Victoria's Secret To Drop Tv Fashion Show

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Originally posted by plasticine20@Apr 11th, 2004 - 8:32 pm
I say that if you don't like it, don't watch it. Simple as that. I am female and I DO like to watch the show. If they're not televising it for business reasons, that's fine with me. But if they're cancelling it because a small percentage just doesn't like it, well then that's ridiculous. I don't appreciate it when people are basically trying to control what I watch.

My only complaint about the show is that it has become increasingly cheesy throughout the years. :innocent:
oh ...i've done better than that...i was actually invited to the show the last two years...and i declined the invitation...you can be sure i didn't watch it...but it's on every entertainment show as well...the media coverage is obscene...all because of women in their panties and bras...

i personally know big models who have turned down very lucrative bookings with victoria's secret because they didn't want to end up the object of some guys affection when he's alone with himself in the bathroom... :innocent:

i just think it would be great if these ladies could make the kind of money they do WITHOUT taking their clothes off...a woman is compensated monetarily for parading around without any clothes on...what does that sound like...

and please...let's stop calling it a 'fashion show'...c'mon, there's really no 'fashion' involved here...just women in silly fantasy costumes...you're more likely to find that stuff they wear in a fetish shop than in your local VS at the mall...

i have no problem with women being sexy...but that whole show has been nothing but a jiggle-fest... :shock:

:innocent:

and let's just be clear...there is no FCC censorship here...VS pulled the show themselves...and i think it was a smart business move considering the current mood of the american viewing public...they clearly know what's good for them...
 
Gisele was amazing in this show :woot:
She is the star of the campaigns of pub of the mark :blush:
 
Originally posted by plasticine20@Apr 11th, 2004 - 8:32 pm
I say that if you don't like it, don't watch it. Simple as that. I am female and I DO like to watch the show. If they're not televising it for business reasons, that's fine with me. But if they're cancelling it because a small percentage just doesn't like it, well then that's ridiculous. I don't appreciate it when people are basically trying to control what I watch.

My only complaint about the show is that it has become increasingly cheesy throughout the years. :innocent:
100% correct i mean let them ban those country music shows that send some of us to sleep!!
I dont think its cheesy at all though
 
Originally posted by softgrey@Apr 12th, 2004 - 1:10 am
and let's just be clear...there is no FCC censorship here...VS pulled the show themselves
I think this deserves to be said again.
But truthfully - good riddance! :yuk:
 
Originally posted by softgrey+Apr 11th, 2004 - 10:10 pm--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(softgrey @ Apr 11th, 2004 - 10:10 pm)</div><div class='quotemain'> <!--QuoteBegin-plasticine20@Apr 11th, 2004 - 8:32 pm
I say that if you don't like it, don't watch it.  Simple as that.  I am female and I DO like to watch the show.  If they're not televising it for business reasons, that's fine with me.  But if they're cancelling it because a small percentage just doesn't like it, well then that's ridiculous.  I don't appreciate it when people are basically trying to control what I watch.

My only complaint about the show is that it has become increasingly cheesy throughout the years.  :innocent:
oh ...i've done better than that...i was actually invited to the show the last two years...and i declined the invitation...you can be sure i didn't watch it...but it's on every entertainment show as well...the media coverage is obscene...all because of women in their panties and bras...

i personally know big models who have turned down very lucrative bookings with victoria's secret because they didn't want to end up the object of some guys affection when he's alone with himself in the bathroom... :innocent:

i just think it would be great if these ladies could make the kind of money they do WITHOUT taking their clothes off...a woman is compensated monetarily for parading around without any clothes on...what does that sound like...

and please...let's stop calling it a 'fashion show'...c'mon, there's really no 'fashion' involved here...just women in silly fantasy costumes...you're more likely to find that stuff they wear in a fetish shop than in your local VS at the mall...

i have no problem with women being sexy...but that whole show has been nothing but a jiggle-fest... :shock:

:innocent:

and let's just be clear...there is no FCC censorship here...VS pulled the show themselves...and i think it was a smart business move considering the current mood of the american viewing public...they clearly know what's good for them... [/b][/quote]
I do agree slightly with both your views

-If you don't like, dont watch.
- The women do go around in flimsy things, its not necessarily fashion, "technically" its not fashion really...and that yeah, they end up as some many sickos fantasy. :wacko:

Thing though is the show and the outfits are over the top, but I see more nudity in regular fashion shows than I ever saw on VS. I've seen countless exposed breast during fashion week when I have never seen anything close to it in the VS show

I do like to watch the show, but I'm kinda a lingerie gal. :blush: So I don't have a problem with it being "flimsy", but I can totally see where softgrey is comming from. A womans body is beautiful, but when she parades around like that its like she practically asking herself to be plastered on every lonely guys fantasy wall and that is kinda degrading.

It's stupid if they pull it just because of that Janet stunt... If they are afraid of broadcasting to a big local channel like ABC,UPN etc, why don't they just broadcast on style or E! where the obviously fashion inclined person is the one really watching...not some sicko man, or a lil kid seeing way too much for his age.
 
Originally posted by softgrey+Apr 12th, 2004 - 1:10 am--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(softgrey @ Apr 12th, 2004 - 1:10 am)</div><div class='quotemain'> <!--QuoteBegin-plasticine20@Apr 11th, 2004 - 8:32 pm
I say that if you don't like it, don't watch it. Simple as that. I am female and I DO like to watch the show. If they're not televising it for business reasons, that's fine with me. But if they're cancelling it because a small percentage just doesn't like it, well then that's ridiculous. I don't appreciate it when people are basically trying to control what I watch.

My only complaint about the show is that it has become increasingly cheesy throughout the years. :innocent:
oh ...i've done better than that...i was actually invited to the show the last two years...and i declined the invitation...you can be sure i didn't watch it...but it's on every entertainment show as well...the media coverage is obscene...all because of women in their panties and bras...

i personally know big models who have turned down very lucrative bookings with victoria's secret because they didn't want to end up the object of some guys affection when he's alone with himself in the bathroom... :innocent:

i just think it would be great if these ladies could make the kind of money they do WITHOUT taking their clothes off...a woman is compensated monetarily for parading around without any clothes on...what does that sound like...

and please...let's stop calling it a 'fashion show'...c'mon, there's really no 'fashion' involved here...just women in silly fantasy costumes...you're more likely to find that stuff they wear in a fetish shop than in your local VS at the mall...

i have no problem with women being sexy...but that whole show has been nothing but a jiggle-fest... :shock:

:innocent:

and let's just be clear...there is no FCC censorship here...VS pulled the show themselves...and i think it was a smart business move considering the current mood of the american viewing public...they clearly know what's good for them... [/b][/quote]

i tend to disagree with you for the most part.

-okay, yes, there is an enormeous amount of publicity and media coverage for the vs show. but from a business point of view, thats just very good marketing because it gets the product [the lingerie] out there and can eventually bring in more clientele. so with lots of coverage, ads, commericials, etc.. more people will watch, see the clothes, and hopefully buy them. i dont see the media's reaction to it as a result of the fact that its "all about women in panties and bras," its about advertising and marketing. granted the lingerie doesnt hurt, but everything is carefully planned, in terms of what, where, and when is being projected about the show.

-as for the notion of big models who have "turned down vs," i'm sure there are a couple of ladies who have done so. but personally, i think that wouldnt be in their best interest in terms of substantiating and prolonging their career as a model. the whole base of victoria's secret's success is through their mail order catalogs. so to be a model in those catalogs, you are dramatically increasing the amount of people who come in contact with you. a vs contract launches you into 'normal society' by that i mean that your pictures will be viewed by people who probably have no idea who tom ford is. once being in vs, i think that more doors open for you. the next time you are in an editorial, or on a cover, more people might buy the magazine because theyve been exposed to you before. generally speaking, people like familiar-ality [i dont think thats a word :blush: ]. if they seee you, like you, they are bound to buy things that you present. which will consequently help your career.

-however, i can understand not wanting to do it for personal reasons. the idea that a man is, for lack of a better term, "whacking off" to your picture is undoubtedly gross. but not all readers of vs are men, and not all "whack off" to the pictures.

-as for not calling it a fashion show. i think it deserves the right to be called a fashion show, hands down. victoria's secret is a company, and their product is lingerie. when they showcase their product, it's a fashion show. just because its lingerie, and just because its vs does not mean its not a fashion show. balencigia used lingerie as a main staple of his ss 2004 collection, which recieved raves from critics, and i dont think anyone would argue thats not a fashion show. and if one argues that vs is not a fashion show because its vs, just because it is a commercial company does not mean anything. ralph lauren, tommy hilfiger, calvin klein are household names, very commercial in terms of labels. and yet they too are fashion shows. just because victorias secret has combined the idea of lingerie and a commerical name does not mean its not a fashion show.

-"just women in silly fantasy costumes" but its their product. that is what they are selling and promoting. just because it is not the typical fashion clothing we imagine, does not mean its not fashion.

-"you're more likely to find that stuff they wear in a fetish shop than in your local VS store at the mall" not neccessarily true. granted the wings and extravagant outfits are not going to be showcased in the store, but most bras and underwear are available in the store, and if not, they are definitely available online.

-and i agree with Sephora_Socialite, we are all entitled to our own opinion, if you dont like seeing lingerie, or dont like what vs represents, fine, dont watch.

-i do agree with your statement about the FCC though


:flower:
 
-"you're more likely to find that stuff they wear in a fetish shop than in your local VS store at the mall" not neccessarily true. granted the wings and extravagant outfits are not going to be showcased in the store, but most bras and underwear are available in the store, and if not, they are definitely available online"

marc jacobs addict...that is a wrong assumption that you are making...that stuff they wear is created purely for the runway and pr purposes...it never actually winds up being available anywhere...fact...it's really just costumes for the show..

and the reason i say we should not call it a fashion show is that they are not showcasing fashion...they are showcasing lingerie...calling it a 'fashion show' is VS marketing strategy to legitimize the jiggle-fest...but let's not fall for the hype and call it what it really is...

a lingerie show... :flower:

as for girls who've turned down working for VS...believe it or not...some girls have ideals and values that transcend the idea of making money, getting rich or being famous... :innocent: self-respect might have something to do with it... :wink:
 
I don't have a problem with nudity or semi-nudity in a natural setting. I don't think children need to, or should be, protected against it either.

What I don't like is when it's exploited. I don't think a lingerie show belongs on public television. Period. I feel that it really is just cheap publicity, a jiggle-fest (thank you, softie) which reinforces the objectification of women.

If people want to see women in lingerie, they can pick up a catalogue.
 
Originally posted by tott@Apr 12th, 2004 - 1:59 pm
What I don't like is when it's exploited. I don't think a lingerie show belongs on public television. Period. I feel that it really is just cheap publicity, a jiggle-fest (thank you, softie) which reinforces the objectification of women.
Pay-per-view... :lol:

However, as much as I dislike this type of thing it is a part of life. These shows are going to happen whether we like 'em or not.
 
Originally posted by purplelucrezia+Apr 12th, 2004 - 2:03 pm--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(purplelucrezia @ Apr 12th, 2004 - 2:03 pm)</div><div class='quotemain'> <!--QuoteBegin-tott@Apr 12th, 2004 - 1:59 pm
What I don't like is when it's exploited. I don't think a lingerie show belongs on public television. Period. I feel that it really is just cheap publicity, a jiggle-fest (thank you, softie) which reinforces the objectification of women.
Pay-per-view... :lol:

However, as much as I dislike this type of thing it is a part of life. These shows are going to happen whether we like 'em or not. [/b][/quote]
well purple...apparently this particular one is not going to happen though, is it...hahahahahah :clap:
 
Originally posted by softgrey+Apr 12th, 2004 - 2:07 pm--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(softgrey @ Apr 12th, 2004 - 2:07 pm)</div><div class='quotemain'>
Originally posted by purplelucrezia@Apr 12th, 2004 - 2:03 pm
<!--QuoteBegin-tott
@Apr 12th, 2004 - 1:59 pm
What I don't like is when it's exploited. I don't think a lingerie show belongs on public television. Period. I feel that it really is just cheap publicity, a jiggle-fest (thank you, softie) which reinforces the objectification of women.

Pay-per-view... :lol:

However, as much as I dislike this type of thing it is a part of life. These shows are going to happen whether we like 'em or not.
well purple...apparently this particular one is not going to happen though, is it...hahahahahah :clap: [/b][/quote]
Victory! :lol:
 
I've never watched it all the way through but I'm sad to see it go. Its really rediculous that Janet Jackson exposing her nipple is keeping us from seeing a bit of skin. What Janet did was a tasteless publicity stunt that violated FCC rules. The lingerie worn by the women, however, is an artistic statement in a way that breaks no rules. And, as far as I know, not done live. Also, people know what they're getting with a VS Fashion Show...half naked girls in undies and wings. Ironically enough, it is no secret that Victoria's Secret fashion shows are very revealing. I think people are just over reacting and punishing those who do not need to be punished.
 
I really don't think it is being cancelled because of Janet, even if that's the reason they're giving. The truth is that sex doesn't sell as much as it used to especially now that everyone is using sex to sell products. :rolleyes: I think this is the beginning of a backlash against our oversexed society.
 
Originally posted by hollyslookingdry@Apr 12th, 2004 - 2:23 pm
What Janet did was a tasteless publicity stunt that violated FCC rules. The lingerie worn by the women, however, is an artistic statement in a way that breaks no rules.
ARTISTIC STATEMENT...???!!!! you've got to be kidding...

HAHAHAHA :lol: :buzz: :rofl:

PUH=LEASE...no one believes this is art, do they?...is anyone that naive?>>> :rolleyes:

try PUBLICITY STUNT...disguised as a fashion show... :flower:
 
well then they should ban the carnival as well!when did we lose our sense of fun ad become such hypocrites?
 
Originally posted by eguana@Apr 12th, 2004 - 3:35 pm
well then they should ban the carnival as well!when did we lose our sense of fun ad become such hypocrites?
i agree!



and softgrey, you say its not fashion. i say it is. i guess its a personal opinion. but i definitely think of it as fashion. fashion is expressing something through clothes. no matter what it is you are trying to get across, its fashion. so maybe the marketing executives at vs are trying to sell sex, fine, so be it. but it is fashion.

and once again, i do not doubt that women have turned contracts or oppurtunitites to work with victoria's secret. for whatever thats fine. i just personally think, in terms of their careers, thats not the best choice for optimizing their career and getting their face out into the public. but in the end, its the model's choice.

and i'm sorry, i dont mean to seem defensive or anything, but you are wrong about the runway lingerie. i've bought some of the bras, and underwear, online, as well as in the stores in nyc.

and you make fun of it saying its not artistic statement. and you say its naive of someone to think so, but then arent you being the naive and ignorant one here? whatever your definition of 'art' or 'fashion' is, i dont think youre taking in the whole picture. fashion and art are hugely broad terms. lingerie is art, like nudity is art. lingerie is fashion, like nudity can be fashion.

and you know what, you say its a publicity stunt. whatever the heads of vs are trying to do, they are obviously doing something right. because here you and i are arguing about it. so apparently the marketing people know what theyre doing because the vs name is out there, and getting attention.

i personally think lingerie is fashion. i thinks an art, like couture is art. its not the tyrpical fashion or art we think of, but i think it is without a doubt fashion and art.
 
Originally posted by eguana@Apr 12th, 2004 - 3:35 pm
well then they should ban the carnival as well!when did we lose our sense of fun ad become such hypocrites?
i don't know about carnival because it doesn't exist in this country, but i think mardis gras...which we do have...is a disgusting display...women getting plastic beads to flash their breasts?!?!...come on...have we not evolved further than that ...i am utterly repulsed by it :yuk:

marcjacobsaddict...if you think this crap is art ...then i have nothing more to say... :ninja:

and can anyone explain those girls gone wild videos?...what the hell is that...who are these girls?...i'd really like to know their motivation...it's so degrading... :shock:
 
Originally posted by eguana@Apr 12th, 2004 - 9:35 pm
well then they should ban the carnival as well!when did we lose our sense of fun ad become such hypocrites?
I don't think it's hypocritical to slam the VS show while still condoning carnivals. I assume you're talking about Rio or something similar?

Carnivals like the one in Rio is a lot about skin, but it's festive and spontaneous, even though some participants spend months preparing. A more "natural" setting to display your goods, if you like. It's a big party! In some ways it's sexy and about sex, but it's a happening and a celebration. Anyone can join in, and it doesn't really matter what size you are and how much you're showing.
 
Originally posted by tott+Apr 12th, 2004 - 4:20 pm--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(tott @ Apr 12th, 2004 - 4:20 pm)</div><div class='quotemain'> <!--QuoteBegin-eguana@Apr 12th, 2004 - 9:35 pm
well then they should ban the carnival as well!when did we lose our sense of fun ad become such hypocrites?
I don't think it's hypocritical to slam the VS show while still condoning carnivals. I assume you're talking about Rio or something similar?

Carnivals like the one in Rio is a lot about skin, but it's festive and spontaneous, even though some participants spend months preparing. A more "natural" setting to display your goods, if you like. It's a big party! In some ways it's sexy and about sex, but it's a happening and a celebration. Anyone can join in, and it doesn't really matter what size you are and how much you're showing. [/b][/quote]
Agreed. They are not trying to sell their "goods." :innocent:
 
Originally posted by softgrey+Apr 12th, 2004 - 4:05 pm--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(softgrey @ Apr 12th, 2004 - 4:05 pm)</div><div class='quotemain'> <!--QuoteBegin-eguana@Apr 12th, 2004 - 3:35 pm
well then they should ban the carnival as well!when did we lose our sense of fun ad become such hypocrites?
i don't know about carnival because it doesn't exist in this country, but i think mardis gras...which we do have...is a disgusting display...women getting plastic beads to flash their breasts?!?!...come on...have we not evolved further than that ...i am utterly repulsed by it :yuk:

marcjacobsaddict...if you think this crap is art ...then i have nothing more to say... :ninja:

and can anyone explain those girls gone wild videos?...what the hell is that...who are these girls?...i'd really like to know their motivation...it's so degrading... :shock: [/b][/quote]

excuse me! but who are you to tell me what is, and what is not art?!!? :angry:

just because you do not like, or do not approve of something does not mean it is not art, or fashion.

i think it's pitiful that you come off as this narrow-minded to not even be willing to accept the idea that someone else can an opinion different than yours. your comments come down as this booming condescending voice that i just dont agree with. who are you to tell me that what i look at as an art form is crap?!!!? that is ridiculious. i am insulted that you would sit there and be so judgemental to my personal opinion. you and i obviously do not agree on this, that is fine. but please do not try to be superior and give these comments that make you seem so ignorant that you are just shutting out all other possibilities and opinions. its self-righteous.
 

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