Demna Gvasalia - Designer, Creative Director of Balenciaga

[jeanclaude]

^^
I know the mainstream audience won’t care but it’s kinda brilliant to see the magic of Cristobal.
Clothes to die for…

Maybe back to a certain sobriety. Too bad they have to release both the campaign and products for SS2023…Even if I have a soft spot for the lays chips bags.

Bergé was something else…
One thing I have to give to him is that he was the same way in public and behind the scenes…very brutal.
He worked in fashion but he had connections in the political work (He was a big supporter of Francois Mitterand) and remained influential there too. So you can imagine between the tantrums and the influence…

I hope Pierre didn´t try to beat Tom Ford twenty years ago!

 

[jeanclaude]

This is the right path to go back to (my favourite Balenciaga period, the 60s, the most innovative and pure one ).

 

[LadyJunon]

This is the right path to go back to (my favourite Balenciaga period, the 60s, the most innovative and pure one ).

Honestly, seeing a modernised version of 30s to 60s Balenciaga would be amazing, but it can't just be an archive rehash. Balenciaga isn't a cocoon coat or a baby doll dress.

What I really the magic of Cristobal Balenciaga is that his 30s and 40s work is actually quite "by the book": with sloped shoulders, narrow waists, wide hips like a proto-Bar Suit. Then when Christian Dior comes in with a hyperfemimine version of that look, Cristobal just drops that look and starts experimenting with fabrics and silhouettes with a maddening passion.

I feel that experimental approach to making clothing is more important to Balenciaga than a specific silhouette and I applaud Demna for being able to keep up with the experimental approach in his own way, but I feel that maybe Demna, as he is, doesn't have much more to offer to Balenciaga at this point. Maybe that team restructuring might do him some good.

If he is eventually replaced, I pray that the replacement won't give us "Textbook Balenciaga" or even worse "Textbook Balenciaga by Thimister/Ghesquiére/Demna". Everyone will see right through it.

 

[Deleted member 7575]

I feel that maybe Demna, as he is, doesn't have much more to offer to Balenciaga at this point.

This is painfully clear.

 

[Drusilla_]

I definitely think Kering will keep Demna and they will recover from this just as D&G did. I know that’s an unpopular take on this as this forum seems like an echo chamber of Demna haters. But while the campaign was a total mistake, it’s definitely been blown out of proportion and the house has been very profitable prior to the incident. The fashion industry is just very detached from reality and this was a wake up call for them but definitely not a call for total cancellation.

that part "prior to the incident" is salient here.

I was of the same opinion as you (this is bad but it's a storm in a teacup, blown out of proportion by crazies etc) until the talk about empty stores/no shoppers/lost revenue i.e. the financial bottom line has taken a hit during what should be among the most profitable months of the year in North America. D&G are independent, the men themselves have been in control of their label since its inception, and they had 30 years of a legacy behind them to weather the cancellation of 2018 and loss of China revenue. Demna is a designer for hire at Kering. They might say f*** it, weather the storm and keep him, but if the sales continue to be hit, they will not. My guess is they wait and see if his Spring 2023 collection sells well, and that'll be arriving in stores not too far from now.

I mean, I still think the outrage was vastly blown out of proportion with how people began going after models and celebs and eventually even designers at other Kering labels, but the adverts and the way the response was handled, were in fact a really bad move. Demna was the one pushing this provocateur aspect in marketing, makes sense if he's the one burned by the blowback.

 

[Lola701]

That Balenciaga video makes me miss the Balenciaga Edition Line. That was really the link between the past and the then-modern Balenciaga Nicolas did.
‘The reveals! Stunning.
I love watching old 60’s or 70’s shows in the French Video archives. It’s such a weird but fun atmosphere in the salons…

I hope Pierre didn´t try to beat Tom Ford twenty years ago!

No just sent labour inspectors in the studio (to see if people weren’t working overnight by the time close to the show), mean articles in the press and I think the consensus in the industry was that Pierre was the one who sent the infamous letter « In 15 minutes you destroyed 40 years »…
Yves wasn’t necessarily a fan even if he liked the campaigns but he never expressed himself in such a brutal way.

I’m not so sure of the timeline anymore but if I remember well the opening exhibition of the fondation YSL happened the same day as Tom’s last show…

But I don’t think they ever saw each other again after the first show. Betty Catroux remained a supporter, went to the shows, the parties and diners but she was the only one. I wonder if she wore Tom’s clothes in front of Yves tho…

 

[Deleted member 7575]

@BlueRuin

Also, I agree that the whole thing was blown out of proportion. But I don't actually think it's the outrage that's causing the drop in sales.

I think the whole hullabaloo has taken the wind out of their sails.

These fashion brands must maintain the illusion of being unassailable arbiters of taste and style. When they commit a stream of very public gaffs, it really kills the vibe.

A good friend of mine is a Balenciaga customer. He understands it was just a mistake and he doesn't really care about the whole scandal. But even he is relieved that he didn't buy any more Balenciaga recently and he has no interest in buying anything anytime soon. It's people like this who are of actual concern, not the angry self-righteous who were never customers or going to buy anything anyways.

Like @Drusilla_ said, it's not necessarily the mistake they made but the series of mistakes they made handling it. It just puts a bad taste in your mouth no matter which way or angle you approach it.

Who really wants to drop all that cash on a brand that doesn't have their sh*t together?

 

[blueorchid]

I’m not so sure of the timeline anymore but if I remember well the opening exhibition of the fondation YSL happened the same day as Tom’s last show…

Oh, lol, don't forget the absolute mess of Yves and Pierre going to the Dior Homme show. (Ok, sometimes I wish there was a thread to discuss old fashion gossip. It's much more entertaining than what's currently going on.)

Maybe Balenciaga will find some goodwill (unearned on their part) when the Balenciaga mini-series that's supposed to come out on Disney+ in 2023 is released.

 

[Deleted member 7575]

that part "prior to the incident" is salient here.

I was of the same opinion as you (this is bad but it's a storm in a teacup, blown out of proportion by crazies etc) until the talk about empty stores/no shoppers/lost revenue i.e. the financial bottom line has taken a hit during what should be among the most profitable months of the year in North America. D&G are independent, the men themselves have been in control of their label since its inception, and they had 30 years of a legacy behind them to weather the cancellation of 2018 and loss of China revenue. Demna is a designer for hire at Kering. They might say f*** it, weather the storm and keep him, but if the sales continue to be hit, they will not. My guess is they wait and see if his Spring 2023 collection sells well, and that'll be arriving in stores not too far from now.

I mean, I still think the outrage was vastly blown out of proportion with how people began going after models and celebs and eventually even designers at other Kering labels, but the adverts and the way the response was handled, were in fact a really bad move. Demna was the one pushing this provocateur aspect in marketing, makes sense if he's the one burned by the blowback.

I agree. Sales of SS 23 will be the deciding factor and short of that, the extent to which the FW 23 show can shift the vibe and create new appeal.

 

[Deleted member 7575]

Oh, lol, don't forget the absolute mess of Yves and Pierre going to the Dior Homme show. (Ok, sometimes I wish there was a thread to discuss old fashion gossip. It's much more entertaining than what's currently going on.)

Maybe Balenciaga will find some goodwill (unearned on their part) when the Balenciaga mini-series that's supposed to come out on Disney+ in 2023 is released.

I didn't know about the show but it sounds like a fantastic opportunity to reset the brand and bring in new creative and executive leadership.

 

[Drusilla_]

I agree. Sales of SS 23 will be the deciding factor and short of that, the extent to which the FW 23 show can shift the vibe and create new appeal.

oh yeah I wouldn't count out the upcoming show to see if it can turn things around a bit, perception-wise, and lure customers back to buying the brand. I wonder how Balenciaga's Boxing Day sales are going so far, too.

 

[jeanclaude]

 

[jeanclaude]

'Balenciaga': Sinopsis, tráiler, reparto y fotos

 

[Deleted member 7575]

Uh, that looks amazing.

 

[GivenchyHomme]

Any discussion about the new show should be in its rightful thread and nowhere near this disaster.

1895-1972 Cristobal Balenciaga

 

[yslforever]

I’m not so sure of the timeline anymore but if I remember well the opening exhibition of the fondation YSL happened the same day as Tom’s last show…

But I don’t think they ever saw each other again after the first show. Betty Catroux remained a supporter, went to the shows, the parties and diners but she was the only one. I wonder if she wore Tom’s clothes in front of Yves tho…

Yves and Pierre did only the first show, then went to Dior Homme.
Betty Catroux got some Tom Ford garments but sent them to Yves' couture house to refit and accessorize them there, which amused Yves a lot and infuriated Pierre. Also she was gracious enough to give her enormous collection to the Foundation. Catherine Deneuve on the contrary auctioned it all (she never actually paid for anything), and the Foundation had to buy back a few pieces (but they already had most of the prototypes) and mean people there told me that her clothes were to much altered, meaning widened, to fit in the collection.

 

[Lola701]

Yves and Pierre did only the first show, then went to Dior Homme.
Betty Catroux got some Tom Ford garments but sent them to Yves' couture house to refit and accessorize them there, which amused Yves a lot and infuriated Pierre. Also she was gracious enough to give her enormous collection to the Foundation. Catherine Deneuve on the contrary auctioned it all (she never actually paid for anything), and the Foundation had to buy back a few pieces (but they already had most of the prototypes) and mean people there told me that her clothes were to much altered, meaning widened, to fit in the collection.

Very witty of Betty. She remained a real diplomat during that period. I know Tom gifted her the suit from his first eponymous collection he shot her in for Vogue Paris.
Indeed very gracious of her to donate all those clothes. They were gifted to her but she was much more elegant than Deneuve in that aspect…
I got to say that I was confused at first when she auctioned her stuff because I though she would have done an arrangement with YSL and Gaultier. I was surprised to see some pieces on Resee.

I love Betty. She never worked, she enjoyed herself and survived an entire generation.

Talking about auctions, fashion houses are making it very hard nowadays for us simple mortals. Everybody is building their archives and it’s really insane to get some pieces…And Hollywood stylists and their new found love for Vintage don’t make things easier.

 

[LadyJunon]

Very witty of Betty. She remained a real diplomat during that period. I know Tom gifted her the suit from his first eponymous collection he shot her in for Vogue Paris.
Indeed very gracious of her to donate all those clothes. They were gifted to her but she was much more elegant than Deneuve in that aspect…
I got to say that I was confused at first when she auctioned her stuff because I though she would have done an arrangement with YSL and Gaultier. I was surprised to see some pieces on Resee.

I love Betty. She never worked, she enjoyed herself and survived an entire generation.

Talking about auctions, fashion houses are making it very hard nowadays for us simple mortals. Everybody is building their archives and it’s really insane to get some pieces…And Hollywood stylists and their new found love for Vintage don’t make things easier.

I feel that this factor will probably become much worse considering that lots of "iconic" fashion houses will be approaching their "50 and 100 year marks" in the late 20s and 30s.

Even younger designers are (naively) building archives in anticipation of having exhibitions later in life.

 

[Drusilla_]

Very witty of Betty. She remained a real diplomat during that period. I know Tom gifted her the suit from his first eponymous collection he shot her in for Vogue Paris.
Indeed very gracious of her to donate all those clothes. They were gifted to her but she was much more elegant than Deneuve in that aspect…
I got to say that I was confused at first when she auctioned her stuff because I though she would have done an arrangement with YSL and Gaultier. I was surprised to see some pieces on Resee.

I love Betty. She never worked, she enjoyed herself and survived an entire generation.

Talking about auctions, fashion houses are making it very hard nowadays for us simple mortals. Everybody is building their archives and it’s really insane to get some pieces…And Hollywood stylists and their new found love for Vintage don’t make things easier.

hehe I love that anecdote about Betty!

I actually admire those who have always reworn pieces/wore vintage on the red carpet before it became trendy c. the late 2010s, like Kirsten Dunst and the Olsen twins (all of whom even bought their own pieces long into the "just borrow it" era).

And it's true that the newfound trendiness of "archive" makes it hard for us mortals to get our hands on older clothes ....but if you guys notice, the pattern tends to be that these prices are sky-high mainly for designers who are trendy in the present day/whose labels are still in business. Of course there are exceptions, like secondhand Lacroix has never been cheap, neither is Romeo Gigli (but you can still score some amazing things for two digit prices if you set an alert and are patient, I'm a little afraid he's already been mined though), no chance in hell I'm ever going to score things from Nicolas's Balenciaga era for cheap either (in fact I fear what will happen to those prices once his mid-later 00s work get 'rediscovered', it's going to go like McQueen) Vivienne Westwood prices have also spiked since the Tiktok generation discovered that choker but they were also never cheap (edit: I just read about her death...rest in peace, queen....and yes, it's going to send prices of her label higher too) ,....but mostly, if you have a handful of the better fashion magazines from 2005-10, you can score some nice pieces for accessible and sometimes dirt cheap prices if you look on ebay or therealreal. I mean, we're not ever going to score couture gowns for pennies but I once saw a Theyskens-era Rochas top (worn by Gemma in the show) going for $58 on TRR. And let's not forget, so much of the secondhand prices are about perception too. John Galliano's pieces for his own label were going dirt cheap for years, even his Dior stuff (and Dior is never cheap) was comparatively undervalued because his name was still tainted by the incident that got him fired. It wasn't until the late 90s/00s became trendy again and then MGC reissued the Saddle bags, that the prices spiked. so far Alber-era Lanvin can still be found for not-absurd prices, and I know TFS aren't big fans of Marc Jacobs, but we can't deny he was hugely influential to the everyday look of a certain type of mid-late 00s girls, a lot of his work from then is going for sub-100 on TRR, and that includes stuff in natural fabrics/made in the U.S.A.

Bringing this back to Balenciaga/Demna - now might actually be a good time to start looking for secondhand Balenciaga, if anyone is a fan of Demna-era work, since the scandal might have, as @Mutterlein put it, taken the wind out of the brand's sails a bit and there's a chance that might be reflected in prices (I liked his first collection but would only pay for Ghesquiere era stuff secondhand if I could afford it that is).

 

[LadyJunon]

hehe I love that anecdote about Betty!

I actually admire those who have always reworn pieces/wore vintage on the red carpet before it became trendy c. the late 2010s, like Kirsten Dunst and the Olsen twins (all of whom even bought their own pieces long into the "just borrow it" era).

And it's true that the newfound trendiness of "archive" makes it hard for us mortals to get our hands on older clothes ....but if you guys notice, the pattern tends to be that these prices are sky-high mainly for designers who are trendy in the present day/whose labels are still in business. Of course there are exceptions, like secondhand Lacroix has never been cheap, neither is Romeo Gigli (but you can still score some amazing things for two digit prices if you set an alert and are patient, I'm a little afraid he's already been mined though), no chance in hell I'm ever going to score things from Nicolas's Balenciaga era for cheap either (in fact I fear what will happen to those prices once his mid-later 00s work get 'rediscovered', it's going to go like McQueen) Vivienne Westwood prices have also spiked since the Tiktok generation discovered that choker but they were also never cheap (edit: I just read about her death...rest in peace, queen....and yes, it's going to send prices of her label higher too) ,....but mostly, if you have a handful of the better fashion magazines from 2005-10, you can score some nice pieces for accessible and sometimes dirt cheap prices if you look on ebay or therealreal. I mean, we're not ever going to score couture gowns for pennies but I once saw a Theyskens-era Rochas top (worn by Gemma in the show) going for $58 on TRR. And let's not forget, so much of the secondhand prices are about perception too. John Galliano's pieces for his own label were going dirt cheap for years, even his Dior stuff (and Dior is never cheap) was comparatively undervalued because his name was still tainted by the incident that got him fired. It wasn't until the late 90s/00s became trendy again and then MGC reissued the Saddle bags, that the prices spiked. so far Alber-era Lanvin can still be found for not-absurd prices, and I know TFS aren't big fans of Marc Jacobs, but we can't deny he was hugely influential to the everyday look of a certain type of mid-late 00s girls, a lot of his work from then is going for sub-100 on TRR, and that includes stuff in natural fabrics/made in the U.S.A.

Bringing this back to Balenciaga/Demna - now might actually be a good time to start looking for secondhand Balenciaga, if anyone is a fan of Demna-era work, since the scandal might have, as @Mutterlein put it, taken the wind out of the brand's sails a bit and there's a chance that might be reflected in prices (I liked his first collection but would only pay for Ghesquiere era stuff secondhand if I could afford it that is).

I believe that the huge reason why Ghesquiére's Balenciaga, Lacroix and Gigli sell for so high on the 2nd hand market is mainly because those designers were always more reputed to having created collectable items, especially with the heavy couture (or couture-adjacent in Balenciaga's case) craftsmanship some items have.

Alber was an respected and appreciated designer at Lanvin, but he never created the strong tsunami waves in the industry like Ghesquiére, nor does his subversive ladylike aesthetic attract the "cool fashion mainstream". Marc Jacobs is having a renaissance, but he's mostly known for the Heaven diffusion line these days, than the glamorous showman of his Louis Vuitton days and the prices reflect that.

Even Olivier Theyskens (whose craftsmanship rivals Ghesquiére's) remains widely unknown to that demographic because the first edition of his eponymous label closed 20 years ago, followed by the two short-lived tenures at Rochas and Nina Ricci, a more successful but less distinct tenure at Theory and a reboot that has been tainted by COVID-19 and has only been thriving recently, albeit shrunken down to a very small scale.