Kramer (Seinfeld) in racist video

[Gypsy_Doll]

Great that you can separate those two things out. Seeing Michael Richards and thinking of his comments (which referenced lynching African Americans who interrupt a white man) turns my stomach.

What was very telling for me was his saying "That's what happens when you interrupt a white man". A slick lil' way of sayin' "Know your place, boy!" .

 

[oanadobre]

Please keep this discussion within tFS guidelines, or else it will be stopped.

 

[mellowdrama]

People shouldn't say mean things to one another, unless they're trying to start a fight, so then there should be a fight, then everybody should wipe their bloody noses and say they're sorry for calling one another bad names. Next, everybody's Mothers should make their sons their favorite food and explain why it's wrong to call someone a bad name, even if they called you a bad name first, and how you shouldn't hit. Then the Mothers need to call each other on the phone and apologize for their sons' rude behavior. Finally, the Moms force the boys to get together, say they're sorry, and make them play nice. Something like that.

 

[kissmesweet]

That's disgusting.

 

[electricladyland]

^^ The "sticks and stones" defense of prejudice. Sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me. I used to say that as a kid to have the appearance of nonchalance in the face of verbal violence. But it wasn't true. Words do wound. Especially when they have a history of physical violence, degradation, dehumanization, and genocide behind them.

 

[mellowdrama]

I politely disagree. And again, read the whole article from Jonathan Rauch entitled "In Defense of Prejudice." It is quite measured and thoughtful. Rauch, who is both gay and Jewish, shows how speech codes hurt the very people they're intended to help. He says if you ban one word, the attitudes do not change, just go underground, and new epithets are formed.

The failure, in my eyes, is not only in the idiot ramblings of Richards, but also of the comedy club. I've worked security at these kinds of gigs, and had security been paying attention, the hecklers' sorry ***es would've been bounced--likely by an African-American bouncer who'd have also used the forbidden word, albeit unmiked--before the act on stage goes ahead and makes an *** of themselves.

And I promise you the physical bouncing would've hurt more than the words did.

I have watched these heckling and general bad-behavior incidents happen many times without incident at countless hip hop, R&B, and comedy shows at the Fillmore and Warfield theaters. The security there--and they were white, black, Latin, and Asian/APA---were brethren against all forms of idiocy. You disrupt the show, you get bounced. After bouncing the hecklers, management would likely not book Richards again, either. Not for being racist, but for not being funny.

It's just not acceptable behavior from either party, really.

 

[mellowdrama]

While working security at a Halloween shop, a friend witnessed this happening:

A teenaged African-American male came into the store riding a razor scooter, and with a stick in his hand, proceeded to scoot down the aisles while knocking merchandise off the shelves with a stick. When told repeatedly by security that the behavior was unacceptable, with no effect, security then called the police. Upon arriving on the scene, the youth asked the police officers, Ali G like, "Is it because I am black?" and there on proceeded with the 400 years of genocide and slavery, yadda yadda yadda.

What do you say, "Yeah, we let all the white kids ride down the aisles on a scooter, knocking stuff off the shelves with a stick" ? It gets to be absurd after awhile. Some guy I don't even know drives up beside me and wants my phone number as I'm walking down the street--Oh, I'm racist b*tch if I don't give my phone number to weird guys driving up to me on the street? Please!

Acting like an *** in public doesn't mean someone should be called racist names, or treated poorly--but don't pull the race card to defend bad behavior. Richards screwed up, big time, and showed the power of The Word in all it's horrible glory. And Chris Rock tells the joke like I can't, and you know it's true. Don't dish it out if you can't take it.

 

[electricladyland]

Rauch's article should be an interesting read. I'd like to see how he makes his case. I'm much more in the camp of the critical race theorists whom he seems to critique. Of course, new words will be formed. That is part of the ubiquitous nature of hatred. It cannot be totally stamped out by attending to speech alone. Just as the sting of the n-word can obviously not be mitigated by the appropriation of it as a term of endearment. I, nonetheless, advocate watching speech acts carefully since words do have a power that can be measured only by one's/society's reaction to them.

As for the comedy club's reaction...really doesn't concern me, but I'm sure you're right about how it should've been handled.

 

[electricladyland]

Acting like an *** in public doesn't mean someone should be called racist names, or treated poorly--but don't pull the race card to defend bad behavior. Richards screwed up, big time, and showed the power of The Word in all it's horrible glory. And Chris Rock tells the joke like I can't, and you know it's true. Don't dish it out if you can't take it.

are you speaking to African Americans as a monolithic group? Don't dish it out if you can't take it? I've never dished it out. Perhaps why I can't take it.

 

[mellowdrama]

I finally made myself watch the clip and it is sickening. And the guys in the audience are right when they said "That's uncalled for". Listening/watching it makes it clear that Richards act was bombing, the "heckler's" really weren't heckling, and in general everybody in the audience was talking over the performance. Richards just picked out the black guys out of everyone else who was ignoring him to hurl hateful words at.

Ewww, it's alot worse than what I thought.

Race stuff makes me uncomfortable and I really didn't want to watch it. But from what I can see, yeah, he better apologize to those guys personally.

 

[mellowdrama]

are you speaking to African Americans as a monolithic group? Don't dish it out if you can't take it? I've never dished it out. Perhaps why I can't take it.

I was thinking specifically of the two hecklers calling Richards a "cracker" or whatever...but viewing the clip, apparently Richards went there first. Man, that's some ugly stuff. I don't even think they were heckling, just ignoring him and having their own conversation cos he was bombing.

But, really, if anybody heckled at the Fillmore or the Punchline when I worked there, they'd get bounced, it wouldn't matter who they were. In this case, it looks like they'd have had to have bounced the whole audience, because no one was listening until Richards starting screaming hate words like a maniac. There was no specific exchange that I could hear that set him off like that.

 

[mellowdrama]

The response of the two men in the audience from the Today Show.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ATWTKhmNWBU

 

[eternitygoddess]

Each and every person is a little bit racist, but this guy totally went off the deep end.'

Some of the comments on youtube are totally disgusting. People are actually condoning his actions.

 

[mellowdrama]

^ I agree, and that's what makes me so uncomfortable commenting on it. I didn't even watch the clip till today because I was afraid there was going to be ugliness from everyone involved, including the audience members, but from what I can see the men who were singled out were perfectly cool. Doing security in clubs with drunks, I have often been called foul names by people of all races and varieties, and I have seen people of all races and varieties do it to one another. It's often hard to say who's being "racist" in these situations--I've seen mixed-raced couples fight and use words like that, and they're supposedly "in love".

But this case is much clearer that I thought it'd be-- Richards really has got some serious issues. I guess I do, too, for assuming that the audience members somehow instigated the treatment they received before I even watched the video. That's sad and I admit it. But I've seen some awful stuff in my time, and none of this surprises me.

 

[high maintenance]

While working security at a Halloween shop, a friend witnessed this happening:

A teenaged African-American male came into the store riding a razor scooter, and with a stick in his hand, proceeded to scoot down the aisles while knocking merchandise off the shelves with a stick. When told repeatedly by security that the behavior was unacceptable, with no effect, security then called the police. Upon arriving on the scene, the youth asked the police officers, Ali G like, "Is it because I am black?" and there on proceeded with the 400 years of genocide and slavery, yadda yadda yadda.

What do you say, "Yeah, we let all the white kids ride down the aisles on a scooter, knocking stuff off the shelves with a stick" ? It gets to be absurd after awhile. Some guy I don't even know drives up beside me and wants my phone number as I'm walking down the street--Oh, I'm racist b*tch if I don't give my phone number to weird guys driving up to me on the street? Please!

Acting like an *** in public doesn't mean someone should be called racist names, or treated poorly--but don't pull the race card to defend bad behavior. Richards screwed up, big time, and showed the power of The Word in all it's horrible glory. And Chris Rock tells the joke like I can't, and you know it's true. Don't dish it out if you can't take it.

One persons bad behavior or even one jack ***es behavior does not speak for all blacke people. Yeah some idiots do play the race card as an excuse to do as they please, but not all. Not that you were saying everyone, I just felt the need to let that be known. And it gets ubsurd to people because because its not thier history, and it wasn't thier grandmother or grandfather being treated like an animal, so they have no idea, it wasn't their great grandmother or grandfather being hosed down inthe street like trash going in the sewer, so the yada yada yada, is very meaningful to some people, even if it wasn't to that idiot.

 

[high maintenance]

mellowdrama[/quote] I guess I do, too,[/quote]

But whats amazing is that some people can't even admit that, and I agree I think we all have some kind of prejudice in us, not even just toward races, it could be size, people with disorders, disabled, anything. I admire you for saying that, because some poeple think they are perfect and know it all