Virginie Viard - Designer

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Scotty said:
her latest RTW collections.
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Your honor, how do you explain the 23% growth in the RTW sector 😭

"Blondiaux added: 'Since Virginie took over as a designer of Chanel fashion, more or less in five years, and last year alone, the Chanel ready-to-wear business grew by 23 per cent.'”

www.voguebusiness.com

Unstoppable Chanel: CEO Leena Nair on doubling revenue in a decade

Nair and Chanel CFO Philippe Blondiaux speak to Vogue Business about building a $20 billion business in a downturn.
www.voguebusiness.com www.voguebusiness.com
 
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We don't know those pics are because of Virginie or in what era, some seems taken a long time ago.
And also, for the growth of RTW, well partly due to Chanel is taking a similar selling strategy as Hermes.
If you want the bag, you can't have it directly right now, requires certain purchasing in RTW department then to be offered the bag.
Virginie had some practical and nice design for sure, but overall, I don't think customers are really that interested in her own narrative, it is the brand's code and reputation that helps her greatly.
Her collections, especially recent ones are hurting the brand's image and creativity for sure, everybody can see that.
The Wertheimer are no fool, if all that growth is driven by her capacity like Karl did, then she will stay. In fact, she was just lucky to borrow good wind in past 5 years
 
chanelh said:
If you want the bag, you can't have it directly right now, requires certain purchasing in RTW department then to be offered the bag.
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Nah, you can go into Chanel and buy anything you want if it's in stock. They don't play the Hermes game, afaik. If you had to buy a certain amount of RTW to get a bag there's no way in hell you'd see anyone with a classic flap, 2.55, wallet on chain, or a Chanel garbage bag, etc.
 
While sales have started slowing down in the West (Americas and Europe), C and H still show strong figures in all sectors in the East.

First photo has a timestamp of June 2022 (Seoul); second taken on December 2023 in Zhengzhou (China); third taken on November 23, 2022; fourth on February 15, 2021 (Beijing).

Chanel Ginza line up on

April 7, 2024
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December 30, 2023

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Agree with @Scotty though that these are mostly what CC-suites calls "bag ladies" (ones who never buy RTW).

Quoting @Kennnnn :
Kennnnn said:
That's interesting to me. I live and travel regularly across East Asia, and I've never seen so many people wear Chanel.

In the last five years or so, Chanel seems to have cultivated entirely new groups of customers - a lot younger for one, but also a more aspirational crowd - people that a casual observer of my generation wouldn't even think of as a Chanel customer.

From what I've heard, from friends who work at or work with Chanel, sales are booming across categories, from cosmetics to high jewellery.
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brandon J pierre said:
Even if you go and look back at galliano where you have costumes and extreme over exaggerated looks. The same thing with Sarah at McQueen the same thing with Maria at Dior. They seem to get a lot of extra hate I think it comes from people not understanding the difference between real women and drag queens or their gay vision of what a woman should look like. All in all so much chicness in fashion has dissolved and disappeared
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I don't think the new fellow at McQueen is getting much love compared to Sarah Burton and it's not like Raf was immune to intense criticism either at Dior prior to MGC.

I don't think gay men expect women to come out looking like a Galliano couture show. Come on. I think it probably comes from their lack of understanding of how the fashion business works and is turning / how the dominant markets dictate what these fashion businesses cater to (i.e. logo merch pieces sell well in Asia and metropolitan cities and certain fits/lengths that do not complement the women body as well sell better in the Middle East). As I stated, the hate could be shifted more towards executives who are turning previously creative fashion houses into merch factories; do not let the clever marketing of "clothes for real women" fool you. I'm sure if the next creative director at Chanel or Dior churns out uninspired collections, they will get just as much criticism as VV and MGC (or in turn VV and MGC will get some post-tenure praise among the gays such as what has occurred for Sarah Burton).

Of course, there is the issue of sexism among gay men but...I think most gay men adore women because they adore beauty and value the power of femininity of women. You can't say men like Ghesquiere, Alaia, Elbaz, Karl, YSL, TF, Anthony V. do not adore women. And obviously their "gay vision" hit some cord because many "real" women did/do still love their creations (in both accesories and clothing propositions).

After my long winded responses on this thread, I still ask myself why exactly are we so concerned about protecting people, who make six to seven figures in their salaries, from criticism?
 
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For me locally, there's always a line at Chanel on weekends, and never at Hermes. I quite dislike the Chanel 'experience,' and would rather buy from a department store (if at all). OTOH I generally love my Hermes SA and the experience there (apart from the stock issues, that is).
 
DILF said:
With all due respect, your honor, logo pieces do extremely well in 'Merica and in Europe as well 😭
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American and European cities are grouped in "Metropolitan cities". But, as an Asian-American who lived in Asia and now lives in an American metro city, I appreciate you trying to check me! Give yourself a pat on the back as well.
 
One thing about Virginie is that she has an identity with Chanel that is special to her. This identity has been shaped and influenced for nearly 30 years, and she had the best teacher in Karl. But as the reports read from MISS TWEED I am not surprised that she would react to such a larger social response to her collections. She was able to hide away behind Karl for all of her time at Chanel. She revived 80's house code, likely because it represented her nostalgia of a time when she was just starting as an intern. While I didn't think she was doing what needed to be done, she was still presenting a view point from her own creative vision. It just wasn't what we wanted.

Tried to really push to understand where she was going with the concepts, and understand what she was layering as a design focus but it all felt really disjointed. Must've been so heartbreaking for her to make the decision to leave, knowing that a label like Chanel was bending to create support levels for her- that's really astonishing, no other labels are doing that. It shows the delicate approach that management has, in a real way. Chanel is a jewel in fashion- the most coveted, the strongest identity with what Karl expanded upon and really so clear a house code that it's almost indestructible. Now the strength of the house will be tested. With all the inner workings going on, the house should take its time to re-appoint.

Maybe there is another younger designer already there at Chanel, with similar history to Virginie. Someone who was similarly developed and also worked with Karl, but is able to really deliver and be confident. To take the lead, and stop the presses; really give us the Chanel we know and love. The Chanel that makes you dream, makes you feel like the label is a whole other world unto itself. Can't say I was surprised that Virginie left, just shocked at how soon. Definitely tried to push myself to understand where she was going, maybe she finally admitted to herself that she didn't know which way she was going. One thing about Karl- he had a vision. Virginie should've been dreaming of taking over and really utilize Karl to hone in on instinctual development as an artist, he would've been her greatest teacher. I can only assume that dialogue between them; but as clear a leader as Karl was; it feels like Virginie was cooperative in her polite way, which worked for Chanel of the past; and she really needed to be a new version of herself to be a new version leader for Chanel. She gave up the biggest seat in fashion.
 
blueorchid said:
Nah, you can go into Chanel and buy anything you want if it's in stock. They don't play the Hermes game, afaik. If you had to buy a certain amount of RTW to get a bag there's no way in hell you'd see anyone with a classic flap, 2.55, wallet on chain, or a Chanel garbage bag, etc.
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Yeah, you can get access to Chanel bags, even exclusives or limited editions pretty quickly. If you are dressed well, know what to say and are clear about your asks, you can be partnered with an SA who will show you whatever you want. Definitely no Hermes games there. It's really about setting up an appt, which isn't hard Chanel guest services can set it up quick.

I think this is what's become of Chanel, that it's becoming too accessible in certain ways. With the expansion of Chanel Beauty, even moreso. Even the number of people inside the boutiques has gone up, sometimes crowded- not luxury. New CD needs to scale that back. Make people wait in line, create some allure and prestige again.
 
blueorchid said:
Nah, you can go into Chanel and buy anything you want if it's in stock. They don't play the Hermes game, afaik. If you had to buy a certain amount of RTW to get a bag there's no way in hell you'd see anyone with a classic flap, 2.55, wallet on chain, or a Chanel garbage bag, etc.
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not the case here, maybe things easier in other market, Chanel doesn't play it hard & obvious like Hermes, but the sales would keep telling you a certain color or type not in stock and save them for VICs, at one point my friend wanted a nice RTW to decent her account and the sales even implied her need to purchase an other RTW to get this one
 
"An example is the fact that he has barred Miss Tweed from attending Chanel's shows." This is hilarious！
 
Overindulgence said:
Of course, there is the issue of sexism among gay men but...I think most gay men adore women because they adore beauty and value the power of femininity of women. You can't say men like Ghesquiere, Alaia, Elbaz, Karl, YSL, TF, Anthony V. do not adore women. And obviously their "gay vision" hit some cord because many "real" women did/do still love their creations (in both accesories and clothing propositions).

After my long winded responses on this thread, I still ask myself why exactly are we so concerned about protecting people that people who make six to seven figures in their salaries from criticism?
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I think there's a bit of a disconnect in this thread (and not necessarily your post) regarding sexism from gay men towards women. When women point it out, it does not mean it has been happening all along and in "all" cases of gay men designing womenswear. Similarly, it does not mean women, just by sex, are or should be above any criticism, particularly in high-pressure positions that put skills, knowledge and experience to the test. The idea that standards should be lowered because.. women, is pretty awful.

I hope I can articulate this properly because it's been a long day and I'm very much aware that the majority of this forum changed about a decade ago from women, to a large majority of gay men. The way I see it, with fashion becoming highly corporate, the bro dynamics of the average straight men in finance made their way into fashion and have naturally found compatibilities with those who resemble them the most and understand their need for profit and who, just like them, place male privilege in a non-negotiable area, and have less nuances in their relationship with the product. Where men (gay or straight) see models, women tend to see women, and when it comes to models with the product, they see themselves or women they admire. As small as this is, and as common as it used to be among men who understood the privilege (not a right) of designing for women (Alber, Alaia), this creates a major discrepancy on the amount of reservations and compromises some women make when designing and the vastly different attitude among the male designers that are sheltered by the suits, who will have no qualms in building a brand on irony, p*rn culture, stereotypes, mockery, whatever brings quick revenue. It isn't that personal to them and it is crucial for them to remain in good terms with the finance bros that now control fashion so they WILL relinquish whatever understanding they had on why and how they came to design clothes for women, at their expense, in favor of the men who demand numbers.

To say 'oh but it's only a minority buying it anyway, why care so much?' is to downplay the role of the beauty industry, luxury and how fashion, as unoriginal and commercial as it is now, dictates dress codes in pop culture and the role of pop culture in society and how that influences the way we see each other (from socioeconomic background, to race, to how we sexualise each other, what we think is unattractive or terribly unattractive).

Now, some men will insist men have the same right to design for women just like some white men will claim they suffer from discrimination against whites. You can choose to come to a conclusion based on the surface ('should curly-haired people not design for women either?! what a savage idea!!') and on whatever sounds correct so that it doesn't change the status quo for you, or.. you can dive into the more demanding task of understanding context and the market that keeps you employed: women, just like gay men, were oppressed for centuries. While gay men could afford to remain in the closet and maybe lead a double life while still get treated like respectable men in society, women could not just hide their nature, the very thing that kept them oppressed and without rights. Their ultimate goal in life (it was survival, social acceptance and something close to a career) was to be picked by a man and get married, and how did you get picked by a man? by appearance, an appearance that should exclusively accommodate how men wanted to see us and we had to compete against other women so we could be picked. In simple terms and with exceptions, that's how the cookie crumbled for many many, MANY years. Now, some completely disconnected from any news on.. women (other than following the fantasy of womenswear of course), might say 'boohoo sure but that's the past'.. no, for most women around the world, the dress code is still centered around the desire of men to see us a certain way or to not see us at all. It is still very much a reality and it is deeply problematic. How we look/dress is both a tool and a weapon, a factor in success and in failure, it's never been just what we put on, or your vehicle to unleash creativity. We don't get a pat on the back regardless of clothes because we're one of the bros. I work in one of the most progressive cities in the world and we are all still judged by how 'fashionable' our work attire is, something that is absolutely not applicable to my male colleagues (they literally all show up in the same blue shirt on the same day and no one bats an eye). 'Fashionable' and 'desirable' attire is dictated by the beauty industry and global conglomerates, that's why what was 'hot' and cool in 1927 or 1981 looks very different from what's hot and cool in 2024. Desirability needs novelty. What society wants from women and the ability of fashion to capture that and fast goes hand in hand. That's why it's such a lucrative business and I'm not just talking about the luxury sector (which is the top of the pyramid).

Since the moment we can talk, women get used to men expressing their opinion on how they look. It is second nature. It is a difficult relationship just like conventional masculinity, the demand to be 'masculine' and the stigma of 'flamboyance' has a constant presence around gay men. Personally, hearing men in this forum talk with so much authority on womenswear to the point of even trying in some cases to exclude or belittle the opinion of women for no reason (just because they said they knew more).. I never made much out of it, it seemed totally natural because.. that's what I grew up listening to, but much to the disadvantage of the gay men who have genuine respect and appreciation for women, who created selflessly and as true ride-or-dies because they had received the same from women (when the men who now claim to endorse them wanted nothing to do with them), the viciousness of the past years (especially the persistent argument that women are less qualified than men to design their own clothes) did stop me on my tracks and raised questions, which leads me to my last point:

It's not that Virginie or Maria Grazia made great collections that received unfair commentary or that they should be spared from criticism. It's the fact that the criticism has been related to the fact that they're women. That entitlement that businessmen have nurtured in gay men in recent years has spread like wildfire among the men who follow fashion, probably aided by drag shows and the idolization of the 'sassy' character that puts people in 'their place'. In the last 2-3 years in this forum and even just this morning with a now deleted post that claimed that gay men should never be criticised, the discourse towards women is no different AT ALL than the typical abusive male dynamics of questioning their professional skills, making fun of them, denigrating them by bringing up their period/ovaries. If anyone dared using any of the historical insults towards gay men (not natural, freak, perv, you name it), there would be an uproar. Just the fact that someone brought this up and some are having a meltdown because 'how dare you question men who profit from influencing female beauty standards?' says enough on how entitled some feel and.. they probably think that if they double down, women will back down but in this time and age, it will only raise more questions until the opposite version of this intolerance emerges and demands on womenswear by women become public discourse. It will be unfair and sad but extreme attitudes trigger extreme reactions especially in an area where male presence has been less than positive.

And yeah oMg this post is soo long it'S NoT tHaT dEeP, but if this picks up steam and in a few years it becomes not so cool to be a man designing womeswear, don't say you didn't have plenty of time to reflect on/revise stereotypes..
 
PDFSD said:
If one complains about Chanel prices its simple ...its not for them........they clearly have proven for years with KL and VV that they have wealthy clients willing to pay for whatever they make and sell. period !!

Rolls Royce and Bentley also uses parts from Volkswagen and BMW and ask high prices for there cars.

At Rolls Royce, they say “If you have to ask the price, you can’t afford it.”

This Democratic idea of luxury is a woke idea not making for better products, because brands see potential to sell more and cut corners to produce more and sell more.

Luxury and fashion is not rational its emotional (these cost per wear and girl math and investment idea´s of betting on what items to buy so you know you can resell and retain some value is a concept that is promoted and accelerated with these social media influencers mentally for the masses.

Regarding poor quality and fragility of precious materials is also a big confused misconception , that if something is expensive does not mean its unbreakable or not fragile.

On quality ALL brands cut corners in production of there goods....news flash even Hermes on production of items cuts corners in order to protect margins and make profit, some do it more visible than others that is a fact!! and Chanel is not immune to this.
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Three-legged stool means that all three happen together.
Hermes is comparatively much more reasonable - the kellys and the birkins didn't have nearly as much price hike, nor did the quality drop THIS much.

I told the story before. Our store manager proudly announced to me that Chanel jackets now have less fabric between seams so that the jackets are lighter.

The flip side though is that if one gains weight down the road, the jackets won't be let out as much to accommodate. Obviously this is for profit, not for the weight of the jackets. The insult is not from the price. The insult is on my intelligence.

Call me poor and I don't care.
 
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