Balmain Mens F/W 09.10 Paris

[ETROsexualJ]

I don't care...I enjoy getting a rise out of people. Means that someone is doing something right!

 

[Deleted member 7575]

^^ well maybe 'judgemental' was too strong a word...
i guess i just wanted to say that i wouldnt like to be in his place. not so nice posting what you last bought and instead of the usual karma spread and the 'you look great' comments following, what you get is people asking why wouldnt you just buy that at zara...
(i particularly remember a pair of chanel wedges that once went straight from "the secret shopaholics thread", to "the ugliest shoes you have ever seen" ... quite serious )
of course we shouldnt praise everything that is posted, but sometimes being just 'silent' about it is a much more effective way of showing you don't like it, hm?

I'm always going to give my own honest view, in this case it's about Balmain and and its customer. If one poster happens to be a customer that will not keep me from giving my honest view.

The issue remains about Balmain, regardless if ETRO had bought it or not, is that there is nothing inherent in its fabrication, construction, or design beyond the Balmain label that would warrant their price. This cannot be denied. And if this is so then clearly people are buying and wearing the label for other reasons...

 

[simons]

at least their shirts dont have "balmain balmain balmain" literally written all over it

 

[Fuuma]

1) Value may be a topic worthy of discussion but when it comes to an individual customer, in this case Etro, he definitely judged that the price asked for the items was something he was willing to pay for what he got so who cares. He's savvy and has not illusions about what he buys and why he buys it, most operate under the false conception that they buy garments for objective and physical qualities when the "experience" and the signifiers associated w. the clothes are what really matters in the end.

2) I think Balmain men, for the most part, look like late 90s-early 2000s beauf (some sortof dork/chav/idiot) clothes and think it's a vile, vile label. I wouldn't get it from H&M (where I don't shop) or Balmain (where I don't shop either). Not everything has to be about the price. I give girls a pass because that socialista/of the moment/ hey rich girls! vibe can be somewhat cool for a chick. It's still 80s Versace with the strass and all so I'm not a big fan of the womenswear either.

 

[laika]

1) Value may be a topic worthy of discussion but when it comes to an individual customer, in this case Etro, he definitely judged that the price asked for the items was something he was willing to pay for what he got so who cares. He's savvy and has not illusions about what he buys and why he buys it, most operate under the false conception that they buy garments for objective and physical qualities when the "experience" and the signifiers associated w. the clothes are what really matters in the end.

2) I think Balmain men, for the most part, look like late 90s-early 2000s beauf (some sortof dork/chav/idiot) clothes and think it's a vile, vile label. I wouldn't get it from H&M (where I don't shop) or Balmain (where I don't shop either). Not everything has to be about the price. I give girls a pass because that socialista/of the moment/ hey rich girls! vibe can be somewhat cool for a chick. It's still 80s Versace with the strass and all so I'm not a big fan of the womenswear either.

All very well articulated, and I agree, to a limited extent.

But, what on earth is Balmain Homme signifying and to whom? It's different from the women's line in this respect, as you are implying.


Sometimes i think Etro does things for the sheer fun of the ensuing controversy (not that there is anything wrong with that)....

 

[Fuuma]

All very well articulated, and I agree, to a limited extent.

But, what on earth is Balmain Homme signifying and to whom? It's different from the women's line in this respect, as you are implying.


Sometimes i think Etro does things for the sheer fun of the ensuing controversy (not that there is anything wrong with that)....

Balmain homme is late 90s french urban white trash as far as I'm concerned. It's a less interesting throwback than the total 80s glam/sexy/body conscious women's line.

 

[mikeijames]

i don't mean to get into the whole judgement circle firing squad, but as much as the detractors want to disagree with it, the balmain name DOES have quite a bit of cachet in many many circles. also, i don't know where the majority of posters procure their tee shirts, denim, and scarves, but it's just as marked up. i'd argue that a lot of the price has to do with the exclusivity of the brands. just because you happen to be a fan of drkshdw or cheap monday instead of balmain doesn't mean they don't operate on the exact same business principles when it comes to price.

 

[Thefrenchy]

i don't mean to get into the whole judgement circle firing squad, but as much as the detractors want to disagree with it, the balmain name DOES have quite a bit of cachet in many many circles.

what "cachet" are you talking about?

also, i don't know where the majority of posters procure their tee shirts, denim, and scarves, but it's just as marked up. i'd argue that a lot of the price has to do with the exclusivity of the brands. just because you happen to be a fan of drkshdw or cheap monday instead of balmain doesn't mean they don't operate on the exact same business principles when it comes to price.

who's denying that here?

 

[Deleted member 7575]

i don't mean to get into the whole judgement circle firing squad, but as much as the detractors want to disagree with it, the balmain name DOES have quite a bit of cachet in many many circles. also, i don't know where the majority of posters procure their tee shirts, denim, and scarves, but it's just as marked up. i'd argue that a lot of the price has to do with the exclusivity of the brands. just because you happen to be a fan of drkshdw or cheap monday instead of balmain doesn't mean they don't operate on the exact same business principles when it comes to price.

Everything gets marked up but it's not all the same ratio. A lot of expensive clothes are sold, but they're also not all deserving of their pricetag.

Balmain may have some cache, it's super hot, but labels that are super hot tend to get very cold very quickly. I agree with tricot, the look is a bit over.

 

[mikeijames]

what "cachet" are you talking about?

balmain stands as one of those brands these days that evokes a very particular prestige. it's why the stuff sells out.

who's denying that here?

why do we have this sort of reaction over the purchase of t-shirts and jeans and the lack of this sort of reaction over the items posted from the marni collection or the yohji collection? it's a raw double standard.

 

[mikeijames]

Everything gets marked up but it's not all the same ratio. A lot of expensive clothes are sold, but they're also not all deserving of their pricetag.

there exist clothes at all pricepoints that have varying ratios of retail and wholesale markup. just because a company does not experiment with and/or source high end fabrics does not mean they increase the price less. just because a pair of jeans costs $50 or $300 dollars does not mean they marked it up at a lesser ratio than balmain. for the most part, it has to do with protecting one's market position and brand image.

Balmain may have some cache, it's super hot, but labels that are super hot tend to get very cold very quickly. I agree with tricot, the look is a bit over.

while i understand how quickly hot fashion brands can burn out, i also like to point out that many of the brands that start out with this type of buzz continue on for years and years and years when headed by competent designers. i don't believe decarnin is a fool and i hope he's able to evolve this brand to capitalize on the buzz it's had for the past two or three seasons. i'd argue that brands like proenza schouler, stella mccartney, and dsquared show that this buzz often translates into longer term success even with the loud criticisms from the fashion elite.

 

[ETROsexualJ]

"You talk like Marlene Dietrich
And you dance like Zizi Jeanmaire
Your clothes are all made by Balmain
And there's diamonds and pearls in your hair, yes there are

You live in a fancy apartment
Off the Boulevard Saint-Michel
Where you keep your Rolling Stones records
And a friend of Sacha Distel, yes you do"

 

[Thefrenchy]

balmain stands as one of those brands these days that evokes a very particular prestige. it's why the stuff sells out.

Oh, please... Prestige, Prestige We must not have the same definition of prestige... I like what they do for women but face it, Balmain is the typical nouveau riches "it" thing. Make nice clubbing-ish and sightly tacky clothes (i know they did something different in the past seasons, but they're "it" since fw08/ss09), put a super high price that for things that really doesn't worth such a price tag and let "those who can" buying it, so it can become a "see, I can afford Balmain" thing.
You'll tell me it's the same with many things in fashion but, with Balmain, it's just so so obvious...

 

[mikeijames]

You'll tell me it's the same with many things in fashion but, with Balmain, it's just so so obvious...

we'll have to agree to disagree because i don't understand what's oh-so-obvious about balmain and oh-so-subtle about other overpriced staples like chanel jackets, givenchy heels, stella mccartney suits, marni dresses, bottega totes, isabel marant tops, band of outsiders shirts, thom browne suits, etc.

the true luxury shopper isn't a price shopper. the same girl who wears super-expensive balmain by night can slum it out in super-cheap topshop basics by day....

 

[Thefrenchy]

^I don't know if you're skipping some parts of the posts but I'll say it again, don't tell me there isn't a difference between charging a lot for BLAND BLACK JEANS and charging a lot for a pair of Givenchy heels which implies a lot of creativity work etc

Anyway, you're a "Balmaniac" so yes, let's agree to disagree because it'll take hours and hours if we keep on talking about it. To me, the Balmain shopper isn't a classic luxury shopper in the way I understand it... Balmain, more than any other brand, is all about showing off. Not saying it's a bad thing, I'd just wish some people would assume it instead of trying to make us think that they buy it for the oh-so-amazing quality and design.

 

[mikeijames]

^I don't know if you're skipping some parts of the posts but I'll say it again, don't tell me there isn't a difference between charging a lot for BLAND BLACK JEANS...

did givenchy put twice as much "quality and design" into their basic black shoe than manolo blahnik? is that why the former charges $1620 for their sandal while the latter chages $745 for a similar style?

my larger point is that it's kind of crazy to pick apart why different brands charge different prices for seemingly similar luxury items. i mean, you don't hear a patek phillippe client asking why their timepiece cost more or less than a vacheron or a girard or a jaeger. it's just a pointless exercise.

 

[Deleted member 7575]

there exist clothes at all pricepoints that have varying ratios of retail and wholesale markup. just because a company does not experiment with and/or source high end fabrics does not mean they increase the price less. just because a pair of jeans costs $50 or $300 dollars does not mean they marked it up at a lesser ratio than balmain. for the most part, it has to do with protecting one's market position and brand image.



while i understand how quickly hot fashion brands can burn out, i also like to point out that many of the brands that start out with this type of buzz continue on for years and years and years when headed by competent designers. i don't believe decarnin is a fool and i hope he's able to evolve this brand to capitalize on the buzz it's had for the past two or three seasons. i'd argue that brands like proenza schouler, stella mccartney, and dsquared show that this buzz often translates into longer term success even with the loud criticisms from the fashion elite.

I work in the industry, I know how garments get costed. I know what kinds of details, workmanship, finishings, fabrics, techniques, printing, cutting, and shipping add to the pricing of clothes. There is nothing in Balmain that should require it to be that much more than Acne, but it's almost 3 times the price. Work it out...

Prestige of Balmain eh? The name was nothing only 5 years ago. The house was never one of the greats, playing second fiddle to Dior and Balenciaga during the golden years of couture. He made a name for himself with expensive evening wear, and that's it really. Oscar de La Renta revived the house to a certain degree in the 90's but the house didn't get looked at until Decarnin came a long and even that was only after a couple seasons in.

Absolutely Decarnin has the ability to make it a popular name again, he already has. But he's going to have find a new schtick soon. People can buy what they want, but the fact that Balmain is so high in value for such little worth, that it's become so hot, makes for an interesting case study particularly in this recession as every luxury goods company is struggling to reassess what luxury even means anymore. Maybe Balmain has found the golden goose, but i'm not totally convinced.

 

[ETROsexualJ]

I work in the industry, I know how garments get costed. I know what kinds of details, workmanship, finishings, fabrics, techniques, printing, cutting, and shipping add to the pricing of clothes. There is nothing in Balmain that should require it to be that much more than Acne, but it's almost 3 times the price. Work it out...

There is not a whole lot more to make a pair of Acne jeans than a pair that sell at JC Penny's but they are almost 3 times the price. Work it out...

 

[BerlinRocks]

maybe you guys could put an end to this discussion ...

coz it's becoming kind of ridiculous ...

 

[DuTTyRoCK112]

maybe you guys could put an end to this discussion ...

coz it's becoming kind of ridiculous ...

Agreed. Points were made on both sides but the dialogue is going in circles now. ETRO bought Balmain jeans, they were expensive and that was his choice.

If you don't find any worth in something, that's valid. You're entitled to voice your opinion but you can't go around trying to make everyone think like you. Maybe they do fit him better, or he likes the wash or whatever. Sometimes there are extremely subtle nuances in a garment that some people respond to and others don't. We are all coming from a different P.O.V. so let's respect that. If you don't like it, don't you buy it.