Designer John Galliano Arrested in Paris, fired from Dior | Page 39 | the Fashion Spot

Designer John Galliano Arrested in Paris, fired from Dior

Status
Not open for further replies.
At the end of the day, though, if we're talking about the video, he wasn't in the midst of a big group of Nazi-sympathisers, when he said it and he didn't get up on a soap box, in the middle of town, sober, sane and unprovoked and start ranting about the joys of Nazism, did he?


Doesn't make it right, of course, by any means - but, apparently, the HUGE differentiation must still be made, lest some people have, somehow, missed it.

It's absolutely irrelevant for the case that that are much worse instances of racism. And there are. He spouted racial abuse he should be fired, particularly when he is the representative of something as huge as Dior. I do not see in what way things could have been more straightforward.

I would not put it past Dior that they already Knew of all of this and just took the chance to get rid of someone that of late was becoming problematic and not as good, but the truth is and they know it, whatever their reasons they are still in the right and will take the praise for their high moral standard because yes, you do have to fire someone that racially abuses people in bars.
 
Jewish people in the French capital live in the shadow of hatred
Antisemitic comments allegedly made by the designer John Galliano come as no surprise in the Marais quarter of Paris

Kim Willsher
The Observer, Sunday 6 March 2011
Orthodox-Jews-in-Street-i-001.jpg

Orthodox Jews in the Marais district of Paris where John Galliano allegedly made his comments. Photograph: Alamy

Like most Paris schools, the Ecole des Hospitalières-Saint-Gervais bears a sombre plaque. It reads: "165 Jewish children from this school, deported to Germany during the second world war, were exterminated in the Nazi camps. Do not forget."

In this district, known as the Marais, the heart of Paris's oldest Jewish quarter, gay bars rub shoulders with falafel cafés, kosher restaurants, synagogues and prayer rooms. Its labyrinthine streets have been home to Jews on and off since the 13th century. Ten days ago, however, it also played host to John Galliano.

The alleged infamous outburst of the Dior designer, who has now been sacked, in which he is said to have abused a Jewish woman and her Asian boyfriend, was offensive on many levels – not only because of what he allegedly said, but because of where he said it. It was in a bar just a few paces from the Hospitalières-Saint-Gervais that the couturier, who is British but has lived in the French capital for two decades, was arrested. And it was also where, last year, he was filmed telling two women he believed to be Jewish that he loved Hitler.

His reported behaviour has shocked France and the fashion world. Yet in what locals call the pletzl – "little place" in Yiddish – it provoked little surprise. Local residents and traders say that the insult "sale juif" (dirty Jew) is a fact of daily life; asking a local if they have suffered abuse provokes a quizzical stare as if you are trying to be funny. "Bien sûr" ("of course") is the most common reply.

"It's stating the obvious," says one kippah-wearing youngster in the Rue des Rosiers, the Jewish quarter's main street. "We hear what Galliano said, or versions of it, every day, sometimes several times every day." Like many I speak to, he prefers not to be named.

Standing in the doorway of a grocery shop, Dan points to his wide-brimmed black hat. "My 80-year-old neighbour told me that when she was growing up they used to say we Jews wore these hats to hide our horns, and long black coats to hide our tails," he says, laughing.

"She would tell me not to let my boys wear their [skull] caps in case 'they' come back. More than 50 years after the war, she still thought it could happen again."

At the Sacha Finkelsztajn pastry shop, famous for its apple strudel and cheesecake, two women shrug when Galliano's alleged antisemitic diatribe is mentioned. Over the road in the Panzer, a grocery store, the shop assistant refuses to talk about Galliano. "We're always being called 'dirty Jews'; there's always been antisemitism here and there always will be. It upsets me, but it doesn't shock me." Galliano was filmed telling the two women he thought were Jewish that their relatives would have been "****ing gassed".

In La Perle, the trendy bar where the designer – who denies being antisemitic – was arrested after another alleged outburst, Jérôme says: "France invented the term 'antisemitism'."

He says he would like to write a book on "happy" events in Jewish history, but adds that he would need time to research some. "I find it depressing that whenever I talk to my son about Jewish history it's just one long list of terrible events."

Like a sore that never completely heals, antisemitism erupts in France, which has the biggest Jewish community in Europe, with depressing regularity. Toni Kamins, the American author of The Complete Jewish Guide to France, observes that since Roman times Jews have been subject to vilification and humiliation. It is a history scarred with mass expulsions, forced conversions to Christianity, crippling taxation, segregation and "both systematic and random physical violence and murder".

The French revolution and the early 19th century saw the country's Jewish citizens emancipated. But the undercurrent of hatred persisted, culminating in the Dreyfus affair in 1894, with the trial and false conviction of Alfred Dreyfus, a French military officer of Jewish descent, which is often described as one of the most influential events in the modern history of French Jewry. Dreyfus became a byword for antisemitism.

At the time of Nazi occupation in 1940, as many as 9,000 Jews lived in the Marais. Many of them were among the estimated 76,000 French Jews who were deported between 1942 and 1944 to Auschwitz-Birkenau, where most were exterminated on arrival.

In 1982, after a terrorist bomb planted outside the Copernic synagogue in Paris killed four people – only one of them Jewish — the then prime minister, Raymond Barre, spoke of "a heinous act" that had struck "innocent French people". When a British-born rabbi, Michael Williams, tried to visit the injured in hospital, he says he was told: "Get the hell out of here. You're responsible for this."

Then, in 2006, a 23-year-old mobile-phone salesman was kidnapped and horrifically tortured for three weeks before being left for dead because he was Jewish and his Muslim attackers assumed his family had money.

Until recently the extreme-right Front National of Jean-Marie Le Pen was the political face of antisemitism in France. Since his daughter, Marine, became leader, it has moved away from historical revisionism and has its sights on France's Muslim population.

In the Marais, many Jews now blame antisemitism on immigrants from France's former north African colonies, and on the country's traditional special relationship with Arab countries.

The Jewish community's Protection Service documented 466 reported antisemitic incidents in 2010 – down from a 10-year peak of 974 in 2004 – but says many more go unreported. It says most attacks can be linked to Muslim fundamentalists.

Politically, the "Jewish question" is often a scratch from the surface in France. A fortnight ago Le Monde reported that French internet surfers searching for information on politicians typed a name followed by "Juif" ("Jew") more frequently than in any other nation. Olivier Ertzscheid, an internet specialist at Nantes University, said this could "reveal the mentality" of the country.

A French newspaper website recently asked: "Is France ready for a Jewish president?" Dominique Strauss-Kahn, head of the International Monetary Fund and a potential candidate in next year's presidential elections, was recently described by an opponent as "cosmopolitan" and "not the image of rural France", both well-known French euphemisms for being Jewish.

Jérôme believes the idea of the "enemy within" – epitomised by the Dreyfus case – is a cause of antisemitism that is unique to France. "I think it makes some people angry that Jewish people are so well integrated that, while they know we are here, they don't know who we are."

He describes a Gallic attitude to its Jewish population that is two-faced: "The Jews who were deported and died during the second world war were mostly denounced by French people, but those French Jews who remained in France and lived were saved by French people."

It is 4.30pm, and across the other side of the Marais from La Perle the bell rings at the Jewish school. Pupils do not stream out of the door. Instead, a nervous-looking man with a walkie-talkie propels them into waiting cars.

In his grocery store, not far from Goldenbergs, the restaurant that was targeted by terrorists in 1982 and is now a men's clothing shop, Dan says that local people live in fear of attack. But he adds: "It's a peaceful place on the whole. We have a Jewish saying: you can tell what's in the heart of a man by how he behaves when he's drunk, when he's angry and when he has money. I think we have seen what's in the heart of Galliano."
guardian.co.uk
 
guardian.co.uk
We have a Jewish saying: you can tell what's in the heart of a man by how he behaves when he's drunk, when he's angry and when he has money. I think we have seen what's in the heart of Galliano."
I agree with that saying.

Btw. for the people that are making excuses for Galliano's behavior.. or that it was a set-up or some kind of conspiracy to get rid of him..
The video was from last year. The couple that was assault with anti-Semitic insults was this year. It was a separate incident at the same cafe.
 
We have a Jewish saying: you can tell what's in the heart of a man by how he behaves when he's drunk, when he's angry and when he has money. I think we have seen what's in the heart of Galliano."
I agree with that saying.

Btw. for the people that are making excuses for Galliano's behavior.. or that it was a set-up or some kind of conspiracy to get rid of him..
The video was from last year. The couple that was assault with anti-Semitic insults was this year. It was a separate incident at the same cafe.

And who here do you think did not understand that from the beginning?

It's not a matter of making excuses. It's a matter of saying we don't know what happened and we don't have the full unedited clip.

And as for conspiracy - the reason people are mentioning that the timing is weird is that the clip with the giggling girls is from quite a while back - so the question is why it surfaced now.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
By Dior/LVHM? But wouldn't it be easier to politely severe the ties? Or are you thinking that they felt Dior was so reliant on Galliano that they first had to drag him through the mud to make people hate his guts?


I honestly don't know, possibly?

Maybe they thought that he is/was so much part of Dior, now (and considered responsible for its resurrection), that they couldn't just fire him without some sort of almighty scandal, without invoking the unending wrath of the fashion brigade?

Or maybe the whole thing is just totally innocent, on their behalf? Could well be, in fact.

It's just a nagging, gut feeling I have that there is something more to all of this than meets the eye. Things just don't seem to add-up, somehow, IMO?

All feels too convenient. Not to mention the timing...

Nothing more than that, really.
 
Set up?! Nah...probably not. However there is something to the phrase of "giving one enough rope to hang oneself".

Based on things I've been reading all over the interwebz, I'm pretty convinced that these tirades were NOT some one off thing here, but something that's been going on for sometime w/ Galliano. If that's the case, methinks it was known/rumored among many fashion people, some of the fashion press, and probably the brass of LVMH. They simply hid it until they couldn't (ie these public incidents) and now they're acting outraged whilst running scared. Does anyone really think racism is rare in fashion? Apparently so because that his being "caught" is the big new rather than the fact that this is an underlying tho obvious issue.

If any cover up happened, it was hiding his actions until it was no longer possible to do so.
 
It's absolutely irrelevant for the case that that are much worse instances of racism. And there are. He spouted racial abuse he should be fired, particularly when he is the representative of something as huge as Dior. I do not see in what way things could have been more straightforward.


My point wasn't that there are far worse instances of racism, though.

In your previous post (to which I was replying) you said;


'Plus complacency and the decision to not judge the when initially people were being racially targeted was exactly why the Holocaust happened, the german population were not rabid racists, they just choose to turn a blind eye to something at the end of the day did not concern them.'


So, I was just trying to point out that this particular incident, with JG, could hardly be viewed as the beginnings of some sort of Neo-Nazi uprising, which we may be in danger of being too complacent about.

There may well be Neo-Nazi uprisings going on in Europe, as we speak (sadly, it would not be that surprising, given the economic and political climate), that we are not yet aware of and we must all be, continuously, on our guard for them.

However, I very much doubt that John Galliano is at the forefront of one of them.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
If any cover up happened, it was hiding his actions until it was no longer possible to do so.

or maybe until 'the other side' wanted him out. galliano said what some big designers actually do. look at Karl. a while ago he acted (on french TV) like there is diversity in modeling, the man was faking it.... thats not john's defense, but if we, people who love fashion, take a look at the bigger picture we will see that fashion is all about prejudice.
 
i think it s sickening how Dior wants to have nothing to do with John now. That collection would be nothing without Galliano. Hell, Dior itself would be nothing if it weren t for him.
he brought Dior back to life after it was DEAD. they should be grateful to him for life that he made them billions. the turnover is basically four times what it was before he started. good luck finding a designer who would do as much.
firing him was a huge mistake i hope they live to regret it
 
Last edited by a moderator:
The Guardian said:
In 1982, after a terrorist bomb planted outside the Copernic synagogue in Paris killed four people – only one of them Jewish — the then prime minister, Raymond Barre, spoke of "a heinous act" that had struck "innocent French people". When a British-born rabbi, Michael Williams, tried to visit the injured in hospital, he says he was told: "Get the hell out of here. You're responsible for this."


I can certainly see how this could be read as an anti-semitic insult. However, I think it could also, equally well, be taken as an anti-British one, TBH?

Unfortunately, there is very often little love lost between the French and the British and I think many French people think the British blindly support the US too much (in wars in the Middle East and so on).

French people often refer to both Brits and Americans as 'Anglo Saxons'; as though we're all, still, one nationality (or race) and exactly the same in our attitudes and beliefs.



We have a Jewish saying: you can tell what's in the heart of a man by how he behaves when he's drunk, when he's angry and when he has money. I think we have seen what's in the heart of Galliano."


I don't agree with this saying, at all.

You would lead a very lonely, disillusioned, life if you really believed that people's true selves were only exposed through drink, anger, or money. :(

People are not black or white (and I don't mean that racially, of course!), we are all shades of grey.

We all have our good sides and our bad sides - we are not just one thing, or the other and I would really hope that we are not just the sum of our lowest moments in life?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
^I've also never bought in vino veritas. Seen too much strange stuff for that....I guess a lot of people have either never seen debauchery or they have, err, forgotten all about it.

It will be interesting with the Galliano presentation that is to take place in Paris in about 5 minutes. My guess is they took some of the best stuff for the Dior collection and will leave this collection quite horrible. Dior/LVHM own 92% of Galliano. Why would they leave anything intact now that they've decided to throw him to the wolves?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
My point wasn't that there are far worse instances of racism, though.

In your previous post (to which I was replying) you said;


'Plus complacency and the decision to not judge the when initially people were being racially targeted was exactly why the Holocaust happened, the german population were not rabid racists, they just choose to turn a blind eye to something at the end of the day did not concern them.'


So, I was just trying to point out that this particular incident, with JG, could hardly be viewed as the beginnings of some sort of Neo-Nazi uprising, which we may be in danger of being too complacent about.

There may well be Neo-Nazi uprisings going on in Europe, as we speak (sadly, it would not be that surprising, given the economic and political climate), that we are not yet aware of and we must all be, continuously, on our guard for them.

However, I very much doubt that John Galliano is at the forefront of one of them.

Of course he will never be a spokesmen for neo nazi organization,but do you actually think only card owners of far right organizations are dangerous or the only ones that spout racial abuse? Tolerating what is a relatively small racist incident is exactly how you plant the seeds for bigger problems. And not at all because he may became dangerous, accepting what he said as something normal is the REAL danger. You can't be complacent or make excuses, what kind of message is that? That as long as racist abuse can be circumscribed to a few people and the incident is obscure, it can be tolerated? It's never OK.
Regardless, this is not even the case of Galliano, he's a public figure and a representative of a huge fashion house.
 
About the people giggling in the video... personally sometimes when I'm insulted by people I have no personal connections to (random strangers), I sometimes laugh at their ignorance.

I think many people here are getting too far ahead with the topic in hand.

1. He said something offensive while drunk. Did he mean it? Probably not (or probably yes), but it was extremely offensive nonetheless and no matter how much talent he had in fashion design what he said was offensive, DRUNK OR NOT.

It took me a while to actually even begin replying in this thread since so many personal theories and assumptions from members were being posted about Galliano being mentally ill and such.

As for Dior/LVMH firing him, it's understandable and I don't think they're ignoring the fact that Galliano was talented, but let's not kid ourselves, the atelier does most of the physical work and Galliano needed the atelier to carry out his designs. And for the past few years we can all agree that most of his designs for Dior can be summed up as "uninspired" or "lazy at times". Could Toledeno have been a bit nicer with his speech and more thoughtful to Galliano? Yes he could have, but I don't think him being nice to Galliano is in his mind and even a priority at this point.
 
or maybe until 'the other side' wanted him out. galliano said what some big designers actually do. look at Karl. a while ago he acted (on french TV) like there is diversity in modeling, the man was faking it.... thats not john's defense, but if we, people who love fashion, take a look at the bigger picture we will see that fashion is all about prejudice.

Who's "the other side" you're referring to? :unsure: On the matter of Karl Lagerfeld, I completely agree w/ you. That guy has skated very close to the edge numerous times w/ dubious and tactless comments (not just on race issues either), but he gets a free pass where others wouldn't. The major difference between Uncle Karl and Galliano is that he is always in control of himself and knows how to walk the line w/o going over it. No matter how he'd felt, he'd never let himself get caught out like Juan Carlos did. Karl knows just how far to go and no further. That's why he's survived in this rat race where so many others fell by the wayside many moons ago.
 
And who here do you think did not understand that from the beginning?

It's not a matter of making excuses. It's a matter of saying we don't know what happened and we don't have the full unedited clip.

And as for conspiracy - the reason people are mentioning that the timing is weird is that the clip with the giggling girls is from quite a while back - so the question is why it surfaced now.

Maybe because those that filmed it wanted to make a quick buck, milking the controversy for what it's worth? Maybe they believed the video would've fallen by the wayside had it surfaced some other time? Maybe because they didn't know he was famous at the time of filming? Or maybe because it's quite a common thing - Galliano getting pissed and raving like a nutter - which locally everyone knew about, and so those that filmed it didn't believe it would stir up a hornet's nest? Maybe they filmed it to show it to their friends and have a laugh, because, frankly, it is a ridiculously - almost comically - pathetic rant?

Thing is, the video proves that this isn't an isolated incident; maybe it's even a frequent occurrence to which locals turn a blind eye to because, hey, if the Guardian article is true, anti-semitism is quite common in this area of France. A person who isn't even the least bit anti-semitic won't repeatedly go on to make anti-semitic/racial remarks. He hasn't been brought to book for his previous contraventions, which is why he felt it'd be OK to hurl remarks at someone again, believing he'd go scot-free. Too bad they raised a stink. That he's made such remarks on more than one occasion itself warrants his sacking.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
And yet there is such a thing as sarcasm. Imagine these girls offended him and asked him "What do you think of Hitler" and he responds "I love Hitler because then you would have been dead." A flippant, silly, retort, nothing more....run of the mill. Unless you take it out of its context, slap chosen pieces together and release it right when he's been arrested in a brawl one week before the Dior show and two nights before the Academy Awards.

Wow. That's all I can say. There's a lot of reaching going on both in this thread and in the media and it's both embarrassing and sad.

I think it's extremely safe to say that (thankfully!) no one is 'turning a blind eye', here?

FAR from it, in fact.

If by 'here' you mean TFS I would have to heavily disagree.
 
I didn't read through the whole thread, but am I the only person who find the timing of the incident curious? The terrible tape was shot long time ago, no? Why was it suddenly out right before the show? Perhaps the looks were done, and all they needed was to style them (turned out to be a terrible job)? Perhaps if they fired JG after the show, nobody would buy the collection? Here is a worse (and wild) hypothesis: Dior actually knew about JG's antisemitism comments before and they tolerated it. If that's the case, I think that I'm done with Dior as a corporation.
They tried to sell the video to french medias but no one wanted it. There are several explanations possible: publicity contract with Dior, fear of the severe french legislation on a person privacy, video too expensive... That's why they turned to The Sun. If the infamous video was already known in the media circle I can't imagine Dior never heard of it before.
http://www.arretsurimages.net/vite.php?id=10521
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Wow. That's all I can say. There's a lot of reaching going on both in this thread and in the media and it's both embarrassing and sad.



If by 'here' you mean TFS I would have to heavily disagree.

The most likely thing is that he is drunk and instable and throwing insults around him - regardless who or what. But it is also possible it's a flippant retort.

What's embarrassing about suggesting that? What is truly embarrassing is that half of the paid journalists out there are so thick they misquote Galliano. To his disfavour, needless to say.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users who are viewing this thread

Forum Statistics

Threads
215,464
Messages
15,303,748
Members
89,476
Latest member
yuping
Back
Top