Virginie Viard - Designer

Ultimately when we are talking rich people. Since this is fashion. We should be centering the rich person who buys a whole new wardrobe (10+ garment pieces) from chanel, dior etc every season.

So lets say this person can spend 500k USD a year on clothing alone. They would have to have an income around 20 million a year…

We dont want stingy rich people here. We want ones who dont look at price and desire a heavy emphasis on prestige through exclusivity.

The rich person buying Valentino at TJ Maxx or eBay is not giving their money directly to Valentino so they dont count in the bubble …

Like we also need to center the woman who is excited to spend 20k buying her first Chanel suit as a right of passage. we need to accept it as a status symbol for what she has achieved…

Doesnt mean we need to wear Chanel or even like it.
 
Ultimately when we are talking rich people. Since this is fashion. We should be centering the rich person who buys a whole new wardrobe (10+ garment pieces) from chanel, dior etc every season.

So lets say this person can spend 500k USD a year on clothing alone. They would have to have an income around 20 million a year…

We dont want stingy rich people here. We want ones who dont look at price and desire a heavy emphasis on prestige through exclusivity.

The rich person buying Valentino at TJ Maxx or eBay is not giving their money directly to Valentino so they dont count in the bubble …
Cause they are everywehre and so easy to find as friends and besties.

Also why does that description read "bling empire"
 


I'm sorry, but I don't think the criticism around Viard's collections was not unfair at all. If you work for a Maison like Chanel, Dior, etc, there are expectations. And yes, you might not be able to impress the entire audience, but so what? Mademoiselle Chanel was criticised many a times in her design career, but she persisted and stuck to her vision. This attitude of honouring and sticking to your vision in the face of adversity is part of the Chanel raison d'être.

The fact that we lived through such an extended period of time where people couldn't openly criticise the brand, due to the fear you might jeopardise the advertising budget, or be banned from a show, etc, is so horrifically toxic and wrong. People in the industry lived in fear of the brand due to its financial might and power. It's actually sickening. Even Bernard Arnault is not that sensitive and authoritarian.

Bruno Pavlovsky is probably responsible for installing this culture of fear as he clearly has an extremely fragile ego and cannot accept the fact that Chanel is not "the best" and the most praised Maison out there. I can't imagine Karl Lagerfeld caring whatsoever about what people thought of his work.

Besides, art and culture should be open to receiving criticism. Having an informed discussion / conversation and sharing opinions about a creative output is part of engaging in cultural life. We go to see a film, or an exhibition, or a performance and express our opinions after the fact. To limit this or to punish people if they don't praise the work of a designer is absolutely authoritarian and sickening.

And to call the commentary around Viard's work "vicious"? Seriously? How is a statement like this (for example) anything but fair and observant?

"Viard’s work on the whole lacked surprise and innovation but above all authority. Her designs didn’t come from a woman of strong opinions (so it would seem) about dress and modern attitudes, who made you want to instantly change how you dressed — as Coco Chanel herself did several times during her long career." - Cathy Horyn

And now I am seeing people being called "misogynist" for merely expressing their opinions about her design aesthetic? We're equating expressing a valid opinion about a designer's work with the hating and prejudice of women? It's crazy times we live in...
 
And now I am seeing people being called "misogynist" for merely expressing their opinions about her design aesthetic? We're equating expressing a valid opinion about a designer's work with the hating and prejudice of women? It's crazy times we live in.
There are a lot of things said I do agree with, but I do find it odd that being called 'misogynist' is in a way so offensive to some.
That the idea of an online bystander's opinion being regarded as valid where they are not the target audience is very funny to me.
A target customer who makes an opinion about Chanel design is valid because the brand has targeted them.
Whereas an average person who consumes fashion content (fashionista or content creator or whatever), because that is their interest, does not provide an ounce of 'valid opinion'.
Even though the word 'misogynist' or any word for that matter can be thrown around quite easily, I do wonder what makes a man's opinion about a brand that caters to the needs of women important, or necessary, or valid.
A lot of criticism surrounding female designers for women's fashion here does come from a genuine interest in fashion ignited by absolutely talented male designers from the past. Not to dismiss their contribution and important impact on how women should dress, and for women out there who support them and crave more designers who could be like them, it is also fair to accept that women have voted with their wallets for designers like Virginie and Maria. The absolutely amazing works by these male designers who have dictated how women should dress are limited by their respective time and culture (also limited by women within their social circle), with their love and respect towards women, their creative output could not, by today's standard, be the only standard that dictates what good tastes are.
Women should be allowed to dress as they please without men who think they have authority over what good taste is telling them the designs are bad or they should 'dress' better. And when they do voice to fight back online, their opinions are valid.

Back to why Virginie might have chosen to leave, one thing circulating online is that her Haute Couture collections are not received well by clients, which imo goes into the issue of the prestige of Chanel. If the top of the top is losing interest, that would certainly mean trouble.
 
^ I wasn’t a fan of Virginie’s work, but I agree that the online discourse around her did turn nasty. I felt similarly about Karl Lagerfeld’s last years at Chanel, it really wasn’t that much better than Virginie’s collections but no one ever attacked Karl personally as far as I remember.
 
chanel's dirty laundry coming out. let's see how they're gonna pr spin this. however, it's time for a changing of the guard, not just them, but a good handful of others within the industry, too.

i welcome the change.

Last year, talks broke down between Gucci's former star designer Alessandro Michele and Fendi, several industry sources have said. Michele wanted the brand to part ways with Fendi matriarch Silvia Venturini Fendi, in charge of menswear and accessories, and her daughter Delfina Delettrez Fendi who has looked after jewelry since 2020.


"There were advanced negotiations and they were close to signing, but Alessandro wanted the family to exit and LVMH could not agree to that," one person with knowledge of the talks said.

if this is true, that's some nasty work. i still wonder why silvia couldn't or didn't want to design of her own because her collection post-karl was nice and lovely. it looked better than what kim's been churning out...

alessandro's ego is too big and good for LVMH to stand behind the fendis. real nasty he wanted to push the family out of their namesake in order to totally usurp the brand with a burst of circus-chaos smh

i have low hopes for valentino
 
if its their passion and just want to design works without getting angry social media gays or tfsers then they better stay at some unknown independent house. She was probably getting paid millions and was in one of the biggest house, obviously people will be harsh. Don't think people will be so harsh if she was at Celio or massimo dutti.

I doubt she ever finished a show and thought to herself "yeap i did it, this is gonna be a fashion movement".
 
Sounds very "New Rich" / "Insta Rich". Besides most prices are found online, physical stores these days are just to see what you want in person and to fit it or make alterations with your s.a.. I doubt they didn't check farfetch if what they want is on the outlet section. But i guess my "friends" arent in that bracket yet.
Hmm, not really, I think quite the opposite actually. As I said, I think it depends on the level of wealth. It is good to have not that rich customers as well, but I get what PDFS means. Luxury for very rich people is cheaper than getting a Zara shirt for me.

And no one is saying we are rich, I think we’ve said (me at least for sure) we work for a company and I did my personal comparison with Zara, so😵‍💫… Anyways, if I were rich I wouldn’t spend money in luxury. I get things for free (allowance) and never wear them, so imagine. 💀 I think luxury these days is really cheap (most of it).

Getting back to the price issue, I remember in 2017 that my coworkers were “saving” for a Chanel purse. I think these days there are much less people doing so with Chanel. In a way, they’ve pushed out the aspirational customer for the bags. They could still get the slingbacks (which are priced quite low in comparison, if you ask me, because you have houses like Chloé sellin the Jeannette at 1090€ while the slingback is 1060€), but for the for the bags and the RTW they literally pushed out the aspirational clientele that other houses have.
 
There are a lot of things said I do agree with, but I do find it odd that being called 'misogynist' is in a way so offensive to some.
That the idea of an online bystander's opinion being regarded as valid where they are not the target audience is very funny to me.
A target customer who makes an opinion about Chanel design is valid because the brand has targeted them.
Whereas an average person who consumes fashion content (fashionista or content creator or whatever), because that is their interest, does not provide an ounce of 'valid opinion'.
Even though the word 'misogynist' or any word for that matter can be thrown around quite easily, I do wonder what makes a man's opinion about a brand that caters to the needs of women important, or necessary, or valid.
A lot of criticism surrounding female designers for women's fashion here does come from a genuine interest in fashion ignited by absolutely talented male designers from the past. Not to dismiss their contribution and important impact on how women should dress, and for women out there who support them and crave more designers who could be like them, it is also fair to accept that women have voted with their wallets for designers like Virginie and Maria. The absolutely amazing works by these male designers who have dictated how women should dress are limited by their respective time and culture (also limited by women within their social circle), with their love and respect towards women, their creative output could not, by today's standard, be the only standard that dictates what good tastes are.
Women should be allowed to dress as they please without men who think they have authority over what good taste is telling them the designs are bad or they should 'dress' better. And when they do voice to fight back online, their opinions are valid.

Back to why Virginie might have chosen to leave, one thing circulating online is that her Haute Couture collections are not received well by clients, which imo goes into the issue of the prestige of Chanel. If the top of the top is losing interest, that would certainly mean trouble.
Just ignoring all that… The answer is yes. No man has to justify anything to you ok? I know youre really confused.

The way all the long running postees all have this anti social streak explains why TFS has been dead since forever.
 
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^ I wasn’t a fan of Virginie’s work, but I agree that the online discourse around her did turn nasty. I felt similarly about Karl Lagerfeld’s last years at Chanel, it really wasn’t that much better than Virginie’s collections but no one ever attacked Karl personally as far as I remember.
I am stunned. Karl was destroyed on TFS for ages.

Like he had entire journalists dedicate themselves to destroying him. He had journalists try to do that gotcha crap with him and he never fell for it bc hes a genius.

What???? Karl not be attacked personally?? The ideologues with nothing to do love to attack personally.

Virginie couldnt cut it bc shes thin skinned.
 
There are a lot of things said I do agree with, but I do find it odd that being called 'misogynist' is in a way so offensive to some.
That the idea of an online bystander's opinion being regarded as valid where they are not the target audience is very funny to me.
A target customer who makes an opinion about Chanel design is valid because the brand has targeted them.
Whereas an average person who consumes fashion content (fashionista or content creator or whatever), because that is their interest, does not provide an ounce of 'valid opinion'.

You cannot be serious?

We all have a right to express our opinions regardless of gender or ethnicity or socio economic status. Freedom of expression is a fundamental human right. What you're alluding to is that only women who buy the brand can have a "valid" opinion on Virginie's designs because they have, in your words, "voted with their wallets". Surely you see how problematic that entire concept is?

No one is invalidating anyone's opinions here except you.

The criticism of Virginie's design oeuvre is completely valid. No one is attacking her personally, or calling Viard's gender into question when assessing her work. The majority of the criticisms are coming purely out of creative response to her designs. Pure and simple. Her work was not good. What more is there to say on the matter?

And I'm sorry but how exactly are men supposedly dictating what women should wear or what good taste is, particularly in this century? Sure, there were, and are, a lot of male designers working in the luxury fashion landscape, but how are they ordering anyone to wear anything or gatekeeping ideas of "good taste"? These designers present ideas on the runway and women either respond to it creatively or not. Women are the ones that decide if something is worth buying. They are the ones that decide what is within the flagpoles of "good taste" on platforms like Instagram and TikTok.

Designers are mere presenters of ideas with no authority on matters of taste, especially in this social media dominated world we live in.
 
Lmao, the gender discussions are usually wild. A person who was born with a penis can't comment on a brand that does clothing for "women". Savage. Also, like if there weren't men who buy women's clothes or bags. :lol: This discussion is so 50 years ago, my gawwwwd.

Same for when people say: this designer for this house should be a woman, or French, or should have 4 toes instead of 5, and should paint her nails in black, or should have a pet and two children, but if the eldest is blond she can't aspire to the position.. Puhhhlease.
 
Enjoy :-)

MISS TWEED.COM

Viard’s exit signals crisis at mighty Chanel
Astrid Wendlandt
09/06/24

Virginie Viard and Chanel parted ways this week. Her exit is the result of several factors that brought an end to the 30-year collaboration between the French luxury powerhouse and Karl Lagerfeld's former right-hand designer.


Chanel gave no explanation for its creative director's sudden departure but it was clearly not planned. Usually, fashion houses announce a designer's exit after the last show and unveil the identity of his or her successor some days later. In this case, Chanel broke the news three weeks before the brand's haute couture show which the brand said would still take place on June 25 at Paris' Opera Garnier. Also, it said, "Chanel confirms the departure of Virginie Viard," after the news started leaking from staff. It is clear Chanel believed it was forced to announce her departure.


The fact that the statement was issued at midnight Paris time means that it came from New York, where Alain Wertheimer, Chanel's executive chairman and controlling shareholder, is based. Hence, Wertheimer is the one who let Viard go, not CEO Leena Nair in London or Bruno Pavlovsky who is in charge of Chanel's fashion and is based in Paris. Pavlovsky has done his best to prevent Viard from leaving. In recent interviews, he strongly supported her work and rejected the possibility of her exiting. It is clear that Viard left the brand on her own initiative. She had had enough, industry sources say. She believed it was time to move on as Chanel was undergoing a generational management change and is currently suffering from an unprecedented drop in sales.


SIGN OF REVOLUTION


Viard's departure is a sign of the revolution Chanel is going through under the leadership of CEO Leena Nair, a former Unilever human resources boss who started in January


2022. As Miss Tweed reported in January, Nair has been pushing many of the brand's old guard out in the past year. Such movements have created tension internally at the company once known for being a job-for-life place. "You don't leave Chanel, you die at Chanel," people in the industry used to say.


The next person to be pushed to retire is Anne Kirby, who has been running the brand's beauty and perfume empire for six years. "Chanel confirms that after 35 years with the house, Anne Kirby, president of Chanel fragrance and beauty, is retiring at the end of 2024," the brand told Miss Tweed in an email on Saturday. Her departure comes as Chanel beauty and fragrance has been suffering from competition from other megabrands such as Dior and Hermès, and in China from homegrown brands.


After Kirby, the next high-profile exit could be that of Pavlovsky himself. The Frenchman has been trying to undermine Nair since she started and has spent a lot of energy resisting her plan to change Chanel's corporate culture and organization. Pavlovsky is a powerful person in French fashion and sees himself as the king of the industry. He is chairman of the French Federation of Haute Couture and Fashion and chairman of the Institut Français de la Mode (IFM) Foundation. In 2021, he also created a Chanel chair at IFM dedicated to the arts and crafts. As soon as he departs Chanel, he would have to leave these positions as well. Hence his exit would be a complex affair. Many would like to see him go. Pavlovsky is said to be an authoritarian figure who only does things his way and cannot take criticism. An example is the fact that he has barred Miss Tweed from attending Chanel's shows. Getting rid of him could take time. Also, much will depend on who the next creative director is and whether that person is willing to work with him.


NO LONGER UNTOUCHABLE


Viard's exit became a pressing issue after Chanel's cruise collection on the rooftop of a Le Corbusier building in Marseille in early May was lambasted on social media. It marked the first time a brand the size of Chanel was so harshly and openly criticized by the general public, Miss Tweed reported. "For many years, Chanel was this amazingly powerful brand no one dared to attack," a former executive at a major online fashion retailer said. "After this show, it became clear that Chanel was no longer untouchable."


Like other creative people, Viard is ultra-sensitive and was badly bruised by the social media onslaught. Chanel's management supported her publicly when it published its annual results last month. CFO Philippe Blondiaux said Chanel's fashion business had more than doubled since she took over from Lagerfeld in 2019. "Collections can be more or less successful," Blondiaux said. "These things happen to any designer."


Having just turned 62, Viard decided it was time to go, industry insiders say. The atmosphere at Chanel had become tense in recent months because of declining sales.


Boutique directors from London to Shanghai say sales have fallen seriously since the beginning of the year. Last month, Blondiaux warned that times would be tough saying the industry was now "entering a more challenging environment".


The year 2024 may be the first year Chanel suffers a drop in revenue. In mainland China, revenue is said to be down by more than 27 percent since the beginning of the year, local industry sources say.


Chanel reported a 16 percent rise in sales to $19.7 billion in 2023 compared with 2022. Had it not sharply raised the price of its handbags over the past five years - like that of the 2.55 model which rose by 95 percent - the brand's revenue would be in sharp decline, critics say, as these make up the bulk of the fashion business.


On social media, customers have complained about the price hikes and become vocal about declining quality compared with years ago. They find the quilted leather to be thinner and the hardware and famous chain to be less resistant to time and to be less shiny than they used to be.


PREPARING THE GROUND


Viard worked with Lagerfeld for more than 30 years. She joined Chanel in 1987 as an intern and followed him at Chloé between 1992 and 1997. Afterwards, the pair remained Chanel's main design duo until she became fully in charge in 2019. In 2017, as Lagerfeld became weaker, he started taking his final bow with her at shows, preparing the ground for her to take over. For the Wertheimer family, it was always clear that Viard would succeed Lagerfeld after his death. She did a great job continuing the Kaiser's work, although her shows were never as pertinent or as grandiose as his. "Lagerfeld asked for the impossible and obtained it every time," people who worked with him say.


Lagerfeld understood that fashion and luxury are about selling culture - as does LVMH CEO Bernard Arnault. It is about show business and offering a convincing and relevant point of view. Lagerfeld used to say that Coco Chanel was an old lady who needed to be shaken up regularly to remain in tune with the times. Viard never felt as empowered or as legitimate as Lagerfeld to do that. That is why her work felt polite and predictable compared with his.


Lagerfeld was always au fait with current affairs and, for journalists, his shows were a breeze to cover. Those who, like Miss Tweed, interviewed him many times after his show, remember that he would always say something intelligent that fitted what people had just seen. Many designers say things after their show that seem disconnected from what their collection appeared to be about.


For example, in March 2013, Chanel's ready-to-wear show closed with two beautiful women holding hands, dressed as brides. The German designer explained afterwards that this was his way of supporting the law on gay marriage in France. Lagerfeld was an avid reader of philosophy and thought a lot about what was happening in the world. He hated the past. "When people start talking about the good old times, quelle horreur, I run away," Lagerfeld used to say. Only the future was of interest to him. Lagerfeld was in the "here and tomorrow".


Coming after the Kaiser with his encyclopedic knowledge and sixth sense for capturing the zeitgeist was never going to be easy. Viard did the best she could with her rock-pop vibe and her attempts at turning Chanel into an ultra-feminine and feminist brand, holding literary cafés and staging shows that made people focus more on the clothes than on the scenery. Viard's cheaper events must have helped improve margins at the brand's fashion activities. If people complained about how expensive his ideas were, Lagerfeld like to say: "I don't work for poor people."


Chanel has also been expanding its reach in the arts, sponsoring many events and artists.


MORE LOW-KEY


Viard produced collections faithful to Lagerfeld's and Chanel's heritage, as the Wertheimer family asked her. However, as her shows became more low-key compared with Lagerfeld's out-of-this world events, consumers started paying more attention to the clothes and they found Chanel's style looked increasingly repetitive.


Lagerfeld's collections always had an underlying theme. Viard's less so. "The genius of her 'boss' was his ability to capture the moment, for 10 shows a year, putting the line-up of looks that went right back to founder Coco Chanel's style, but teasing and twisting each collection," veteran fashion critic Suzy Menkes wrote on her Instagram account in reaction to the news of Viard's exit. "Virginie, on her own, nobly follows the Karl spirit and makes acceptable clothes. But word from the nastier fashionistas is that Chanel had to hike up the price of ever-successful handbags in order to fill up the fashion shortfall ... With an interest in art and music, she can find a more attractive life than being criticized for not being Mr. Lagerfeld."


Fashion experts also noticed that Viard did not have complete control over the brand's image. The brand produced a series of inconsistent ad campaigns. It hired many different art directors and photographers and gave a lot of leeway to photographers such Inez and Vinoodh, they say. The pair just produced a new ad campaign, featuring actors Brad Pitt and Penelope Cruz, revisiting the Claude Lelouch film A Man and a Woman.


In December last year, Chanel held its Métiers d Art show in Manchester in the UK, an industrial and working-class city with little luxury culture, like Marseille. Viard wanted to pay tribute to the city's new wave and pop music and artists such as the Smiths, New Order and Oasis. It marked an attempt to break Chanel's conservative image but that is not what consumers expected of her. Viard produced shows driven by her own personal inspiration, not by what was happening in the world.


"You sense a complete lack of central creative vision which did not help construct a cohesive narrative for the brand in the past five years" notes Fabio Becheri, an adviser to luxury brands who worked many years for Kering.


EXCLUSIVE AURA


Another problem is that the executives who understood what Chanel was about are leaving or have already left. If they were still in charge, they would have stopped Viard from doing her show in Manchester or Marseille, a city known for its grubby and gangster-dominated neighborhoods. These hardly suit the glam and exclusive aura associated with Chanel. The aerial views of lines of concrete buildings, filmed by drones for the video that the brand showed about the cruise collection, evoked a vision of a third-rate suburb.


Now Chanel needs to reinvent itself. Like Gucci last year, it did not expect its creative director to leave so abruptly, and it does not appear to have a successor lined up. "It's surreal that Chanel, a $20 billion business, has not prepared this moment," one veteran former fashion CEO said. "Chanel had 15 years to prepare Karl's succession. They should have started while he was still in charge. That's a serious professional mistake. They worry about organization, but they should worry first about the brand's creativity - the nuclear reactor."


However, unlike Gucci parent Kering, which is a listed company, Chanel can afford to take its time and it probably will, people close to Chanel say. "We are confident in the teams' ability to ensure the continuity of the collections during this period of transition"" Chanel said in a statement.


Several names are in the hat, including that of Hedi Slimane, Celine's outgoing creative director. Slimane would be great in theory but in reality, it's unlikely Chanel would be willing to give him the complete control he would want over the brand's image, fashion insiders say. However, you never know. Industry sources have also been mentioning the name of Marc Jacobs. He would be a great team player - essential at Chanel. Jacobs is tied to his own eponymous brand only until 2027. That is partly why offers for his business - put up for sale in recent months - did not meet expectations, as Miss Tweed reported in May.


Another candidate is Pierpaolo Piccioli, who left Valentino in March. Piccioli would most certainly revamp the brand's couture and give it a strong new vision. However, the Italian designer may already be in talks with LVMH about joining Fendi to succeed Kim Jones.


Last year, talks broke down between Gucci's former star designer Alessandro Michele and Fendi, several industry sources have said. Michele wanted the brand to part ways with Fendi matriarch Silvia Venturini Fendi, in charge of menswear and accessories, and her daughter Delfina Delettrez Fendi who has looked after jewelry since 2020.


"There were advanced negotiations and they were close to signing, but Alessandro wanted the family to exit and LVMH could not agree to that," one person with knowledge of the talks said.


It could take as much as a year for Chanel to find the right person to succeed Viard. Despite the recent battering it endured, the brand remains one of the world's strongest and it has experienced teams in place who can ensure continuity. What happens next at Chanel is going to be one of the industry's most closely watched sagas.


(Edited by Andrew Dobbie, photo montage by Dimka)
Everyone thinks the price increases are to artificially make the brand more “lux” but it’s really because of falling sales!
 
Just ignoring all that… The answer is yes. No man has to justify anything to you ok? I know youre really confused.

The way all the long running postees all have this anti social streak explains why TFS has been dead since forever.
Never have I suggested that men need to justify anything to me personally nor am I confused. If what I wrote only triggers that type of reaction from you I guess I do have a point.
You cannot be serious?

We all have a right to express our opinions regardless of gender or ethnicity or socio economic status. Freedom of expression is a fundamental human right. What you're alluding to is that only women who buy the brand can have a "valid" opinion on Virginie's designs because they have, in your words, "voted with their wallets". Surely you see how problematic that entire concept is?

No one is invalidating anyone's opinions here except you.
I think you are missing my point, I do believe people are allowed to express their opinions, but with dignity and self-respect. But I don't think that means that their opinion should be regarded as 'valid'. A product that is viewed and criticised purely from an artistic perspective is fundamentally limited. I actually don't think the idea that women who purchase Chanle have a valid opinion about the point is problematic, so please enlighten me.
The idea of using freedom of expression to insert into a place that is not catered to you and demand a reaction, for me, is problematic.
The criticism of Virginie's design oeuvre is completely valid. No one is attacking her personally, or calling Viard's gender into question when assessing her work. The majority of the criticisms are coming purely out of creative response to her designs. Pure and simple. Her work was not good. What more is there to say on the matter?

And I'm sorry but how exactly are men supposedly dictating what women should wear or what good taste is, particularly in this century? Sure, there were, and are, a lot of male designers working in the luxury fashion landscape, but how are they ordering anyone to wear anything or gatekeeping ideas of "good taste"? These designers present ideas on the runway and women either respond to it creatively or not. Women are the ones that decide if something is worth buying. They are the ones that decide what is within the flagpoles of "good taste" on platforms like Instagram and TikTok.
If what I expressed could not be understood as what is being held as good taste by a lot of members and people is a reflection of the standard/taste created by talented male designers and celebrated by their female clients. And today with female designers presenting new tastes and new designs, it should not be so easily dismissed because it doesn't look the way it was. Time have changed, and women's demand are diversifying, which is reflected by the number published.
Lmao, the gender discussions are usually wild. A person who was born with a penis can't comment on a brand that does clothing for "women". Savage. Also, like if there weren't men who buy women's clothes or bags. :lol: This discussion is so 50 years ago, my gawwwwd.

Same for when people say: this designer for this house should be a woman, or French, or should have 4 toes instead of 5, and should paint her nails in black, or should have a pet and two children, but if the eldest is blond she can't aspire to the position.. Puhhhlease.
I guess you are being witty about it. But if that is what you are getting, we are not at the same level of critical thinking, so go off sis.
 
I don’t know where this ‘Viard and MGC being the only woman designers, emerging in a male-dominated industry, and changing the game’ narrative came from. Women have been in CD positions before these ladies too, and they have actually produced good collections.

There is no ‘demand’ for Viard’s frumpy dresses. Let’s be real. The only demand was in bags, cosmetics and etc.
 
I don’t know where this ‘Viard and MGC being the only woman designers, emerging in a male-dominated industry, and changing the game’ narrative came from. Women have been in CD positions before these ladies too, and they have actually produced good collections.

There is no ‘demand’ for Viard’s frumpy dresses. Let’s be real. The only demand was in bags, cosmetics and etc.

Exactly. I don't think people actually care about the gender of a CD as long as the vision is strong and clothes are somewhat-inspiring. And now people want to call an established critic Suzy Menkes (who is a woman, older in age, and admittedly not exactly sample size herself) "fatphobic" for calling designs "matronly" because they can't call her sexist or ageist. All for a brief/digital pat-on-the-back of course (and not because they actually care).

And perhaps this opening a can of worms but a lot of gay men are going to have strong opinions about most art-related avenues, especially with fashion being of the few areas that gay men have been allowed to openly enjoy and be the front-faces of. Don't gays idolize Phoebe Philo, Donatella Versace, Miuccia Prada, Rei Kawakubo, and Vivienne Westwood? The ones who are more knowledgeable love Ann Demeulmeester, Silvia Fendi, Natacha Ramsay-Levi, Sarah Burton (to a certain extent or after the fact maybe), and a recent example being Chemena Kamali. And I think they are just as harsh, or worse, towards gay male creative directors who don't have that vision (I can also list a bunch of names here). And do people forget that a few gay male creative director often have women stylist/team designers/consultant/muses by their side that they openly praise (ahem: Riccardo T., Tom F., Demna, Marc J., and of course Karl L.). It's all selective.

Back to the topic of the VV/MGC topic, I will say part of the blame for uninspiring collections could be directed more towards the business execs (mostly older straight men and the occasional straight women). I sympathize with Virginie, she clearly took on a role that she did not ever want but probably felt like she needed to (and why not make some more money leading up to retirement age, I would have done the same). My criticism comes from her making her discontent with her position so obvious with clothes/sets/branding that lack an identity and flattering cuts for the women's bodies (don't tell me that a dress that looks frumpy on a model will complement a "normal" person more). It's telling that the areas that she had less input on or didn't want to given an input on were usually fine (such as the ad campaigns).
 
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i don't think ands its a fact that the project was not to replicate Karl from the first show she brought her idea reality into chanel that where mostly the commercials pieces KL did as well in between the crazy stuff ...KL now is celebrated but people where always hating on Kl chanel clothes besides the gloss of the set i always seen online and around me in industry complain about KL chanel but yet every house they have it at reference of some sort, the hate on VV is excessive and multitude of miss information and self fulling hypothesis.

she had a successful period even with not pleasing online fans but many women bought it and even more post KL with price increase that was only 6 %part of the gains of the total amount of 19% but than people will find a reason to discredit any fact of her success just to prove a point.

i find it pretty similar to the past burning woman at the stake because they were accused of being witches , by jealous neighbors or vindictive lovers etc etc

PPP , new MC Queen guy , Ancora guy, Kim at fendi , and many more male designer that do boring and crapy shows yet expert voices online don't speak as loudly distaste as much as they do now regarding VV

it just made me stand back and think what is going on here?!

yes again i dont like ever look she did same for KL but i have respect for both in different ways.


I just been thinking about this woman in general in fashion positions on all levels , knowing that the gay fashion mafia is alive and well even as newer generations get into the system /industry

Why no one ask why most successful female designers do commericlay well and get flack for it , i don't have the answers but i'm thinking out loud hoping others have insightful perspectives that lead to more clarity and new discussion beyond simple like or dislike.
I have been watching too. it's something to really look at because she was sort of attack brutally,. even if you go on some of the threads in the same fashion community you see where high-end couture clients were purchasing her clothing and customizing them as they always have but for some reason people just really hate her out of the go, now she wasn't perfect but if you look at a lot of her male counterparts they are not that great! Even if you go and look back at galliano where you have costumes and extreme over exaggerated looks. The same thing with Sarah at McQueen the same thing with Maria at Dior. They seem to get a lot of extra hate I think it comes from people not understanding the difference between real women and drag queens or their gay vision of what a woman should look like. All in all so much chicness in fashion has dissolved and disappeared
 

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