12 yr old Dakota Fanning in controversial new film role

[*Happiness*]

With all due respect Happiness, I think you have entirely missed the point of this debate.

SIL, with respect.....I have not missed the entire point of this debate...I am bringing a different view of this debate. Most of the posters before me...are totally against this movie and feel that it is wrong and I don't agree so I haven't missed anything.

What has Dakota playing the part have anything to do with the film being made and how good it is?

Being that I haven't seen the film nor worked on the film...I cannot say that it will be good or not.

Not having a 12 year old in a r*pe scene somehow doesn't equate to pushing things under the rugs (just out of linguistic interest (not being sarcastic!) why did you use inverted commas there?) And the only discussion this will spark, believe you me, is that Hollywood is becoming more and more money hungry and that we, the Western world, are full of some sick sh*t.

SIL, with respect. I do believe that a lot of "touchy" subjects are "pushed under the rug"....meaning certain topics are taboo and are rarely discussed when there seems to be a true issue in our society. To answer your question about the inverted comma...because being pushed under the rug isn't literal....so I used the quotes to make a point. And SIL, hollywood isn't the money hungry ones...its the advertisers. I work in Hollywood on films and television shows (I don't know what career path you are on)....but I know how these movies get made and who wants to see what and who makes the rules.....and didn't this movie get shut down for a while because no one wanted to fund it???? That should say something right there. And the Western World is full of sick s**t???? Wow! I think if everyone would be honest with themselves and with each other...and lay EVERYTHING out on the table (weaknesses, strengths, etc) will we then be able to make progress.

And furthermore I dont want studio executives to determine the morality of a nation or how we view laws. I want the legal system to do that for me.

The studio executives aren't determing the morality of our nation....I believe that is being done in the homes with the parenting...or is it??? I think we give others too much credit and too much say so in our lives. Morality and Values should be taught in the home...not by teachers (although individuals should lead by example)...but I am not going to give a movie permission to teach my child (if I had children) a lesson on morality and how to be a better person. If I gain something from the movie or there is a point that I picked up from the film, I will discuss it with my kids...and go from there. But to leave the sole responsiblity to someone else....I'm sorry....movies are entertainment and persons artistic expression and sometimes...movies spark interest and discussion that hopefully help (Schindler's List, The Passion of the Christ, Monster, Brokeback Mountain, Munich, etc.)

If we had mawkish films about paedophiles having Titanic-proportioned success, we'd have lynchings in the streets. And that would be ridiculous. It is up to the police to make the system of reporting rapes, functional. People are already ridiculous about the paedophile anyway. It is such as exaggerated urban fear.

Films about Pedophiles (correct spelling of the word) would we REALLY have lynchings in the streets??? SIL, With respect! Seriously, Come on! Yes, it is up the the police and the community to have a successful system on reporting crime....but if a person doesn't possess the strength to report the r*pe because they are afraid of what society will think of them....then were is our successful system of reporting r*pe???? A police officer isn't going to knock on every home in America and ask...."has anyone been raped here?" That's crazy. It's takes the citizens to smarten up and strengthen up to deal with r*pe and other heinous crimes.

Yes because at 12 years old, she is making all her career decisions for herself?!

SIL, no of course not! She isn't making the career decisions by herself....the article said that her mother/agent helped make the decision. Come on SIL, she isn't even legal to make decisions on her own...you couldn've answered that question yourself.

Can you imagine what the sort of psychotic-bimbo-hillbilly mothers who push their kids into showbusiness instead of hope they will become doctors are like?

WOW!!!!! First of all...I don't think Dakota was PUSHED into acting....she has talent! So what about the Olsen Twins parents??? Are they (as you put it) psychotic-bimbo-hillbilly mothers?????? And what about parents that "push" their kids into modeling??? Are they psychotic-bimbo-hillbilly people too? And what about parents that push their kids into singing??? Are Beyonce' parents psychotic-bimbo-hillbilly parents??? Come on!! You know that's exaggerating!

Yeah Dakota, play in a r*pe scene and sew my arm back on whilst you are at it. Oh and Timmy is stuck down a well

Not being sarcastic?

 

[M0radkhan]

I think Dakota is a great actress and that she can pull it off, but why is her agent and mom so obsessed about her getting an Oscar? I mean, she's only 12! Give her a break.. There's still so much time for her to get an Oscar.

 

[Miss Dalloway]

SIL, with respect.....I have not missed the entire point of this debate...I am bringing a different view of this debate. Most of the posters before me...are totally against this movie and feel that it is wrong and I don't agree so I haven't missed anything.



Being that I haven't seen the film nor worked on the film...I cannot say that it will be good or not.



SIL, with respect. I do believe that a lot of "touchy" subjects are "pushed under the rug"....meaning certain topics are taboo and are rarely discussed when there seems to be a true issue in our society. To answer your question about the inverted comma...because being pushed under the rug isn't literal....so I used the quotes to make a point. And SIL, hollywood isn't the money hungry ones...its the advertisers. I work in Hollywood on films and television shows (I don't know what career path you are on)....but I know how these movies get made and who wants to see what and who makes the rules.....and didn't this movie get shut down for a while because no one wanted to fund it???? That should say something right there. And the Western World is full of sick s**t???? Wow! I think if everyone would be honest with themselves and with each other...and lay EVERYTHING out on the table (weaknesses, strengths, etc) will we then be able to make progress.



The studio executives aren't determing the morality of our nation....I believe that is being done in the homes with the parenting...or is it??? I think we give others too much credit and too much say so in our lives. Morality and Values should be taught in the home...not by teachers (although individuals should lead by example)...but I am not going to give a movie permission to teach my child (if I had children) a lesson on morality and how to be a better person. If I gain something from the movie or there is a point that I picked up from the film, I will discuss it with my kids...and go from there. But to leave the sole responsiblity to someone else....I'm sorry....movies are entertainment and persons artistic expression and sometimes...movies spark interest and discussion that hopefully help (Schindler's List, The Passion of the Christ, Monster, Brokeback Mountain, Munich, etc.)



Films about Pedophiles (correct spelling of the word) would we REALLY have lynchings in the streets??? SIL, With respect! Seriously, Come on! Yes, it is up the the police and the community to have a successful system on reporting crime....but if a person doesn't possess the strength to report the r*pe because they are afraid of what society will think of them....then were is our successful system of reporting r*pe???? A police officer isn't going to knock on every home in America and ask...."has anyone been raped here?" That's crazy. It's takes the citizens to smarten up and strengthen up to deal with r*pe and other heinous crimes.



SIL, no of course not! She isn't making the career decisions by herself....the article said that her mother/agent helped make the decision. Come on SIL, she isn't even legal to make decisions on her own...you couldn've answered that question yourself.



WOW!!!!! First of all...I don't think Dakota was PUSHED into acting....she has talent! So what about the Olsen Twins parents??? Are they (as you put it) psychotic-bimbo-hillbilly mothers?????? And what about parents that "push" their kids into modeling??? Are they psychotic-bimbo-hillbilly people too? And what about parents that push their kids into singing??? Are Beyonce' parents psychotic-bimbo-hillbilly parents??? Come on!! You know that's exaggerating!



Not being sarcastic?

AMEN!

 

[SiennaInLondon]

SIL, with respect.....I have not missed the entire point of this debate...I am bringing a different view of this debate. Most of the posters before me...are totally against this movie and feel that it is wrong and I don't agree so I haven't missed anything.

No you did miss the point of the argument in question. The POINT my dear was, whether or not it is ok for a kid to play a r*pe scene. You either agree or disagree. YOU were rabbiting on about how important these sorts of movies are in breaking taboos. And I quote 'but this movie....a r*pe scene maybe this will give those who were raped as kids strength to deal and get over their past and move on'. It is TWO separate issues.

Being that I haven't seen the film nor worked on the film...I cannot say that it will be good or not.

Errr then tell me, how effective will this film be at breaking taboos? Why do you say it will? Surely a good film is far more important than an underage actress in it. Which as I said before WAS THE POINT IN QUESTION.

SIL, with respect. I do believe that a lot of "touchy" subjects are "pushed under the rug"....meaning certain topics are taboo and are rarely discussed when there seems to be a true issue in our society. To answer your question about the inverted comma...because being pushed under the rug isn't literal....so I used the quotes to make a point. And SIL, hollywood isn't the money hungry ones...its the advertisers. I work in Hollywood on films and television shows (I don't know what career path you are on)....but I know how these movies get made and who wants to see what and who makes the rules.....and didn't this movie get shut down for a while because no one wanted to fund it???? That should say something right there.

This is like banging my head against a brick wall... either you are purposely trying to misunderstand me or... well you know. I DIDN'T SAY that things weren't pushed under rugs as you like to call it. I SAID and god forbid I quote myself here, 'Not having a 12 year old in a r*pe scene somehow doesn't equate to pushing things under the rugs'. I.e. you can discuss this issue without making a child a pawn of some industry. Oh and I wan't being sarcastic honestly but since you decided to play nasty, Madame English teacher, it is incorrect to put all metaphors or idioms into inverted commas. And you know what the lack of funding says to me? It says that there are, thank goodness, some people in the studios who have a brain left.

The studio executives aren't determing the morality of our nation....I believe that is being done in the homes with the parenting...or is it??? I think we give others too much credit and too much say so in our lives. Morality and Values should be taught in the home...not by teachers (although individuals should lead by example)...but I am not going to give a movie permission to teach my child (if I had children) a lesson on morality and how to be a better person. If I gain something from the movie or there is a point that I picked up from the film, I will discuss it with my kids...and go from there. But to leave the sole responsiblity to someone else....I'm sorry....movies are entertainment and persons artistic expression and sometimes...movies spark interest and discussion that hopefully help (Schindler's List, The Passion of the Christ, Monster, Brokeback Mountain, Munich, etc.)

Agreed (though initially that is what you seemed to be implying with your paedophiles wreak (or as you spelled it, reek) havoc. That sounded like common man's paranoia if anything did). So why violate a child's working rights for some random bit of entertainment or artistic expression?

Films about Pedophiles (correct spelling of the word)

Oh my dear, as you have seen I wouldn't challenge me on my English if I were you Reek havoc? 'pushing under rugs'? As for PAEDOPHILE, I speak ACTUAL English, not some bastardisation, so that is how I shall continue to spell it. You can use the term 'pedophile' if you want but if someone thinks you are referring to FOOT FETISHISTS, I reserve the right to say I told you so.

Would we REALLY have lynchings in the streets??? SIL, With respect! Seriously, Come on! Yes, it is up the the police and the community to have a successful system on reporting crime....but if a person doesn't possess the strength to report the r*pe because they are afraid of what society will think of them....then were is our successful system of reporting r*pe???? A police officer isn't going to knock on every home in America and ask...."has anyone been raped here?" That's crazy. It's takes the citizens to smarten up and strengthen up to deal with r*pe and other heinous crimes.

No we REALLY wouldn't! It is called HYPERBOLE. Now I know why you put all metaphors into inverted commas. They are like little signposts for you. So your solution to people feeling shame after r*pe is to make a r*pe movie with a 12 year old girl. Just tell me where I sign to vote you into office. And at least in my society, r*pe is NOT a shameful thing. The shame is a natural but unfortunate side effect of being physically voilated without consent. Society has little to do with this issue. Admittedly I live in a very progressive modern place without pesky religion or what not so I am not saying it is the same elsewhere. However, if you come from California as you seem to say (?) then it should be the same.

SIL, no of course not! She isn't making the career decisions by herself....the article said that her mother/agent helped make the decision. Come on SIL, she isn't even legal to make decisions on her own...you couldn've answered that question yourself.

Omg are you challenged? You have just counter argued your entire point (if you had one). She isn't legal to make decisions on her own and she isn't legal to act in a r*pe scene or be nude on screen. Bingo.

WOW!!!!! First of all...I don't think Dakota was PUSHED into acting....she has talent! So what about the Olsen Twins parents??? Are they (as you put it) psychotic-bimbo-hillbilly mothers?????? And what about parents that "push" their kids into modeling??? Are they psychotic-bimbo-hillbilly people too? And what about parents that push their kids into singing??? Are Beyonce' parents psychotic-bimbo-hillbilly parents??? Come on!! You know that's exaggerating!

Oh so she has talent therefore she arrived in Hollywood of her own accord? Good logic woman (or man? or trannie?). Err and yes, all those people's parents you mentioned sound awfully common to me. A parent should NOT be happy about these sorts of careers unless put AFTER academia. Model_Mom on these boards made sure her daughter was old enough and had an academic career to fall back on before she let her daughter go into modelling. That is how it should be done. COME ON DARLING! Is Beyonce the pinnacle of academic achievement in your eyes? Actually on second thoughts I already know the answer to that one...

Not being sarcastic?

Aww sugar *giggle* *swoon* you made my day!

Oh and Mellowdrama I am still in love with you. You make me keep faith in your nation, because posts like the one I am responding to, sure dont.

 

[SiennaInLondon]

Oh and Emil? Try responding to my post.

 

[Ithillien]

^ i'd give you karma but it won't let me

 

[SiennaInLondon]

Not to worry Ithillien. Just keep being my CSM mentor and we are good!

 

[electricladyland]

I DIDN'T SAY that things weren't pushed under rugs as you like to call it. I SAID and god forbid I quote myself here, 'Not having a 12 year old in a r*pe scene somehow doesn't equate to pushing things under the rugs'. I.e. you can discuss this issue without making a child a pawn of some industry. Oh and I wan't being sarcastic honestly but since you decided to play nasty, Madame English teacher, it is incorrect to put all metaphors or idioms into inverted commas. And you know what the lack of funding says to me? It says that there are, thank goodness, some people in the studios who have a brain left.



Agreed (though initially that is what you seemed to be implying with your paedophiles wreak (or as you spelled it, reek) havoc. That sounded like common man's paranoia if anything did). So why violate a child's working rights for some random bit of entertainment or artistic expression?



Oh my dear, as you have seen I wouldn't challenge me on my English if I were you Reek havoc? 'pushing under rugs'? As for PAEDOPHILE, I speak ACTUAL English, not some bastardisation, so that is how I shall continue to spell it. You can use the term 'pedophile' if you want but if someone thinks you are referring to FOOT FETISHISTS, I reserve the right to say I told you so.

As someone who speaks a "bastardized" version of the English language and spells the word PEDOPHILES, i still find this last comment HILARIOUS!! Maybe it's because i also happen to agree with SiennaInLondon on the issues at hand. We have no idea what the intent is behind the filmmakers depicting a graphic r*pe scene. However, I'm sure it does not require a 12 year old to do it.

 

[SiennaInLondon]

But pedo/pes=foot no electricladyland? Pedal, pedometer, pedologist, pedicab. The 'a' in paediatrician or paedophile sure eases my confusion!

 

[Miss Dalloway]

Oh and Emil? Try responding to my post.

You are seriously rude in some of your comments i guess it dosent come easy to you to express your views without insulting other peoples and since we alredy had this disscussion in other forum i am going to ignore your comments no matter what the disscusion is!

 

[VainJane]

As for PAEDOPHILE, I speak ACTUAL English, not some bastardisation, so that is how I shall continue to spell it. You can use the term 'pedophile' if you want but if someone thinks you are referring to FOOT FETISHISTS, I reserve the right to say I told you so.

I looked it up in the dictionary and it's spelled paedophile in the British version and then it is also spelled pedophile in the American version.

While I agree with your arguement SIL, I'd appreciate it if you didn't refer to the way some of us Americans speak/spell as the 'bastardisation' of English.

 

[shoegal2183]

I have always wondered how roles like this or others where child actors/actresses play disturbing roles (the lines they say..the actions they do) affect the child and their development outside of their jobs.

 

[Deleted member 1957]

They should get an adult actress that can pull off playing a 12 year old even for that particular role. Theres no way anyone can justify a child playing a r*pe scene however brilliant or oscar worthy the script may be. child is a child! Hollywood quite often forgets that and in most cases ends up with messed up former child stars. Shame on her mother for letting her daughter play such a role.

 

[uberwench]

Whilst I'm inclined to reserve judgement on this, I have to admit that it makes me uneasy.

I think SIL's point is well made -Fanning is a very good actress, and no doubt pains were taken to ensure that she wasn't in any way discomforted when shooting the scene, but (even though she seems much more mature than her age suggests) she's still very young. I think you would have to have a deep understanding of r*pe and the effects of r*pe to play such a scene well -and hearing accounts of r*pe and the ordeals of r*pe victims is something I find traumatic. I wouldn't want to put my 12 year old cousins in the position where they had to think about these things in any more graphic detail than 'don't speak to strangers; stay safe'.

The idea of 'loss of innocence' is very twee (and I hate to apply it to someone I don't know at all), and for all I know Fanning knows the full meaning of what it is to be raped: but I don't see that anything would be lost by using an older actress who looks younger and Fanning waiting a few years until SHE is old enough to decide what she wants herself immortalised on film doing; and is old enough to really sink herself into the disturbing subject-matter. The only people who lose out are those who want to know that they are seeing an ACTUAL 12 year old onscreen -and they deserve to lose out.


Aesthetically, I trust this director to do a good job, have heard good things. I absolutely disagree with anyone who says that films depicting acts like this should be censored -this is where Happiness' point actually has relevence -these things happen, and being simply disgusted or lamenting the distastefulness of a film depicting them is a sickeningly superficial response. Be disgusted by the fact that abuse happens -not by the reflection it casts in the arts.

However, I think casting an actual 12 year old is likely to be aesthetically detrimental. I found Larry Clark's 'Kid's' very powerful, but I found the graphic scenes of sex between underage children discomforting because there was such an aspect of voyeurism -I didn't feel like I was simply observing an act, but became implicated in it which was distracting.

 

[mellowdrama]

"Bastardization" (or "bastardisation") isn't a curse word! American English is a bastardization of British English! Don't feel hurt!

However, this is the third thread that either I or Sienna have broached the topic of FOOT FETISHISM without warrant, neglecting both the feelings of foot fetishists and the delicate sensibilities of our younger members. For that, I apologize. Or apologise. Okay, I feel bad about it. Or badly about it.

Let's stay on topic, then, no semantics, no foot fetishism--this thread is about cinematic child r*pe, specifically of Dakota Fanning. Let's treat it and each other with the gravity and respect we all deserve!

 

[*Happiness*]

Sienna in London, thank you for my nickname 'Madame English'...I it!!!! It fits me well, I remember growing up my dad would have my sisters and I read one book everyday and my mom made reading charts for us to keep track of our progress. It was an awesome experience for me! So Madame. English works!

I appreciate the argument and your points of view. I simply disagree with you...and will not play nasty or counterattack. It's simply not worth it.

I think Dakota Fanning is a fine actress...and I wish her much success on this projects and many more to come.

And thanks to everyone who understand (understood) my pov and either agreed or disagreed.

Sincerely,

Madame English.

 

[smartarse]

I saw the lover and didnt find it disturbing or overly graphic and by the way it didnt do the book justice!!

The uncut version was more explicit. there's this shot of the two making love but of course they deleted that for the world wide audience so they could get the R rated and not NC-17. That split minute shot would leave you to wonder whether they did it or not and Jane March was just 14 when they filmed it. Hence, the controversey ensued. I think in the end it was beautifully done. Very sensual without being p*rnographic. I loved the book as well. I'm a fan of Duras.

 

[KhaoticKharma]

I'm gonna wait and see the final product before passing too much judgement.

 

[smartarse]

oh and by the way, Hollywood does not shy away from rewarding movies where women are demeaned, abused, or murdered.

True. They did award, Jodie, Halle, Hilary and Charleze. But there might be an exception when a minor (Fanning) portrays an abusee. But who knows. The Academy is known to make a 180.

 

[mellowdrama]

I'm gonna wait and see the final product before passing too much judgement.

This is the very goal of controversy, buzz, scandal, and intrigue. The filmmakers would do well with a sneak preview with a "PASS JUDGMENT HERE" polling booth in the cinema lobby. Let's hope for a Richard Kern-esque take on pedophile r*pe: I don't think it's been done yet, but I'm sure Dakota and Lydia Lunch would get on just fine.