eat eggs and drink milk.
I knew about the captivity situation and more or less about the hormones, but not at that extend. It kind of broke my heart (lol, i fell weird saying it this way...) to imagine some twenty animals that could barely move in their cages. And i was disgusted when i read they took off the chickens becks/beeks/beecks(???) so they wouldnt hurt each other.
I think ill avoid them as much as possible, and choose carefully which eggs and what milk i buy if i do.

it's hard to give up dairy, but have you ever considered a lot of great dairy alternatives? some nut cheese recipes rival cheese! you can make a mean alfredo sauce out of cashews or a pesto sauce out of macadamia nuts. soy and almond milk are tasty, and they don't leave your stomach and body feeling terrible. i just interviewed a talented vegan/macrobiotic cook for my blog and she left a really simple cheese sauce recipe, along with a few great book suggestions. here's the link to my entry:

http://macrofashion.wordpress.com/2...berkshire-vegan-a-simple-cashew-cheese-sauce/

i was also inspired by the cheese e-book by russell james:

http://www.therawchef.com/products

though i haven't tried his recipes out, i've been reading good reviews on that and am probably going to try some stuff out next month!

 

[Neely]

For me, it doesn't matter. As long as I don't buy them, I am not supporting their use of fur/leather. But, I do own a few secondhand items. But I will only buy secondhand. As far as avoiding leather entirely (like the interior of my car for example), that is a different story. The more difficult it is to avoid, the less likely I am to do it.

Thanks papa_levante for your thoughts! I agree I definitely support buying secondhand leather as oppose to new since I'd rather see those items reused and reloved.

 

[cloudyshambles]

Hello everyone, so I'm slowly developing a more vegetarian lifestyle; this summer I cut out chicken and turkey from my diet (and I haven't had red meat in over six or seven years). I still eat fish occasionally but I can definitely see myself eventually cutting that out too. I just have a quick couple of questions for the vegan and vegetarian fashion lovers out there...

Obviously being a part of the fashionspot community, you must have a keen sense of the fashion world and its use of leather and fur. How do you cope knowing designers that you admire use leather and\or fur in their collections? Are there other animal conscious designers out there like Stella McCartney, because I would be very curious to know thanks! And I really admired Cloudyshambles comments on the leather jacket, it was something I could relate to and glad to know I'm not the only one who feels guilty about past purchases.

thank you, i'm flattered!

considering my issue with the leather jacket... i decided to return it! i got it one week ago and i've been thinking about this issue every day! i just couldn't shake off this feeling of slight hypocrisy and realised that i was trying to justify keeping it but could not convince myself lol i read more about how leather is made and the fact that it's not just a byproduct of the meat industry but rather a deciding factor as well.

i know, i've already mentioned that i still use a few things (partly) made of leather that i got long before i turned vegetarian, but buying leather products with the knowledge i have now just feels different and wrong... i just can't justify it. however, i decided to use these old products less and even sell most of them.

i hope my father still has the receipt for the jacket and won't feel hurt or something, but i don't think so ^^
(having made that decision, i actually feel relieved now! jeez, so much thought put into a piece of clothing...)

 

[Palssie]

I sometimes think of it this way:
- are there vegans in Africa? Where food is scarce, do African make such decisions?
- since the beginning of time, what did the first people eat?

Of course there are. Africa is a huge continent, not some far off jungle or desert with a few bush people I am African and I am vegetarian, almost vegan. In fact, in the parts of Africa I'm sure you're thinking about, the villages live mostly on crops and sometimes fish.
To answer your second question, the American Dietetic Association notes that "most of mankind for most of human history has lived on vegetarian or near-vegetarian diets."

Here are my reasons for not eating flesh:

Meat consumption has quadrupled in the last 50 years and the meat industry is the number one cause of global warming. A 10 acre farm can support 60 people growing soybeans, 24 people growing wheat, 10 people growing corn, but only two producing cattle. Studies have also shown that vegetarians actually get a more optimal amount of protein and it is easier to digest than animal protein. Animal protein on the other hand comes with all of the growth hormones, antibiotics, dioxins, and a plethora of other drugs that are fed to animals in order salve the unnatural conditions of factory farming.

Factory farming is the number one cause of water pollution in the world! As well as number one cause of air pollution, and number one cause of loss of biodiversity. Furthermore, the pollution and greenhouse gases produced from factory farming are 40% more destructive than all transportation on Earth combined.. and we all know what a fuss they make about gas emissions from vehicles!

Meat-eaters: have claws
Herbivores: no claws
Humans: no claws

Meat-eaters: have no skin pores and perspire through the tongue
Herbivores: perspire through skin pores
Humans: perspire through skin pores

Meat-eaters: have sharp front teeth for tearing, with no flat molar teeth for grinding
Herbivores: no sharp front teeth, but flat rear molars for grinding
Humans: no sharp front teeth, but flat rear molars for grinding

Meat-eaters: have intestinal tract that is only 3 times their body length so that rapidly decaying meat can pass through quickly
Herbivores: have intestinal tract 10-12 times their body length.
Humans: have intestinal tract 10-12 times their body length.

Meat-eaters: have strong hydrochloric acid in stomach to digest meat
Herbivores: have stomach acid that is 20 times weaker than that of a meat-eater
Humans: have stomach acid that is 20 times weaker than that of a meat-eater

Meat-eaters: salivary glands in mouth not needed to pre-digest grains and fruits.
Herbivores: well-developed salivary glands which are necessary to pre-digest grains and fruits
Humans: well-developed salivary glands, which are necessary to pre-digest, grains and fruits

Meat-eaters: have acid saliva with no enzyme ptyalin to pre-digest grains
Herbivores: have alkaline saliva with ptyalin to pre-digest grains
Humans: have alkaline saliva with ptyalin to pre-digest grains

Since we cannot digest meat in the intended the way carnivores can, we have rampant heart disease, hypertension, and colon and other cancers. In the colon, undigested proteins putrefy, undigested carbohydrates ferment, and undigested fats turn rancid. This causes toxicity, and these toxins then seep through the intestinal wall and get into the blood stream, which eventually leads to even more health problems.

And my most simple reason of all.. I wouldn't want an animal to eat me, so I don't eat them.

 

[Marjon]

Same as Georgi here. I'm also a vegetarian but sometimes I do eat fish.

And Palssie, thank you for this 'article'. Very interesting.

 

[Neely]

Thank you Palssie, so informative! I didn't realize how much our bodies were made not to consume meat

 

[CarolineRose]

I'm not vegetarian but I live with two of them and I'm constantly amazed by how many amazing vegetarian recipes there are on the internet! I don't cook meat myself so it's been so helpful to find a few good food blogs and then adapt their recipes. I would go veg except for that I'm very anemic and I've never been able to get enough iron without eating red meat AND taking insanely high prescription iron supplements. Some weeks I forget to eat at least three servings of meat and my energy level plummets.
I made this yesterday without the bacon and it was unbelievably delicious. Substituting for meat is easy once you're used to it
http://www.lottieanddoof.com/2010/07/pasta-with-fresh-corn-pesto/

 

[Andrea.RL]

I know im late in my answer, but yummm macadamian based pesto sounds soooo good!
I loved normal pesto, im kind of surprised to hear its not vegetarian. Im just starting to figure out what is and not. Does anyone have a site or a list where they put all the ingredients that are animal based? Im having a hard time with nutella since i loved that... In a way its good that i cant have that. Do you guys know if nesquik powder is veg?
(ohh and yayy, i tasted chickpeas and liked it, so i may eventually go for the real vegetarian experience at some point When ill get used other veg proteins )

Also ready the post about why we "shouldnt" eat meat, it made me think about this blog that posted about something in the same style: let's say everybody does become vegetarian and vegan (even though that is not likely to happen ^-^') what WOULD happen? Would there be the same number of animals? Would there be a lot more? If so, that wouldnt make more crops since they would need more space to live andthey would need food too so, that doesnt mean more produced fruit, vegetables etc Also would that break the food chain in a way..?

idk, those are just thoughts. In any case that still doesnt mean animals are meant to be paired with baked potatoes and relish, or treated like lesser creatures.

 

[ilaughead]

^The way I see it, we wouldn't have any reason to breed and raise so many animals traditionally used for food (cattle, pigs, chickens, etc.) so there would be far less of them. That way, the world would theoretically need way less food. The food chain wouldn't be broken either way, though, since pre-food animals and humans aren't really part of any real food chain.

 

[Andrea.RL]

I had read the possibility of there being less animals, but it didnt click in as to why... ' Thanks for clearing that one up!

 

[Neely]

Wow, I'm going to come off as totally naive, but I didn't realize that rennet/whey powder is found in so many products that I had assumed were vegetarian!

I had just read Andrea.RL's post about how nutella isn't veg and I was so puzzled at first, thinking "what, of course nutella is vegetarian, it's just hazelnuts and milk". But after googling for the last hour, to my horror I have found that nutella and certain yogurts and cheeses are certainly not vegetarian!

And I have to say that I feel a bit cheated to say the least. I absolutely had no idea, but I guess it will teach me to be more aware of products and their ingredient lists. I now know that going vegetarian isn't as simple as cutting out meat. Has anyone else gone through this in their first stages of becoming vegetarian or vegan? I feel much more skeptical to eat out now, but I shouldn't beat myself up for it, nobody's perfect.

 

[YoninahAliza]

^ The bit about nutella is really disappointing! and rather misleading too! You would just assume that its veg but it certainly isn't.... what a shame.