Brands That Need a Makeover/Overhaul

[Deleted member 167090]

There are so many lines at Armani that the person who will take the job might end-up closing some of them.
I would love Armani to be in the hands of an Italian. Maybe Alessandra Facchinetti! She is versatile (her work for Tod's couldn't be more different to what she has done previously), she can do Couture and she is quite chic. The menswear can be handle by the team under the direction of Alessandra. They should just keep Mainline, PRIVE and Emporio. I think Exchange and stuff can disappear.

The beauty of Armani, is that for a boring, conservative brand, they have managed to remain modern. The campaigns are always sleek, the stores are timeless, the red carpet are always perfectly done and the fragrances/celebrities are always on brand.

Lola, would you tell us more about the business of Armani? I always feel that, even he doesn’t have the cult, he always has his loyal clienteles. The mainline is kind of the epitome of old-school Italian luxury with dashes of modernity. Considering their PR practices and marketing strategy, my overall impression for the brand is quite good—they have the perfect ambassadors and the clienteles base that always exude classism and sophistication.

 

[Lola701]

Lola, would you tell us more about the business of Armani? I always feel that, even he doesn’t have the cult, he always has his loyal clienteles. The mainline is kind of the epitome of old-school Italian luxury with dashes of modernity. Considering their PR practices and marketing strategy, my overall impression for the brand is quite good—they have the perfect ambassadors and the clienteles base that always exude classism and sophistication.

I don’t know more about Armani than what is already known tbh...
Armani does have a loyal clientele as you said. Armani is still a reference in menswear, in the world of tailoring and in that mature clientele. There are a lot of Asians in his shows and not necessarly because they are big shoppers and they are shopping every brand but in Asia, there’s still that social hierarchy and rich women who wants to look rich in classic conservative way do love Armani and obviously don’t mind to see their husbands wearing the brand too. For years, an Armani suit was status symbol....And to a certain generation, it still means something.

The problem with the brand is a bit similar with Versace, even if Armani has an healthy business. Armani is doing 2,3 billions in sales. It’s great and amazing for an independent brand...But when you look at the numbers of brands in the Armani umbrella, it’s kinda weird.

Versace despite all their various lines didn’t made profits for years!

And the problem with Armani is that in terms of pure business, all those lines speaks to very specific markets without having the creative proposition to match!

Armani Privé is for me the only line of the brand that match the creative expectations: The Couture is strong, the exclusive perfumes are great.

All the other lines have a nice package with a dusty product. Do we need Armani Exchange in 2020? Can you sell a Couture dress and at the same time try to compete with high street at a little higher price, with an irrelevant product?

I think he should use the crisis as an opportunity to down-size his business to meet the expectations of our times. The way as Versace Couture, Versace Jeans Couture and Versus have no reason to exist in 2020.

Armani has an image of sophistication but is available at every mall in the world, next to Michael by Michael Kors.

I really think that with the right creative director, the brand can reinvent itself. Dolce & Gabbana have successfully managed to merge D&G and make the mainline stronger.

 

[Phuel]

Armani does seem to be profitable and never close to the red— and that’s an admirable feat these days for an independent label that isn’t owned by some conglomerate, or isn’t Chanel or Hermes.

But commerce aside, his designs have devolved into bourgeoisie parents-of-the-bride territory these days. Looking back at his hugely impressive and leading design archive, it’s been a downward spiral creatively these last several years. Nothing of the current Armani-aesthetic works in terms of sophistication: Not his RTW nor couture nor menswear, not even the campaigns. Frankly, I find it all really hideously cheap-looking. If I were asked— the label absolutely needs a new creative direction from this fuddy-duddy one he’s on (I even find the modern monogram cheap-looking). But I’m sure his profit-margins and loyal customers would beg otherwise.

 

[FelipeV]

It would be interesting to see someone bolder in Chanel. Virginie is too vanilla and too respectful to the brand.

 

[RuggingUpForTheWintour]

URGH - Burberry.

The TB is tiresome and utterly tasteless. It's just the Tiscli ego emblazon over classic design.

Disgusting.

 

[Olaffo]

Hmm, I really enjoy to read this topic but you are all made me thing what is actually the "brand makeover/overhaul?"

I am terrified by the state of fashion today and I see no future other than commercial and "Zaraesque". There are few fashion designers who are maintaining some sort of dignity and do their job properly but the big conglomerates are focused on selling and marketing rather than challenging the status quo and present the art of fashion as the greatest of all applied arts. We are wearing fashion whether we like it or not. We are living in the world in which we can pick and choose the identity so the fashions brands are becoming that identity shops and we can't do anything about it. What I think is that most of the brands will need an overhaul and non of them at the same time. Of course I sincerely loathe this crap like MGC at Dior, Tisci at Burberry (I have been working there so trust me- actual products are far worse than runway), Raf at Prada (which is criminal). But it is the state of fashion for today so we can hope it will be better, people won't be so lazy, racism will be erased or mineralised and fashion will be relevant once again. But frankly, I don't think so. And I don't think so precisely because our every single fashion choice is "selected for us, by the people in this room, from a pile of stuff".

 

[RuggingUpForTheWintour]

Of course I sincerely loathe this crap like...Tisci at Burberry (I have been working there so trust me- actual products are far worse than runway).

I will give Tisci this much credit: while he is absolutely not the designer for Burberry, he has at least kept their signature items classic. The scarves and coats (for the most part) are still classic. So, while I detest his direction, I can't exactly accusing him of undoing the Burberry of yore.

But was anyone actually asking for THIS?

Burberry is about classic elegance, not telling the world that you own something.
The cuts, style and iconic stripes were already served the purpose of attesting Burberry's iconic status.

 

[Lola701]

I will give Tisci this much credit: while he is absolutely not the designer for Burberry, he has at least kept their signature items classic. The scarves and coats (for the most part) are still classic. So, while I detest his direction, I can't exactly accusing him of undoing the Burberry of yore.

But was anyone actually asking for THIS?

Burberry is about classic elegance, not telling the world that you own something.
The cuts, style and iconic stripes were already served the purpose of attesting Burberry's iconic status.

Remove the logo on the trench and this look becomes actually fresh and interesting...In a CDG kind of way.

 

[RuggingUpForTheWintour]

Remove the logo on the trench and this look becomes actually fresh and interesting...In a CDG kind of way.

Thank you.

I have this issue with Gucci, by the way, where the designs are inspired enough without the label tastelessly using them as a walking advertisement. Again, Gucci lost their classic edge when Tom Ford left the label - it's no coincidence that TF is timeless. It's about classic design, not flaunting a status symbol.

Isn't it enough that the design of a coat is interesting enough on its own right without printing BURBERRY right across it.

Years ago, would you have really thought we having this conversation about BURBERRY of all labels?

 

[Lola701]

Thank you.

I have this issue with Gucci, by the way, where the designs are inspired enough without the label tastelessly using them as a walking advertisement. Again, Gucci lost their classic edge when Tom Ford left the label - it's no coincidence that TF is timeless. It's about classic design, not flaunting a status symbol.

Isn't it enough that the design of a coat is interesting enough on its own right without printing BURBERRY right across it.

Years ago, would you have really thought we having this conversation about BURBERRY of all labels?

I get what you are saying and I also agree for the most part...
But, I don't mind the fact that the trench with logos on it exist in the stores. It's just Burberry responding to the business and adapting itself to the codes of the luxury market. I hate the logo on the trench in the same way as I hate the classic Burberry check print.

My problem is when I see those logos on the runway, as a vision for the creative direction of the brand. I think Riccardo has used "Burberry" in a more clever way. This is just cash-grabbing.
The best of his work for Burberry is when he goes for the bourgeois, heritage look.

I'm not nostalgic of Tom at Gucci....I'm nostalgic of Tom being at the top of his game. Alessandro lost me some seasons ago and Frida...I only cared about the shoes and bags from her.

I think the industry needs that new brand that will inspire everybody to go back to the fundamentals of "luxury", much like what Phoebe did with Celine in 2009. And 2009 was a fabulous year for Burberry. I still have some amazing pieces from that era.

 

[RuggingUpForTheWintour]

I get what you are saying and I also agree for the most part...
It's just Burberry responding to the business and adapting itself to the codes of the luxury market.

But that's the issue; Burberry aren't required to follow trends when they are a label who set the trends. Example; there would be no Coach without Burberry.

I should also say that I don't have anything against logos. I love Ralph Lauren and the iconic pony. But that's also the point. Ralph Lauren have always been tasteful in their placement of their logo. That's the key; it's not whether or not your product features a logo, it's a question of whether the garment is treated as second fiddle to the logo. That's my issue with Burberry of late.

I think the industry needs that new brand that will inspire everybody to go back to the fundamentals of "luxury", much like what Phoebe did with Celine in 2009. And 2009 was a fabulous year for Burberry. I still have some amazing pieces from that era.

More of this and, I predict that the coming decade is where we will see this happen based upon history. If you look back to post 9/11, a lot of iconic designers stripped back the "status" element of their design in favour of more classic and timeless design. Why? The world was getting more understated as it took a battering to terrorism.

The same thing is now happening with COVID but it's far worse as the economy is taking a substantial hit. So, status advertising will come off as gauche and wanky (for lack of the better term).

 

[Lola701]

^^
I wouldn't say that Burberry is a brand that set trends. It's a brand that has an important heritage in fashion but because the brand was notorious for a longtime, for a certain category (outerwear), it never had any influence in the industry. Burberry had a cultural relevance because of what the brand meant for some social categories over the years (much like Lacoste or Ralph Lauren). Ralph Lauren stand for something but it never set trends. The flagship image of Ralph Lauren is the rich, American dream and a certain idea of Americana but Ralph Lauren also mean a particular, American way of running it business. Ralph Lauren is also the big logos, the big POLO RALPH LAUREN or RALPH LAUREN SPORT and an insane line-up of tacky products. It's maybe the only brand that manages to have such a huge gap while being able to maintain it aura...People don't mind seeing Ralph Lauren in the chicest shopping districts and at the same time, in all the malls/outlets of the world.

The success of Burberry by Bailey inspired Coach to do HF but Coach was a small brand with a very limited reach...

The market is so divided right now. Phoebe was the palette cleanser of the excess of the 00's... Post 9/11, minimalism lasted 1 or 2 seasons. By 2003, the madness began!
Now, I feel like the minimalism of Celine is still to present in our memories and in contemporary fashion to just come back in full force...
No matter what might come, it won't come from Burberry anyway...

 

[reesewu]

Instead of figuring out the brands that need to have a makeover/overhaul, we should be identifying those who don't need to as clearly the former outnumbers the latter throughout today's state of fashion.

 

[Dorna Aprin]

Can we all love Lanvin (Bruno Sialelli's) direction? He is unbelievable.
Schiaparelli (Daniel Roseberry) has shown interesting changes that shows history through accessorizing and keeping it modern in an appropriate way. Prada also has shown a good advert revival. Maria Grazia Chiuri has taken Dior in a great direction for Spring RTW2020. Chanel, too. Virginie Viard is improving at her new role, given the circumstance and expectations placed upon her.
Oscar de la Renta (Garcia, Kim) are keeping it relevant and changing designs enough to make magic happen at the brand.

If it's a matter of what needs a change, I think yes, Burberry needs to rearrange its marketing. Gucci is killing it with sales this year. Top dogs as far as making the most money. And Alessandro Michele does mix it up like crazy, but there are decent stories to find hidden in his collections.

Valentino looks like it's stuck in a rut with attempting to sell the studded bags again? But I don't know.
The runway was amazing. Hopefully the bag promotion goes well.

Marc Jacobs feels stuck too....and compensating with too much media time.

It's weird because each place: New York, Paris, Milan, London, (and everywhere else..)
has its own standards but they appeal to everyone worldwide.

 

[LoveFashion25]

It would be interesting to see someone bolder in Chanel. Virginie is too vanilla and too respectful to the brand.

Hello i'm new here! Yes I 100% agree with you! Chanel needs a revamp.

 

[susseinmcswanny]

Late night manic post lol. Fendi needs to be completely revamped or just eradicated. I was reminiscing looking thru some pics of 2000's and even some mid 2010's collections and the furs/shoes/bags are absolutely STELLAR.

I mean going from this (FW 2007)

livingly.com

to this... (FW 2021)

livingly.com

The corporate tax on design this company is enforcing to boost marketing/sales is gonna make me lose my HAIR

 

[dior_couture1245]

^I loved FW07. And I loved FW06 even more. TDF.

 

[Bertrando3]

I miss Givenchy under Ricardo now it's really weird. Burburry now does not look like its original spirit and under Bailey that's for sure.
I think Chanel needs a HUGE makeover.
I have to say Louis Vuitton and Dior men are where they are supposed to be so I don't see the need of change for either brands in the near future.

 

[dior_couture1245]

Abercrombie & Fitch. It's absolutely atrocious brand now. It looks like a cheap Chinese import label now. And their marketing is like low budget American Apparel...it's like worse than Old Navy now.

If they were smart...and wanted to capture their original cache again...they'd hire E.R.L. to be creative director. His lookbooks and collections are very A+F Quarterly without looking like an exact replica. It's just the right amount of that look without looking particularly nostalgic. It looks 2021. Very now. In the best way. His recent collab with Comme for a fragrance, "Sunscreen," - the ad was perfect and exactly what A+F should be now.

 

[Deleted member 167090]

I have always thought that the A&F brand was thriving on the Bruce Weber Quarterly, which is probably its core defined aesthetics. Back in the days of going to college in the U.S., I have conducted lots of research on American brands but have never made a purchase from A&F because its aesthetics didn't really suit me. As a hunky Asian with short stature, it has never been easy for me to find the right fit of clothes from American/European brands. In the end, I turned to Japanese brands whose qualities are far more superior in terms of design and quality. I think the problem of those American brands, in general, is not very good value pricing.