Some see racist theme in alien adventure 'Avatar'

[Escale Cherie II]

StoneSkipper made a really good point. Everyone made a good point, and it's nice to see others' views. I do think it might be a tad cliche with a white hero, but I don't think it's racist, and I didn't even notice it until I read the thread (kinda like the SP ep). Some people are on the track of saying any movie with that has white good guy and/or "doesn't have a perfectly multiracial cast, or a mixed race hero [from the post above me]" racist.
I agree with what Harumi says in her posts (if she considers "American" to be from North or South America, since I think James Cameron is Canadian). And technically, even if Cameron was racist, he's technically entitled to his beliefs. But again, I don't think he is. I think a lot of outcomes' meanings come from their intentions. I sure no racism or harm was meant, and I think that's very important.
Oh whatever. Whenever you have a big movie, there's always a controversy. Some people are outraged at Sigourney Weaver's characters' smoking (yet they aren't upset about the killing in the film), for example. (I've actually noticed on a LOT of IMDb message boards, controversies get pulled in where least expected, race being a common example. It's gotten so big that someone joked that some show like Teletubbies was racist and insensitive).

Oh, and in regards to The Matrix's Neo: I'm pretty sure Will Smith was offered the part of Neo, but he turned it down to do some flop western movie or whatever. Just for some consideration

 

[jun3machina]

i dont find this completely black and white racist, as many are taking sides, but i find the movie to be very racially insensitive.

i used the native american genocide as an example, not a singular basis for what i said, because of the many parrallels i personally can relate too, being native, and being offended by this film.

NPR did an interview with a group of native people that the film was shown too, as well. it was very interesting...

 

[uberwench]

i used the native american genocide as an example, not a singular basis for what i said, because of the many parrallels i personally can relate too, being native, and being offended by this film.

Ok, I thought your comment suggested that Avatar was simply a retelling of that historical incident.

Anyway, there's a difference between something being clearly, unobjectionably racist in that it endorses or reinforces racial discrimination and something which has general themes which are tangentially connected to race.

As for offence, this is a hugely subjective thing. Just because you are offended by something doesn't make it racist. That's just your way of looking at it. Maybe give the director the benefit of the doubt and think what it looks like from his point of view. I am oversensitive about certain things too, because they speak particularly to something in my background, but I hope that I can distinguish between things which are objectively wrong and things which I, personally, do not like because of my own background.

For the record, I don't think you have to be from an ethnic minority to be able to talk about racism, but I am mixed race. I really don't like the term 'racially insensitive'. I don't want anyone to be sensitive to my race or any other person's race.

Again, I just think that people who decide that Avatar is 'racist' have never really been subject to racism.

 

[jun3machina]

Ok, I thought your comment suggested that Avatar was simply a retelling of that historical incident.

Anyway, there's a difference between something being clearly, unobjectionably racist in that it endorses or reinforces racial discrimination and something which has general themes which are tangentially connected to race.

As for offence, this is a hugely subjective thing. Just because you are offended by something doesn't make it racist. That's just your way of looking at it. Maybe give the director the benefit of the doubt and think what it looks like from his point of view. I am oversensitive about certain things too, because they speak particularly to something in my background, but I hope that I can distinguish between things which are objectively wrong and things which I, personally, do not like because of my own background.

For the record, I don't think you have to be from an ethnic minority to be able to talk about racism, but I am mixed race. I really don't like the term 'racially insensitive'. I don't want anyone to be sensitive to my race or any other person's race.

Again, I just think that people who decide that Avatar is 'racist' have never really been subject to racism.

i dont think racism is the right term exactly for the hurt ethinic people are experiencing by this film. it's like a festering sore, and this movie picks at it rather than letting it heal.

i too and mixed race. but im not going to be ignorant and not be sensitive to the things that happened to people of my heritage on either side of my genetic make-up. to take these particular items and put them in a film, still angers and disturbs me because of how unoriginal it was done IMHO.

 

[uberwench]

I don't think I'm being ignorant. I just think I'm being open minded. I believe in free speech and I don't think people should be able to castigate filmakers just because they think for some reason they 'own' themes like colonisation and tribal identity vs technology.

You might have felt anger, but a friend of mine who has aboriginal ancestry loved it and has seen it four times. He's an 'ethnic person' but he's not feeling any 'hurt'. You have the right to not like the film, but just because you have issues with those themes and they're not themes you like to see on film, doesn't mean that it's an issue with the FILM and that others will have the same reaction as you. You don't own the right to expression about colonisation just because it's part of your history. It's part of a lot of people's histories. I know you're taking it very personally, but I think it's good to get perspective and realise it probably isn't just about you.

And it's a popcorn blockbuster. It's as deep as a puddle. Seriously. If it was a political documentary or a docudrama about the colonisation of North America I'd get all this victim mentality and angst, but it's a film about blue tree people who vanquish an evil mining company.

Anyway, you have a right to your opinion, I just think 'ethnically insensitive' is one of those labels which is thrown around quite freely and unthinkingly when it's quite a serious allegation. I mean, I get mildly annoyed when English people are portrayed in American movies as mustache-twirling, ridiculously-accented snobs (when I have always encountered more classism in posh New Yorkers than in the British aritos), but I realise it's not meant to be offensive, it's not meant to harm, malign or persecute, to perpetuate stereotypes which contribute to the oppression of a class of people... and since it's not any of those things, I realise it's just not a big deal.

 

[Mathewthew]

I dont find it racist....I love this movie so much and didnt even notice it...haha
the race that they talk I always think it's human, not a paticular group of human...and also the hero is "blue" not "white"....and he change his race at last.....so non sense .

 

[Psst!It's...Evie]

some people see a racist theme in everything. mostly racists.

And some people refuse to see racism even when it is there. Mostly the ones who dont have to.


PS. I am not talking about the movie, just in general.

 

[Harumi]

And some people refuse to see racism even when it is there.

Of course, but the point here is: if you see racism in everything you have as much issues than if you see racism in nothing.

 

[Psst!It's...Evie]

Of course, but the point here is: if you see racism in everything you have as much issues than if you see racism in nothing.

Agreed. I just HAD to respond to that comment.

 

[Psst!It's...Evie]

Okay Harumi, I wanted to say this to you a while ago, but gave up, cuz I kept getting logged out. I have gone over these posts and you seem to be very defensive, as if someone is talking to you. Like I said some people dont see racism cuz they dont have to. You seem to act like people are talking about you or something. Because you seem quite poked.

Just because people see racism in avatar and you dont doesn't mean it is not there, it just means that you dont understand where they are coming from, and because it might not be an issue for you. Also just because people see racism in something that you dont or in a lot of things dont meant they see it in everything. I dont know what happened in the movie because I haven seen it, hence me not commenting on it. But in regards to my first post in this thread, lunabella doesn't make any sense. Because racists are the ones that dont see racism at all, because they dont want to nor do they have to cuz they have the power and the numbers on their side not to. And just dont care to.

Racism is subjective. One might see it, one might not. It is what it is. But for some to start speaking for some and acting as if they are crazy when they say something bothers them, I just dont understand that.

 

[jun3machina]

^ thank you for that post ^^

 

[sojou]

Okay Harumi, I wanted to say this to you a while ago, but gave up, cuz I kept getting logged out. I have gone over these posts and you seem to be very defensive, as if someone is talking to you. Like I said some people dont see racism cuz they dont have to. You seem to act like people are talking about you or something. Because you seem quite poked.

Just because people see racism in avatar and you dont doesn't mean it is not there, it just means that you dont understand where they are coming from, and because it might not be an issue for you. Also just because people see racism in something that you dont or in a lot of things dont meant they see it in everything. I dont know what happened in the movie because I haven seen it, hence me not commenting on it. But in regards to my first post in this thread, lunabella doesn't make any sense. Because racists are the ones that dont see racism at all, because they dont want to nor do they have to cuz they have the power and the numbers on their side not to. And just dont care to.

Racism is subjective. One might see it, one might not. It is what it is. But for some to start speaking for some and acting as if they are crazy when they say something bothers them, I just dont understand that.

*Exactly* what I wanted to say but couldn't be bothered to...

...but now that I'm here p) I'd add again that I have seen the film and whilst I would say that it is not overtly racist, it follows an age old Hollywood/West-centric convention, which is racist in the eyes of many (including mine).

What I thought was weird was that if you look at the first/second pages of the thread, you will see many reactionary comments which all pretty much say the same thing i.e whatever, get over it, no racism, end of discussion. If you disagree with the initial post/article etc., fine, obviously that it your right to express that but taking on this really rude tone which suggests that anyone who even partly agrees with the article is crazy, is actually quite controlling and narrow-minded. Why not allow people to discuss the issue...why completely rubbish those with a different view with insightful(!) comments like 'crying wolf' and 'PC gone mad'. It's all about how you arrive at your conclusion and I found a lot of the posts hostile, dismissive and condescending in their tone, which made me question just what the posters are all about.

 

[Harumi]

I have gone over these posts and you seem to be very defensive, as if someone is talking to you. Like I said some people dont see racism cuz they dont have to. You seem to act like people are talking about you or something. Because you seem quite poked.

Defensive? No. Opinionated? Yes, most definitely.
I have strong opinions and I will argue and defend them, because debating is something I enjoy (so no, not poked. Passionate maybe).
I agree with you that my perspective is just that: my perspective. I don't see where you get the idea that I consider myself the source of universal truth, but I can assure you that I am aware that some people will agree with me, and other won't.

Just because people see racism in avatar and you dont doesn't mean it is not there, it just means that you dont understand where they are coming from, and because it might not be an issue for you.

Which is the point of debating.
You may have noticed that my posts tend to go for miles because I try to articulate my points so that people can see where I'm coming from.
I have not been convinced by any argument or counter-argument arguing that the movie was racist (intentionally or not), and I have stated so, with my reasons.
I don't expect anyone to agree with me, but I expect to be allowed to post my opinions.

As for racism not being an issue for me or something I have to deal with: with all due respect, you know too little about me (including my ethnicity that I never shared in these forums) to have the slightest clue what I have to deal with or not in my own life.

Also just because people see racism in something that you dont or in a lot of things dont meant they see it in everything.

OK, please point out where I ever implied that?

Racism is subjective. One might see it, one might not. It is what it is. But for some to start speaking for some and acting as if they are crazy when they say something bothers them, I just dont understand that.

I'm not sure if that part was addressed to me or to lunabella but the only part in this thread I found 'crazy' or as I wrote 'ridiculous' were some of the points made in the original articles, that were blatantly factually erroneous (see my first post).

That said, since the topic is pretty much exhausted and has turned in some sort of 'popular tribunal' with me as the defendant, I find it best to leave the discussion now.

 

[Mchunu]

*Exactly* what I wanted to say but couldn't be bothered to...

...but now that I'm here p) I'd add again that I have seen the film and whilst I would say that it is not overtly racist, it follows an age old Hollywood/West-centric convention, which is racist in the eyes of many (including mine).

What I thought was weird was that if you look at the first/second pages of the thread, you will see many reactionary comments which all pretty much say the same thing i.e whatever, get over it, no racism, end of discussion. If you disagree with the initial post/article etc., fine, obviously that it your right to express that but taking on this really rude tone which suggests that anyone who even partly agrees with the article is crazy, is actually quite controlling and narrow-minded. Why not allow people to discuss the issue...why completely rubbish those with a different view with insightful(!) comments like 'crying wolf' and 'PC gone mad'. It's all about how you arrive at your conclusion and I found a lot of the posts hostile, dismissive and condescending in their tone, which made me question just what the posters are all about.

Agree, agree, agree. Thanks for saying this.

 

[Shelton123]

Some see racist theme in alien adventure 'Avatar'

Some never see that they need a life.

 

[jun3machina]

and some bring nothing constructive to the conversation ^

 

[sojou]

^ yep, more of the same insightful stuff...

 

[foreverandnone]

I dont see how it's racist at all. If anyone, they make the white people look like douche bags.
I thought the movie was more geared toward the white man's will to destroy everything and have complete control over whatever they deem inferior to themselves. I thought it showed the na'vi as insightful, beautiful minded creatures in stark contrast to the greed the Tatus were displaying.
A story about human nature and it's vile and cruel underworld, and the thought process. Showing us that even 100 + years from where we are today, only our technology progresses and yet are morals and values are set in concrete and do not move forward in a progressive fashion. The views that if someone or something doesn't share the same moral fiber like us or follow the same rules of living then they are "savages" and worthless.

That's what I gathered from it, and I will be the first to say it's very accurate, the white and complete human race seems to think it rules all and owns whatever land they land on. And I am white. So I'm not biased.

If people think this is racist, then they clearly have not gathered anything in terms of what the film was trying to convey.

I thought the movie in 3D was AMAZINGGG

 

[dju dju]

it's becoming "cool" and "hip" to hate avatar hence all the rubbish thats being written, twitted etc
i think every1 sees what they want to see in the movie. it didnt cross my mind once that " a white dude, who wasnt happy with himself joined a tribe and became on of them and he became happy" etc or pocahontas theme.
however i did see the references to american foreign policies ( e.g. wars in iraq and even vietnam - there was a scene that looked so much like the apocalypse now) and also global trends in the ways we abuse the earth.
for me, the tall blue beautiful people are a metaphor of a potential within every human being. you can strive to be "tall" and "beautiful", and i mean in spiritual way.
its so easy to take things literal.

 

[allthatglitters]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but put in simple terms - isn't the Avatar a movie about a white man sent a mission to "learn" about the Na'vi's. .. ends up realizing they're a wonderful species all about love and spirituality.. and the people who ruin the day, and show no emotion or sympathy and bomb the whole village etc are materialistic money hungry WHITE Americans.. he then ends up becoming a Na'vi.. sorry ... racist??? if anything should be more offensive to white Americans!