Daniel Lee - Designer, Creative Director of Burberry

My friend who is working there said that shops are empty and the only one products sell are ofc trench coats. This pricing is insane, who on earth will pay 2 k GBP for a TROUSERS from Burberry…Well, if they fire Lee I wish him all the best and this company will burn in fashion hell…
 
His work at Bottega Veneta, especially the intrecciato bags, was iconic. At Burberry, it seems he hasn’t yet created something similarly standout. Why do you think that is?
 
I think it is difficult to compare...... BV is much smaller then Burberry... At Burberry you have to sell a lot more of your design clothes / bags to keep up your revenue. The consumer searching for this kind of design clothes is small. And often those consumers do not associate burberry with that kind of clothes.
Bottega Veneta has a more special italian, craft, atelier, design image. After Thomas Meier, Daniel Lees Vision was more disruptive and felt new.

At Burberry there till was this conservative, british, outdoor, London England Image, when Lee arrived....and it never disapeared completly.

I know a lot of italian people thinking about BV with high regard....there is still this "italian design is strange but good"-attitude.... maybe that makes consumer of BV more open for newness

The Burberry consumer wants checkers and trench...more traditional british


But this are only ideas.....
 
the main problem i think is that they want to continue making clothes for the old burberry clients bu at a price point of top tier brands. this wont work, the old burberry clients who would actually wear what lee has been making dont have that kind of money. And their new target client at this price point would never be caught in way too "young" and forward designs.

atleast you saw tiscis monogram and new logo shirts during his time and up to now.... I havent seen anyone in the new burberry mainline stuff.
 
So many enormous sales for Burberry online and yet they STILL price the new pants at $3000!!!!! Surely they will meet the same fate as the others.

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The problem is the creative direction chosen by Lee simply did not click, with BV his start was more concentrated the design and creative direction overall and of items where clear, Burberry was overtly chaotic and quirky and no clear it/hot items materialized form the first 2 shows even.

If he started with a more clear focus on rebuilding his Burberry, it would have had more sense if each season they could have added and tested items or tap into another creative layer to the story of a new Burberry and it would have had more longevity which fits to the brand, instead of hardcore contemporary fashionable loud prints and colors and items.

(For me price and new or old client discussion is less relevant or important when you have a new CD and his or her world building and product designs all click and make sense you have people follow and growth happens and sales happen.)

Burberry can be a more British Hermes version and stop pretending to be cool would be best at this point the world is full of clothes for landfills already.
 
^^
Daniel Lee’s inaugural collection was well received. The problem is that when people saw the prices, it seems unreachable.

Burberry cannot be the British Hermes when for years their clothes were sold next to Polo Ralph Lauren and Tommy Hilfiger.

Because yes, this is the reality of Burberry as a brand. It is sold in many department stores and their offer changes depending the department stores.

I can use France as a simple example: it’s sold in both local Galeries Lafayette in all the country and they can have more high-end corners next to more luxurious brands at the same time.

They have merged all their previous lines under the Burberry umbrella but they didn’t adapt their distribution.

Now they have opened their store in Avenue Montaigne, they have corners at Le Bon Marché and La Samaritaine where the offer is a bit more upscale… All while having an outlet outside of Paris.

Brands thinks that having insane prices is the best way to appear luxurious when it’s all a matter of control.

Celine by Hedi Slimane is selling jeans, tshirts, sweatshirts and bags that are now at the same prices that some Burberry bags. What’s the difference? Distribution.

On the Internet, you can only buy Celine on their website, Mr Porter and 24S. The level of distribution through retailers is exclusive and they are going more for shops on shops than corners.

We will see with the next CD if doing classic fashion is enough for Burberry to obtain whatever they are trying to get.
 
^^
Daniel Lee’s inaugural collection was well received. The problem is that when people saw the prices, it seems unreachable.

Burberry cannot be the British Hermes when for years their clothes were sold next to Polo Ralph Lauren and Tommy Hilfiger.

Because yes, this is the reality of Burberry as a brand. It is sold in many department stores and their offer changes depending the department stores.

I can use France as a simple example: it’s sold in both local Galeries Lafayette in all the country and they can have more high-end corners next to more luxurious brands at the same time.

They have merged all their previous lines under the Burberry umbrella but they didn’t adapt their distribution.

Now they have opened their store in Avenue Montaigne, they have corners at Le Bon Marché and La Samaritaine where the offer is a bit more upscale… All while having an outlet outside of Paris.

Brands thinks that having insane prices is the best way to appear luxurious when it’s all a matter of control.

Celine by Hedi Slimane is selling jeans, tshirts, sweatshirts and bags that are now at the same prices that some Burberry bags. What’s the difference? Distribution.

On the Internet, you can only buy Celine on their website, Mr Porter and 24S. The level of distribution through retailers is exclusive and they are going more for shops on shops than corners.

We will see with the next CD if doing classic fashion is enough for Burberry to obtain whatever they are trying to get.
Yes i also was excited with Lee’s inaugural collection especially the front zipper pockets pants and general idea that Burberry could be a exciting brand i could buy into now , but the acc bags and shoes were not cool and that comes before the price aversion or resistance , if we look at what other bands sell for the price it's just as insane, but it sells because the general story or style of the brand clicks with the audience that's more my point.

The price debate is not helping sales but the bigger problem is the products themselves yes sure selling merch from a ex BV hyped designer at zara prices it would sell just because it's a bargain not because people actually love the items there is less loyalty being into a world and style etc ....

Burberry as British Hermes does not mean Hermes price points for me, it means just being classic and invest in made in britain and be playful and for everyone.
For me as you mention the price games as a quick fix for brand elevation just does not work in this state of economic insecurity and overall customers knowledge of brands and what one can get for their top Dollars or yen or Euro´s

Something we talked about before .....price aside is the product really desirable take away what he did at BV or not just see it as the new - Burberry as i mentioned months ago i don't know any one in the industry that is dying to get a piece from Burberry since he took over not a coat or dress or shoe or bag

You need that urgency /desire when you're launching a brand with new creative direction from people that want it even when they cant afford it ........hear crickets....... when the subject Burberry comes up.

We can dissect: looks, items, ad campaigns, price points,distribution and all ...but the boy needs to rethink his approach to what he want to say at Burberry because the vibe now is just not resonating period! its just lack luster merch at best not the worst bust not his best either.
 
The problem is the creative direction chosen by Lee simply did not click, with BV his start was more concentrated the design and creative direction overall and of items where clear, Burberry was overtly chaotic and quirky and no clear it/hot items materialized form the first 2 shows even.

If he started with a more clear focus on rebuilding his Burberry, it would have had more sense if each season they could have added and tested items or tap into another creative layer to the story of a new Burberry and it would have had more longevity which fits to the brand, instead of hardcore contemporary fashionable loud prints and colors and items.

(For me price and new or old client discussion is less relevant or important when you have a new CD and his or her world building and product designs all click and make sense you have people follow and growth happens and sales happen.)

Burberry can be a more British Hermes version and stop pretending to be cool would be best at this point the world is full of clothes for landfills already.
Why are are you almost always so on point?

100% true. I think the old and the new customers don’t really matter when you have a new direction. If you do something that attracts the rich, they will come.

His Burberry has been a mess. It’s been everything and nothing. No clear message. Silly gimmicks. Completely uninteresting.

I think Claire could do something lighter and desirable.
 
Why are are you almost always so on point?

100% true. I think the old and the new customers don’t really matter when you have a new direction. If you do something that attracts the rich, they will come.

His Burberry has been a mess. It’s been everything and nothing. No clear message. Silly gimmicks. Completely uninteresting.

I think Claire could do something lighter and desirable.
I think i am more on the unpopular opinion side than on point lol
Writing on a forum is a strange thing but it helps to formultale things that i am nerdy about i guess...

but off topic sorry

I agree it needs something not so forced trendy trying hard to be..... also not old fashion stuffy classic either but a modern middle ground also i believe why i said Hermes its should have some sort of positive lifestyle outlook in its creative and communication output its rainwear after all ...

I think there are elements that Lee try to tap into regarding britishness etc but i feel honestly their is overdesign, styling and direction issues here, much like current Bottega is also all over the place shooting in the air and see what they hit or sticks the market does not respond well to directionless and to much options ...
 
Yeah, it feels heavy, overdesigned, gimmicky, sad even, dark without being dark, gloomy, boring, pretentious, try hard, silly… And there’s no real message, no real direction… I think they should terminate his contract before 2025. It’s even worse than Riccardo’s version of the brand.

I also feel Burberry should be a “positive” brand, kind of lighthearted and easy.

I also think they need a complete rebranding in terms of image. It’s so, so, so messy now. They are lost. I think it can’t be done worse, and this guy must be in the 10M/15M per year 🥲

(And not really, I think you are quite objective which is super hard to be when it comes to fashion).
 
I think Claire could do something lighter and desirable.
We shall see what she is going to come up with. It’s fair to say that Lee will leave.

She is the last big talent around.
So Burberry will go under a new redesign phase again. The 4th in less than a decade.

Let’s pray that Clare deliver just that because her Givenchy clearly lacked direction.
 
Indeed, her Givenchy was a 💩

Is she going to Burberry then? I had no clue, just thought it could work. Is Daniel Lee leaving then?

Sorry I didn’t have time to read the previous pages.
 
Indeed, her Givenchy was a 💩

Is she going to Burberry then? I had no clue, just thought it could work. Is Daniel Lee leaving then?

Sorry I didn’t have time to read the previous pages.
Nothing is happening, just people fantasising as per usual.

People seem to want this to be the fault of Lee’s so bad and it just isn’t. Sorry to disappoint, but his Burberry RTW pieces have been reselling at similar prices on VC & Grailed as most Loewe & Miu Miu RTW pieces. Granted there haven’t been that many listed but if you search for the ones that have been sold, they didn’t exactly go for bargain prices. I’m certainly not suggesting that his collections are clicking the same way as Loewe or Miu Miu but there IS an audience that wants to wear the clothes, just not at the prices they’re retailed at.
 
I hope Lee works it out at Burberry because i fear Clare is not going to do bring it either, will be the new ancora before there was a name for it as her Givenchy was just...... bland as hell.
 
I like Claire, but I don’t see anyone from the ‘chic & tasteful’ design camp having a moment anytime soon, as sad as it might sound. We’re firmly entering the anti-girlboss era of fashion, this ‘brat summer’ thing just solidified it. I keep seeing fashion students using terms like “coquette core” and “bimbo core” and I honestly want to scream. Also partially explains why almost no one’s checking for Phoebe’s line.
 
Nothing is happening, just people fantasising as per usual.

People seem to want this to be the fault of Lee’s so bad and it just isn’t. Sorry to disappoint, but his Burberry RTW pieces have been reselling at similar prices on VC & Grailed as most Loewe & Miu Miu RTW pieces. Granted there haven’t been that many listed but if you search for the ones that have been sold, they didn’t exactly go for bargain prices. I’m certainly not suggesting that his collections are clicking the same way as Loewe or Miu Miu but there IS an audience that wants to wear the clothes, just not at the prices they’re retailed at.
For sure Lee has his haters like any public figure has these days but i believe his loyal BV fans did not move to Burberry as you can see in impressions online/stores and figures there is not the same hype around his designs for reasons already mentioned even music stars like rappers that have no price ressintece are not crazy into it from the odd 2 or 3 sightings.

I think people wanted him to have a revenge come back at burberry and him be better than his BV days even, i think he has lots of fans that don't even know the reasons for leaving/termination at BV

Grailed and VC is aftermarket where :even easily available Goyard in store items goes for way over retail price all this while current available items you can even buy Goyard officially online via their Goyard distance purchase program via the Goyard website in most continents ......

So not sure what to make about it regarding the success of Lee´s items as its a handful of items listed ....nonetheless bargain or not there is a market for everything online that's what makes the internet so great.

Yet it's not a clear analysis of the markets appetite for his designs to be frank.
 
I like Claire, but I don’t see anyone from the ‘chic & tasteful’ design camp having a moment anytime soon, as sad as it might sound. We’re firmly entering the anti-girlboss era of fashion, this ‘brat summer’ thing just solidified it. I keep seeing fashion students using terms like “coquette core” and “bimbo core” and I honestly want to scream. Also partially explains why almost no one’s checking for Phoebe’s line.
Don't you think these are the micro trends and the customer that has the income is still after longevity in product and items that hold value over time to a degree or brands at least that proposed value or values in some shape or form.

Also some trends work for some brands while others cant or dont benefit or lose impact form them, it's much more fragmented now internet trends versus IRL trends
 
For sure Lee has his haters like any public figure has these days but i believe his loyal BV fans did not move to Burberry as you can see in impressions online/stores and figures there is not the same hype around his designs for reasons already mentioned even music stars like rappers that have no price ressintece are not crazy into it from the odd 2 or 3 sightings.

I think people wanted him to have a revenge come back at burberry and him be better than his BV days even, i think he has lots of fans that don't even know the reasons for leaving/termination at BV

Grailed and VC is aftermarket where :even easily available Goyard in store items goes for way over retail price all this while current available items you can even buy Goyard officially online via their Goyard distance purchase program via the Goyard website in most continents ......

So not sure what to make about it regarding the success of Lee´s items as its a handful of items listed ....nonetheless bargain or not there is a market for everything online that's what makes the internet so great.

Yet it's not a clear analysis of the markets appetite for his designs to be frank.
Did he had loyal fans tho.
I bought his BV, I love his work for Burberry and bought 3 pieces. I actually like his Burberry more than his BV because it has an interesting sense of reality and also a more subtle color palette.
At BV, he had amazing knitwear though.

But I don’t think he is staying.
Burberry right now is not the best environment for a creative tbh. I’m sure he will leave after his contract ends. They keeps losing money and don’t want to change the strategy.
And to me, no efforts are even made to have the brand around.

Look at Kering throwing Ancora man every chance we get. No coverage for Lee. No profile on magazines, nothing.

When the new CEO took the job, did he mentioned Lee?

I love Lee’s work but I’m not spending those prices on Burberry. I did and I was pissed off when all the pieces from the first season went on sales lol.

But I also think that Lee is very confident as a designer. Burberry is still trying to figure out what type of brand they are trying to be.
And maybe those two don’t match.

There’s a sense of quirkiness in his work and it seems like people expect Burberry to be more serious…
 
Don't you think these are the micro trends and the customer that has the income is still after longevity in product and items that hold value over time to a degree or brands at least that proposed value or values in some shape or form.

Also some trends work for some brands while others cant or dont benefit or lose impact form them, it's much more fragmented now internet trends versus IRL trends
I get your point but I think the rich just buy whatever brand is trendy at the moment. It’s a very 2019/2022 approach that might be coming to an end soon, but I do think they get whatever they see on Instagram and on friends.

Everybody is obsessed with Miu Miu now and 7 months ago they couldn’t even care about it. The product didn’t change a lot. It just got trendier. Clients were saying that the matelassé was boring and overdone and now they are buying it :lol:

With BV the same happened. It just got trendy and it was a hit. And their accessories are not timeless (the sandals are so passé now or the rubber boots…).

Lori Piana as well…

I feel there’s less individualism than ever in the way people buy. You just need to get trendy.

I hate this way tho, because these heavy circles just burn the brands.
 

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