Burberry Prorsum Mens F/W 06.07 Milan

[AlexN]

...I fail to see the relationship between wallet chains and homosexuality.

That really made me laugh. It's just so incredibly silly.

 

[Zazie]

Those of you who own a loud black and white houndstooth check jacket, please post it.

I have a stark houndstooth scarf, but even that is really tricky to pull off.

Nothing wrong with loud, of course, but this loud trench borders on being caricature, one of the key reasons why this collection looks silly, it's based on a caricature of the "British aristocrats", when the real aristocrats don't wear clothes like these, not even the old aristocrats like the Duke of Windsor. But I'm sure the likes of Beckham would... It's like the British version of Cavalli...yuk.

I don't even expect Bailey to break new ground, but at least get the old ground right.

I'm amazed that so many of you are willing to give designers a pass. I'm with the camp that expects high-end runway fashion to attempt doing something interesting, imaginative and innovative - they are charging the customers the kind of money that deserves better from the designers. I don't expect that much (ideas, innovation, cut, tailoring, details, etc.) from a $200 jacket, but a $2000 one...

There are two contradictory arguments here - 1. there should be variety for everybody, and 2. we shouldn't reinvent the wheel.

Yes, I agree with 5thAvenue there should be variety out there, and that is precisely the problem I see, there isn't much variety anymore - everyone is doing the same silhouette, cut, tailoring for years now, Dolce & Gabbana, Cavalli, D2, Costume National (which I seriously love.. but which has disappointed me for some seasons now). They just change "moods", colours, materials, decorations. When this first look debuted at Dior years ago, it was bracingly fresh. I'm waiting for fashion to do that again, to offer something fresh, instead of stagnating.

So that's my answer for points 1 &2.

I'm also usually skeptical of reviewers, they always butter up to the designers as they hobnob with them at parties and receive gifts and favours from them, not to mention millions in advertising $$$, all the Wintours, Menkes and Hornryns. Very few actually make the effort to be objective, because it usually doesn't pay and ruins the "friendship" between the designers, advertisers and the journals/magazines. While not everything this reviewer said is accurate, a lot of it makes sense. And I'm glad to see a backbone, someone speaking his mind.

I know fashion is a very personal thing, but please don't feel personally insulted. I think dissenting voices should also be heard, especially when they try to make points, not to score them.

Ok, enough from me. Peace.

 

[tricotineacetat]

Those of you who own a loud black and white houndstooth check jacket, please post it.

I have a stark houndstooth scarf, but even that is really tricky to pull off.

Nothing wrong with loud, of course, but this loud trench borders on being caricature, one of the key reasons why this collection looks silly, it's based on a caricature of the "British aristocrats", when the real aristocrats don't wear clothes like these, not even the old aristocrats like the Duke of Windsor. But I'm sure the likes of Beckham would... It's like the British version of Cavalli...yuk.

I don't even expect Bailey to break new ground, but at least get the old ground right.

I'm amazed that so many of you are willing to give designers a pass. I'm with the camp that expects high-end runway fashion to attempt doing something interesting, imaginative and innovative - they are charging the customers the kind of money that deserves better from the designers. I don't expect that much (ideas, innovation, cut, tailoring, details, etc.) from a $200 jacket, but a $2000 one...

There are two contradictory arguments here - 1. there should be variety for everybody, and 2. we shouldn't reinvent the wheel.

Yes, I agree with 5thAvenue there should be variety out there, and that is precisely the problem I see, there isn't much variety anymore - everyone is doing the same silhouette, cut, tailoring for years now, Dolce & Gabbana, Cavalli, D2, Costume National (which I seriously love.. but which has disappointed me for some seasons now). They just change "moods", colours, materials, decorations. When this first look debuted at Dior years ago, it was bracingly fresh. I'm waiting for fashion to do that again, to offer something fresh, instead of stagnating.

So that's my answer for points 1 &2.

I'm also usually skeptical of reviewers, they always butter up to the designers as they hobnob with them at parties and receive gifts and favours from them, not to mention millions in advertising $$$, all the Wintours, Menkes and Hornryns. Very few actually make the effort to be objective, because it usually doesn't pay and ruins the "friendship" between the designers, advertisers and the journals/magazines. While not everything this reviewer said is accurate, a lot of it makes sense. And I'm glad to see a backbone, someone speaking his mind.

I know fashion is a very personal thing, but please don't feel personally insulted. I think dissenting voices should also be heard, especially when they try to make points, not to score them.

Ok, enough from me. Peace.

The problem is that fashion is not ready to change concepts so quickly... just at the moment in which a broader audience is getting access and awareness of the skinny silhouette, it would be a desaster if the brands would just screw up the whole concept and start from the very beginning. You can of course change themes and inspirations, but starting again completely from scratch in terms of silhouette, that´s something that would again force people to re-invent their wardrobes and dressing habits completely. And looking back on designers like Yohji Yamamoto, Ann Demeulemeester or Helmut Lang, there´s a consistancy in their work which helped them build up trust with their customer base. Many of their customers are being faithfull and appreciate the fact that with their concepts, it´s only just about adding pieces here and there, without being in the necessity to throw away a successful proposal of dressing (Even though I absolutely detest Yamamoto´s menswear, I´d give him credit for sticking with his aesthetic rather than slavishly following another one´s successful formula... which brings me back to the point that there are still som epeople out there that are willing to go differend paths than Dior, Burberry, Cloak etc. with their skinny silhouette concepts).

I think above the innovation, the most important value that high fashion should transport is timelessness. If you make your customer believe that they´d have to change their wardrobes entirely after just some few seasons, I would more than agree to say that there is no point in buying high fashion at all, not for a significantly higher pricepoint.

As far as Burberry is concerned, I don´t see that this is much of a progression from previous seasons, this is pretty much the same silhouette that he has always done but in a variation of fabrics and inspirations. I approve the playfulness with pattern and the careless, thrown-together feel of these outfits, the mix of rather conservative fabrics and cuts with something pop-influenced as these rockabilly-style printed sweaters or studded belts. As far as the trenches are concerned, the houndstooth I liked, although I admit I would probably not buy it for the money... more so the golden, quilted number or the maroon washed leather trench, I think I could pull them off much more easily than the bold check. I actually never saw the aristocratic reference in these outfits, to me, it was more so a collage of all types of English fabrics, mixed and matched by chance and given a different context (an approach that I admit, is not very new and shared by many competitors such as Prada/Miu Miu, Paul Smith and others).

 

[faust]

It sounds like you are describing nice clothing to me. Isn't fashion, historically and currently, more about leaders and followers than just nice clothing?

The first and foremost objective of fashion is making beautiful, quality clothes. It does not mean that one should not stick to a certain design philosophy, develop a certain aesthetic principle, or stop experimenting - but these are means, not goals.

 

[faust]

The problem is that fashion is not ready to change concepts so quickly... just at the moment in which a broader audience is getting access and awareness of the skinny silhouette, it would be a desaster if the brands would just screw up the whole concept and start from the very beginning. You can of course change themes and inspirations, but starting again completely from scratch in terms of silhouette, that´s something that would again force people to re-invent their wardrobes and dressing habits completely. And looking back on designers like Yohji Yamamoto, Ann Demeulemeester or Helmut Lang, there´s a consistancy in their work which helped them build up trust with their customer base. Many of their customers are being faithfull and appreciate the fact that with their concepts, it´s only just about adding pieces here and there, without being in the necessity to throw away a successful proposal of dressing (Even though I absolutely detest Yamamoto´s menswear, I´d give him credit for sticking with his aesthetic rather than slavishly following another one´s successful formula... which brings me back to the point that there are still som epeople out there that are willing to go differend paths than Dior, Burberry, Cloak etc. with their skinny silhouette concepts).

I think above the innovation, the most important value that high fashion should transport is timelessness. If you make your customer believe that they´d have to change their wardrobes entirely after just some few seasons, I would more than agree to say that there is no point in buying high fashion at all, not for a significantly higher pricepoint.

As far as Burberry is concerned, I don´t see that this is much of a progression from previous seasons, this is pretty much the same silhouette that he has always done but in a variation of fabrics and inspirations. I approve the playfulness with pattern and the careless, thrown-together feel of these outfits, the mix of rather conservative fabrics and cuts with something pop-influenced as these rockabilly-style printed sweaters or studded belts. As far as the trenches are concerned, the houndstooth I liked, although I admit I would probably not buy it for the money... more so the golden, quilted number or the maroon washed leather trench, I think I could pull them off much more easily than the bold check. I actually never saw the aristocratic reference in these outfits, to me, it was more so a collage of all types of English fabrics, mixed and matched by chance and given a different context (an approach that I admit, is not very new and shared by many competitors such as Prada/Miu Miu, Paul Smith and others).

Excellent B)

 

[PrinceOfCats]

I fail to see the relationship between wallet chains and homosexuality

It's like domino theory - a chain reaction.

 

[amchan]

i don't see any relationship between the 2 specific things "wallet chains" and "homosexuality" too...

 

[nqth]

I agree that fashion is not (and not about) changing fast. But my prob. with Burberry is that I can't see it as a "whole". It does not have the stand out aesthetic like Yamamoto, Ann D... And it probably doesn't want to have, since Burberry is a luxury house, not an "aesthetic house":-P It just do what will sell. And their customers don't want innovation. They want prestige, and they want 2000 euro jkt that looks lux.


Anyway timelessness in fashion can be diff. for diff. ppl. For me it is making valuable design that can last the time, a philosophy that will change, or affect ppl's aesthetic. If you look back at fashion history, timelessness is innovation, from Dior to Chanel, YSL to CdG and Yamamoto, Miyake and even Prada. It is not just reinventing the same thing in diff. fabrics, colours and throw-in details, or addapt that "things" to current trends... In this case the timeless Burberry beauty is the check:-)), from which, I assume, they want to run away fast.

In the other hands it is clothes that ppl will wear, and this is menswear, which has a bigger continuation issue than womens'. I never expect Burberry to invent. When you want innovative design, you go to Chalayan, JW, CdG, Yamamoto, APOC, RS... Innovative usually means smaller sell:-)

Burberry in my eyes are wearable, yet very much a caricature of the "old England". Ralph Lauren made a fortune, why not Burberry? Are they good at it, I think so. But I still don't like it:-P

 

[Zazie]

tricotinacetate,
I do agree about consistency, but the designers you quoted are also brilliant creators who have surprises in store for us, always, while retaining a certain identity. They are also hip to the changes around us. On the other extreme of "consistency", you have the Ralph Laurens like nqth mentioned.

The innovation and creativity aside, also, from the cynical, cold-hearted business POV, changing silhouettes and radical departures help to move clohes. I'm both an idealist and a pragmatist that way.

I guess for me, it's even fine for Burberry to stick to a classical skinny cut for this collection. What bothered me is also the cheesiness of offering his customers a "Duke of Windsor" look, which he interpreted as something approaching caricature in its garishness.

I've known "aristocrats" (the "von"s and the "de"s) - they are some of the worst cheapskates I've ever come across, but at least sartorially, they're very subtle and low-keyed. This "interpretation" is just so awful, and quite prole, to me at least.

 

[PrinceOfCats]

I guess for me, it's even fine for Burberry to stick to a classical skinny cut for this collection. What bothered me is also the cheesiness of offering his customers a "Duke of Windsor" look, which he interpreted as something approaching caricature in its garishness.

How exactly is this a 'caricature' - it's fairly traditional English tailoring, cut a bit tighter to suit a younger customer and with knobs on. And no offense, but the German and French aristocracy are a joke, even more than all aristocracy is one giant humorous historical pecadillo. What they wear is hardly a guide to anything.

 

[bobbytafari]

Excellent B)

Second that.

 

[jason7770]

body type

and to add even more to the mix, i don't think any silhouette should go away. it is just ridiculous to use this boxed-in thinking. people have different body types and different aesthetics, and there should be a market for everyone.

Yes, I absolutely agree, silhouettes should be based on body shape rather than trends. For example, some Dolce and Gabbana stuff looked ridiculous this season when they tried to put Dior-inspired clothes on to a totally different body type.

And this Burberry silhouette ties into a long tradition of English style, and does it in a more subtle way than Dior's current collection...

 

[Zazie]

How exactly is this a 'caricature' - it's fairly traditional English tailoring, cut a bit tighter to suit a younger customer and with knobs on. And no offense, but the German and French aristocracy are a joke, even more than all aristocracy is one giant humorous historical pecadillo. What they wear is hardly a guide to anything.

Yes, I see that gold-bronze padded trenchcoats and burgundy leopard print sweaters are the heights of traditional English tailoring

Well, maybe you should also share your opinions about why we should or shouldn't care very much about what aristocrats supposedly wear with Mr Bailey, for it was he who held up the Duke of Windsor as inspiration for the likes of his giantic black and white houndstooth wool trench. Not that he was the only one of course....

 

[Johnny]

^^^ The gold padded trench coat is absolutely hideous. In the context of a fairly low key and "dark" (not in mood but in colour palate) collection it doesn't seem too bad, but if you think about it in isolation, about actually wearing it to walk down the street, it is quite a ridiculous coat.

 

[tricotineacetat]

^^^ The gold padded trench coat is absolutely hideous. In the context of a fairly low key and "dark" (not in mood but in colour palate) collection it doesn't seem too bad, but if you think about it in isolation, about actually wearing it to walk down the street, it is quite a ridiculous coat.

Hmmm, I would actually dare and want to wear it...

It´s basically the same for me as with those metallic/shiny suits at Dior Homme, I happen to wear these kind of clothes on a daily basis, but toned down with pieces that are less out there, more basic. I am really just lost for anything that has a metallic shine and an interesting shade of colour, and that bronze/gold was quite distinct and less in-your-face than, say, Moschino´s gold sequin blazer (which I think was by far too show for my liking).

 

[Monty76]

I FELL IN LOVE WITH A JACKET!!! it isnt one of the runway peices... its similar to this jacket from last season in cut, but it is zipper instead of button and has the motorcycle jacket collar... and it has more details such as straps on the cuffs... the quality of leather is exquisite...

originally my eye was on this trench for this season, but i have decided that a short jacket is more versatile...

pictures from men.style.com

Anyone know if burberry prorsum is any cheaper in London? cause i will be going to London in September...the black jacket i was talking about is HKD$18,000 or GBP1,200...

 

[djork]

It's like domino theory - a chain reaction.

chain reaction, haha

 

[happycanadian]

i don't have anything to add to the whole Aristocracy/Houndstooth Jacket/Design "Raison d'etre" conversation above, but I just want to thank you both for it! It's very nice to come to a place where people are so empassioned by a topic they can have a real conversation about it, beyond the simple aesthetic responses of "Oh, that's gorgeous", or "Dreadful."

And Monty, that deep beetroot trench is probably the thing from that collection which I wish desperately I could afford. The entire collection was my favourite of that season, but that trench looks to be so elegant and with such a rich colour that I haven't seen in a coat before.

 

[LAMALONE]

Monty76 nice coats I really like the long one

 

[jpolla]

Yeh that beetroot trench was so nice, classic with a slightly different colour. Anyone else feel the need to buy pinstripe trousers. They were on nearly every model in the a/w collection.