Demna Gvasalia - Designer, Creative Director of Balenciaga

[Deleted member 7575]

burn the house down if this is true because... yikes. i've heard about this before and i really hope it isn't true.

There is a long history of gay French men going to Marrakesh for the sex tourism. There was even a p*rn studio, Cadinot, themed around the idea.

Did Saint Laurent hire male prostitutes? Yes, of course. Were they under age? Under what age? I'm sure some were teenaged and some weren't. Age disparity in gay sexual relationships, especially between prostitutes and their johns, was not uncommon in that era. He was horny and maybe even lecherous but he was no Jeffery Epstein or Woody Allen.

 

[jeanclaude]

Yes, in 75 or 76, in a meeting of the Fédération to allocate the spots of the Paris Fashion week; everyone was in the room, all the designers or their CEO, and arguing to get the best spot. PB was a tyrant and had a heated argument with André Courrèges, then they had words and finally PB rose from his chair and jump on André Courrèges, punching him on his chair and then tackling him on the floor. Everyone was silent and terrified but finally some intervened to separate them. André Courrèges left immediately. Nobody said a single word, and PB got what he wanted: he decided for every other houses.
The fun fact is that André Courrèges was a former rugby player, the tallest and strongest of them all, while PB was quite short and stocky. He became the king-tyrant of the Fédération that day for many years to come.

Thank you very much for the explanation!

OMG! Bergé´s behaviour is more akin to a football hooligan, than to someone working in high fashion!

 

[blueorchid]

Thank you very much for the explanation!

OMG! Bergé´s behaviour is more akin to a football hooligan, than to someone working in high fashion!

I'm pretty sure that I've read about Pierre kicking photographer's cameras off the runway and even kicking a photographer in the jaw (and breaking it).

 

[LadyJunon]

There is a long history of gay French men going to Marrakesh for the sex tourism. There was even a p*rn studio, Cadinot, themed around the idea.

I seriously need to stop Googling the sh*t some of you say on this forum out of curiosity, because I find the most weirdest, disturbing things.

This time, I ended up on some p*rn site watching some Cadinot film about some boy who has a threesome with his friend and his brothers before robbing them and taking a train to see his sister in Paris.

P*rn is more of a bad erotic comedy than a stimulant in my eyes, but I stopped halfway through, because they revealed that the protagonist was 15 (legal in France, where I live, but why?).

Not to mention the soundtrack sounded like a Jacquemus show.

 

[Drusilla_]

Thank you very much for the explanation!

OMG! Bergé´s behaviour is more akin to a football hooligan, than to someone working in high fashion!

sounds like Bergé was the 'bad cop' of his and Yves' partnership, in Irene Silvagni's words, he often did the screaming on behalf of Yves but neither of them were easy. Neither was, according to her, Balenciaga himself.

 

[perhydrol]

They've just posted a video called "Best Wishes for the New Year from Balenciaga" with an archival footage. Are they really going to destroy their own heritage now in a weak attempt to calm the storm down?

 

[Lola701]

^^
I know the mainstream audience won’t care but it’s kinda brilliant to see the magic of Cristobal.
Clothes to die for…

Maybe back to a certain sobriety. Too bad they have to release both the campaign and products for SS2023…Even if I have a soft spot for the lays chips bags.

Thank you very much for the explanation!

OMG! Bergé´s behaviour is more akin to a football hooligan, than to someone working in high fashion!

Bergé was something else…
One thing I have to give to him is that he was the same way in public and behind the scenes…very brutal.
He worked in fashion but he had connections in the political work (He was a big supporter of Francois Mitterand) and remained influential there too. So you can imagine between the tantrums and the influence…

 

[THD96]

That video is just perfect. Cristobal's clothes speak louder than any stunts from Demna could ever.

I hate the fact that his clothes are forever tarnished and linked to this mess. And how convenient they only bother to dig up something from Cristobal they're in a crisis. When was the last time this company ever mentioned its founder on social media?

Maybe this is a signal, no more trolling, back to fashion for Balenciaga in 2023.

Anyway, I accidentally typed in SS03 instead of SS23, and wow what a sad evolution for a brand. 20 years later and that collection still stands the test of time, it's still more modern and fresher than anything Demna has presented for the past 2 years. Nicolas achieved everything in one collection. High fashion, sportswear, and commercial without a single gimmick. Maybe Demna can try that sometimes.

 

[BlueRuin]

I definitely think Kering will keep Demna and they will recover from this just as D&G did. I know that’s an unpopular take on this as this forum seems like an echo chamber of Demna haters. But while the campaign was a total mistake, it’s definitely been blown out of proportion and the house has been very profitable prior to the incident. The fashion industry is just very detached from reality and this was a wake up call for them but definitely not a call for total cancellation.

 

[Norden]

At this point I’m curious what the next step is. This guy is a good designer with a good design team, they’re able to do good things. Perhaps a focus on codes is smart now, something sober. But honestly this is not just some blown out internet thing, this is severely affecting their bottom line and brand image. Especially because they relied so much on branded merch, there’s no going back to that now. I honestly see no potential to returning to its former growth. It might go back to being niche again.

 

[Deleted member 7575]

I definitely think Kering will keep Demna and they will recover from this just as D&G did. I know that’s an unpopular take on this as this forum seems like an echo chamber of Demna haters. But while the campaign was a total mistake, it’s definitely been blown out of proportion and the house has been very profitable prior to the incident. The fashion industry is just very detached from reality and this was a wake up call for them but definitely not a call for total cancellation.

But I don't even think D&G faced the same kind of drop in sales that is now plagueing Balenciaga. We're talking zero sales, budgets for the brand are being slashed.

No one is buying and retailers are not expecting anyone to start buying anytime soon.

 

[LadyJunon]

At this point I’m curious what the next step is. This guy is a good designer with a good design team, they’re able to do good things. Perhaps a focus on codes is smart now, something sober. But honestly this is not just some blown out internet thing, this is severely affecting their bottom line and brand image. Especially because they relied so much on branded merch, there’s no going back to that now. I honestly see no potential to returning to its former growth. It might go back to being niche again.

It might actually be where Balenciaga is supposed to be. Everytime executives want to pull Balenciaga into the heavy mainstream, it never seems to end well. Balenciaga seems to thrive when it's narrowed down to its essence: beautiful, innovative, exquisitely made clothes. I'm sure that Demna is more than capable at executing that.

 

[LadyJunon]

But I don't even think D&G faced the same kind of drop in sales that is now plagueing Balenciaga. We're talking zero sales, budgets for the brand are being slashed.

No one is buying and retailers are not expecting anyone to start buying anytime soon.

The key difference between Balenciaga and D&G is that Balenciaga is a subsidiary of Kering, which is a subsidiary of Artemis, which is a subsidiary of Financière Pinault SCA, while D&G is mostly independent.

The employees of Balenciaga serve the desires of the Pinault family, while the employees of D&G serve the desires of Dolce and Gabbana themselves.

 

[Deleted member 7575]

The key difference between Balenciaga and D&G is that Balenciaga is a subsidiary of Kering, which is a subsidiary of Artemis, which is a subsidiary of Financière Pinault SCA, while D&G is mostly independent.

The employees of Balenciaga serve the desires of the Pinault family, while the employees of D&G serve the desires of Dolce and Gabbana themselves.

What does that have to do with the amount of business they're losing?

 

[Deleted member 7575]

It might actually be where Balenciaga is supposed to be. Everytime executives want to pull Balenciaga into the heavy mainstream, it never seems to end well. Balenciaga seems to thrive when it's narrowed down to its essence: beautiful, innovative, exquisitely made clothes. I'm sure that Demna is more than capable at executing that.

But it's not where Kering wants it to be.

They want to make money!

Either way, considering where Demna's creative direction and Charbit's management have led the brand over the last few years, if doing a business with "beautiful, innovative, exquisitely made clothes" was what they wanted they'd probably need a different CD and CEO to execute it.

 

[BlueRuin]

But I don't even think D&G faced the same kind of drop in sales that is now plagueing Balenciaga. We're talking zero sales, budgets for the brand are being slashed.

No one is buying and retailers are not expecting anyone to start buying anytime soon.

This is all hearsay. Their advertising budget is still in tact. They are still big advertisers for magazines and their clothes are continuing to be photographed. No retailer has dropped them. Also the effects it is having in the Asian and European markets is vastly different than it is in the US. These broad generalizations from “friends who manages this store etc” is just not true.

 

[susseinmcswanny]

Yeah I don't know I see some people on instagram in Asia still doing big buys of all the latest crap that comes in. I'm so interested to see how this ends up playing out

 

[dodencebt]

I definitely think Kering will keep Demna and they will recover from this just as D&G did. I know that’s an unpopular take on this as this forum seems like an echo chamber of Demna haters. But while the campaign was a total mistake, it’s definitely been blown out of proportion and the house has been very profitable prior to the incident. The fashion industry is just very detached from reality and this was a wake up call for them but definitely not a call for total cancellation.

Sadly, I completely agree. I was part of a company's PR/SM team last year (a hot tech company, very dependent on subscriptions and the waves online) and we suffered a major PR crisis for something that went straight against our customers' values. We all thought it was over based on the media storm and outrage that followed, only for things to return to normal a month later. It was insane, and only shows how short people's attention span is these days.

 

[LadyJunon]

What does that have to do with the amount of business they're losing?

Less the loss, more the reaction to said losses. The executives at D&G will do everything in their power to follow D&G's demands while staying afloat, while Balenciaga executives can simply fire Demna and move on.

 

[Deleted member 7575]

This is all hearsay. Their advertising budget is still in tact. They are still big advertisers for magazines and their clothes are continuing to be photographed. No retailer has dropped them. Also the effects it is having in the Asian and European markets is vastly different than it is in the US. These broad generalizations from “friends who manages this store etc” is just not true.

Its not hearsay for me, I heard it straight from the head buyers mouth. I don't know about you but going from $500k per week down to the negatives in sales is pretty abysmal.

It would be silly to think this wasn't happening across all of their stockists in the US, which is their most important market.

You do the math.

They might be able to recover and bounce back but it seems unlikely that the same management team that got them into this mess is going to be able to get them out.