Peter Do - Designer, Creative Director of Helmut Lang

[Deleted member 7575]

You'd think that until you read any recent interview on how this man designs.

He has claimed a couple to times find himself at odds with what he wants as a designer and what his audience demands from him.

He often bends to his audience to "keep the lights on". It's depressing to read.

Every designer has this. It's called DESIGNING.

He's no tortured artist.

 

[Mathewthew]

Every designer has this. It's called DESIGNING.

He's no tortured artist.

I'm a tortured designer everyday

 

[Lola701]

Every designer has this. It's called DESIGNING.

He's no tortured artist.

YSL and Bergé created monsters with that narrative of tortured artists.

 

[Kennnnn]

For me, it's really hard to imagine anyone but Helmut Lang designing Helmut Lang

 

[Phuel]

Peter Do is a good designer, but he caves into the direct wants of his clientele way too easily, something that can quickly drown out a designer's sartorial voice.

The biggest examples of that were the bastardisation of his signature 4-piece-suit, the overly long collections, the oversaturation of those hideous platform boots, the needless introduction of menswear and the new "S-M-L" brand sizing.

Hopefully, the Helmut Lang appointment will force him to balance his output and find another facet in his vision as he'll have to form a healthy distance between Helmut Lang and his eponymous label for both to succeed.



I don't think that Peter Do is really the "sexy designer" type, but I think that there's a slight risk of his work being too polite and lacking of the humour and erotic undertones Lang had.

Being heavily influenced by the less-than-discerning customer these days, in order to be more profitable, may be more of an apt term for a designer's survival these days. Of course designers may design as they wish, but giving the commoners what they want sure sells more and makes you more popular— and most importantly these days, your brand profitable.

I do see the logic in “blaming" the (less than discerning) casual customer for having so much influence on a designer’s design/style direction. To succeed instantly, to amass fame and wealth— more so for these designers employed by these huge conglomerates/corporations, must have such pressures to instantly be profitable rather than to evolve. Whereas, back when Helmut sold a share of his label to Prada, and Patrizio “advised” Helmut that the brand needed more commercial denim and tees, Helmut was still able to not accept thee “recommendations”, designers are obligated to them in 2023. It’s old-fashion peer pressure. And in these days of the industry behaving and acting/pandeirng with all the creative integrity of a 15yo desperately kowtowing to the peer pressures in order to be the coolest, mostest popular girl in HS. Demna is such a good example of this: His talent was always so much better than what he ultimately settled for and on; and he became huge because he lowered his standards, pandered to the SM mob, and gave them Warhol Pop Fast Fashion— hot for the first 15min, than disposed of to move on to the next gimmick mentality. It’s the sole reason why Balenciaga already looks so outdated. Also, Prada is another once-great brand that has been horrifyingly diluted to pander to the current outlet-mall sensibility, rather than lead with design integrity as it once it.

I get, and understand what you’re meaning. Unfortunately, the reality is, and always has been, that— even someone like Alexander McQueen had to put out more accessible/commercial collections that he was clearly not very happy with, and it’s more prevalent in theses very commercial times when the lines between high fashion and fast fashion is so blurred, designers need to make compromises, negotiated their sensibility, navigate through this extremely hostile and ruthless industry, and set their design integrity and standards low, if they want to be employed in 2023. And again, there’s no shame nor failure in being a steadily-employed dressmaker/tailor.

(Admittedly, I’m glad a decent talent who’s a capable dressmaker and studied tailor is given a try at this label, but as far as I’m concerned, Peter’s new appointment will be just another brick on the proverbial wall that all the rest whom have come before him have been banging their head on to absolutely no effect, and have ultimately missed everything that made OG Helmut so effortlessly cool, and timelessly modern. These days, I just don’t care nor feel precious about any designer/brand. Helmut will always be my first fashion love, and I frankly don’t care if they mangle this try, again. It’s only fashion.)

 

[RaisinBoy]

Peter Do or Don’t. That is the question!

 

[bc collector]

Whereas, back when Helmut sold a share of his label to Prada, and Patrizio “advised” Helmut that the brand needed more commercial denim and tees, Helmut was still able to not accept thee “recommendations”, designers are obligated to them in 2023

I'm not sure that's the right example, really. In fact everything Bertelli did when he acquired HL was aimed at belittling the brand, starting with the wretched decision (Bertelli's, not Helmut's) to discontinue the denim line. Whereas with Jil Sander there was at least a minimum effort to keep up the appearances and make it look like they were trying to do something with the brand (but the reality was totally different, as we all know), with HL, no, not even that, it was like the brand was managed out of the broom closet.
I don't know what to think about Do doing Lang: the skills are there, I'm not sure the sensibility is.
It reassures me that at Fast-retailing, being Japanese, they are serious when they put their mind to something, it was about time they made a serious effort to give the brand some life back. It could work, even if their know-how is mostly high-street based. But then, again, Helmut was never precious, he was the one who made functional clothing desirable...

 

[Lola701]

I'm not sure that's the right example, really. In fact everything Bertelli did when he acquired HL was aimed at belittling the brand, starting with the wretched decision (Bertelli's, not Helmut's) to discontinue the denim line. Whereas with Jil Sander there was at least a minimum effort to keep up the appearances and make it look like they were trying to do something with the brand (but the reality was totally different, as we all know), with HL, no, not even that, it was like the brand was managed out of the broom closet.
I don't know what to think about Do doing Lang: the skills are there, I'm not sure the sensibility is.
It reassures me that at Fast-retailing, being Japanese, they are serious when they put their mind to something, it was about time they made a serious effort to give the brand some life back. It could work, even if their know-how is mostly high-street based. But then, again, Helmut was never precious, he was the one who made functional clothing desirable...

Exactly, Bertelli stopped the Denim, which was the foundation of the brand success.
It was a time when unfortunately, people believed that success happened only by replicating the Gucci model.
The reality was also that minimalism wasn’t really on trend anymore (2001 was maybe the last season for minimalism), Lang never had a It-Bag and I don’t think the Fragrances were that successful.

I think that Lang would have had a better future if he stayed independent and seeked a future à la Dries but everybody wanted global success at that time.

The irony is that Hedi Slimane created a success with Dior Homme by using all the principles of Helmut Lang.

The real challenge for the brand will be with marketing. Peter Do doesn’t have a worldwide appeal. His crowd is very NYC. You can have better tailoring from Ami Paris and there’s nothing really exceptional in his approach to fashion. It’s almost too common.

‘I bet his work will be very American when Lang was above all an European in the US. Hopefully, his experience at Celine will help him to project that idea of international style for a very NYC-centric brand.

 

[Deleted member 7575]

Everyone has this belief that Prada bought Helmut Lang to ruin it but I'm sorry, that makes no sense.

 

[Lola701]

Everyone has this belief that Prada bought Helmut Lang to ruin it but I'm sorry, that makes no sense.

It’s totally a ridiculous belief but it has more to do with Bertelli’s reputation I think. The decline of HL happened so fast and coupled with Jil Sander’s various comebacks, it did not help.

‘They got along very well with Alaia (even if the partnership was different) but the business of fashion at that time was a total gamble and a lot of mistakes were made.

 

[Deleted member 7575]

It’s totally a ridiculous belief but it has more to do with Bertelli’s reputation I think. The decline of HL happened so fast and coupled with Jil Sander’s various comebacks, it did not help.

‘They got along very well with Alaia (even if the partnership was different) but the business of fashion at that time was a total gamble and a lot of mistakes were made.

He definitely did a terrible job with both.

It's crazy to imagine in an alternate universe somewhere there's a Prada group with a successful Jil Sander, Helmut Lang, and Alaia businesses under their umbrella.

 

[Phuel]

The irony is that Hedi Slimane created a success with Dior Homme by using all the principles of Helmut Lang.

I think you’ve mentioned before that Hedi’s Dior Homme was a natural successor to Helmut, and it’s an extremely accurate observation. I’ve always felt and saw the similarity as well (not sure if I even may have posted this in the past); that at their core of their hugely influential modern aesthetics, a discipline in classic tailoring and classic construction always dominated their sensibilities. All the Greats have/had that discipline. One superior advantage Dior Homme has over Helmut Lang, was that the branding for DH was so impactful for those of us in growing into our 20s during Hedi’s Dior reign. Helmut’s campaigns were everywhere in NYC in the early-2000s, but they never left an impression the way that Hedi’s DH had. Hedi really is the only one who was ever on the same wavelength as Helmut’s sensibility. You’ve mentioned Raf, but he was always too heavy-handed and incapable of restraint and subtlety, although his Calvin Klein women’s was solid; the men’s however…

What Helmut and Hedi’s Dior understood so well about menswear, was that unlike womenswear, men’s fashions doesn’t need to move in design progression that women’s do. Their suggestions were always more subtle, nuanced and evolved in a manner that made sense for the men they were dressing: And it’s a man that appreciates the intricacies of classic bespoke in structure and construction— combined with an appreciation of a modern, nonfussy modernity that eschews stuffy rules of dressing. It’s a sensibility that attracted me to them, and others like Prada, Dries, Tom’s Gucci etc. And ironically, it’s why i never enjoyed OG McQueen’s menswear, but fully appreciate Sarah’s McQueen menswear. When I look at the current menswear— or boyswear to be more precise, like the silliness at Gucci and Bottega, where men look either like infants dressed in boxy oversized cartoon costumes; or they’re this insufferable silhouette and cut that’s a mutation of awkward childrenswear and frumpy seniorswear (…eeeewww at the cut of the Bottega men’s pants that’s so 1989-pedestrian, complete with the awful pleats and the break at the hem), I wonder other than rich twinks and their middle-age gayz with pear-shaped bodies, what men would be attracted to dress like this…??? Whether Peter remembers/understands this about Helmut Lang, or whether he will dress men in silly fashiony bondage/punk gear tropes will determine if his take is worthwhile, or just another designer imposter to the already rotting once-great label.

Anyway, I wonder if Hedi had ever say if he were ever influenced by Helmut?

 

[Nimsay]

Helmit Lang was never that girl. The revisionist history. He only became popular after Hedi because his clothes went with Hedis DH.

that whole look was Jil Sander TF Gucci that Helmut was picking up on. Helmut was always lacking the glamorous fashion dust on his pieces.


Such strange angle - suddenly - to hear that menswear being non progressive is a good thing. I personally love mcqueen OG mens wear.

 

[Kennnnn]

Helmit Lang was never that girl. The revisionist history. He only became popular after Hedi because his clothes went with Hedis DH.

that whole look was Jil Sander TF Gucci that Helmut was picking up on. Helmut was always lacking the glamorous fashion dust on his pieces.

Actually, this is not true. Helmut Lang's influence and popularity predated Dior Homme by several years.

 

[Nimsay]

Actually, this is not true. Helmut Lang's influence and popularity predated Dior Homme by several years.

right but DH helped extend his popularity and relevance. helmut lang became a brand you buy to go with your DH. I recall being one of those people with my DH and mixing in HL because it went together. I was never an HL customer I was a DH customer.

i barely remember any of my HL pieces and I really never got his hype. I just felt like if I was gonna get bondage wear it would be Gaultier or Jitrois. I also dont think people know how much of a phenomenon DH was. Dior has been coasting off Hedi for a long time and only recently have they lost that momentum.

 

[Norden]

The reason this won’t work is because Helmut lang is an extremely difficult brand to design for. What all these designers working there don’t get is that Lang is almost a ‘lifestyle’ brand (sorry for this outdated term). When it started in Vienna he really captured what it was about back then, the music(ambient, downtempo sexy stuff), the nightlife, the art, sex and food was all connected. He looked like his client and probably lived like one also. This super cool European idea then exported to New York where it’s slick sheen really took off. That kind of atmosphere around the brand really sold well. Without that it just doesn’t work. Someone mentioned perfumes, while it wasn’t a great commercial succes, curion (spelling?) was a super logical Lang scent, it made so much sense for the brand and had a very dedicated fan base. To me the only brand that comes close is Rick Owens. If he ever launches a scent we all know roughly what it would smell like. Helmut had the same thing, and he didn’t achieve it by just designing clothes.

the only choice is to close the brand or re-edition archives. Same for margiela.

 

[Nimsay]

Prada keeps buying the brands with no look. Prada has no look, miu miu, jil and helmut lang. theyre working overtime currently to brand prada and miumiu and give them images.

both jil and helmut are “vibes” brands. They really never created propositions. Jil however had much more going on with her super minimal tailoring that is prob her code.

 

[Lola701]

I think you’ve mentioned before that Hedi’s Dior Homme was a natural successor to Helmut, and it’s an extremely accurate observation. I’ve always felt and saw the similarity as well (not sure if I even may have posted this in the past); that at their core of their hugely influential modern aesthetics, a discipline in classic tailoring and classic construction always dominated their sensibilities. All the Greats have/had that discipline. One superior advantage Dior Homme has over Helmut Lang, was that the branding for DH was so impactful for those of us in growing into our 20s during Hedi’s Dior reign. Helmut’s campaigns were everywhere in NYC in the early-2000s, but they never left an impression the way that Hedi’s DH had. Hedi really is the only one who was ever on the same wavelength as Helmut’s sensibility. You’ve mentioned Raf, but he was always too heavy-handed and incapable of restraint and subtlety, although his Calvin Klein women’s was solid; the men’s however…

What Helmut and Hedi’s Dior understood so well about menswear, was that unlike womenswear, men’s fashions doesn’t need to move in design progression that women’s do. Their suggestions were always more subtle, nuanced and evolved in a manner that made sense for the men they were dressing: And it’s a man that appreciates the intricacies of classic bespoke in structure and construction— combined with an appreciation of a modern, nonfussy modernity that eschews stuffy rules of dressing. It’s a sensibility that attracted me to them, and others like Prada, Dries, Tom’s Gucci etc. And ironically, it’s why i never enjoyed OG McQueen’s menswear, but fully appreciate Sarah’s McQueen menswear. When I look at the current menswear— or boyswear to be more precise, like the silliness at Gucci and Bottega, where men look either like infants dressed in boxy oversized cartoon costumes; or they’re this insufferable silhouette and cut that’s a mutation of awkward childrenswear and frumpy seniorswear (…eeeewww at the cut of the Bottega men’s pants that’s so 1989-pedestrian, complete with the awful pleats and the break at the hem), I wonder other than rich twinks and their middle-age gayz with pear-shaped bodies, what men would be attracted to dress like this…??? Whether Peter remembers/understands this about Helmut Lang, or whether he will dress men in silly fashiony bondage/punk gear tropes will determine if his take is worthwhile, or just another designer imposter to the already rotting once-great label.

Anyway, I wonder if Hedi had ever say if he were ever influenced by Helmut?

I don’t think Hedi ever mentioned being influenced by a designer…Maybe YSL even if it’s very obvious but I don’t recall. But when you look at his work at YSL and Dior Homme, you see a direct lineage. Nicolas, RAF and even Riccardo have referenced Helmut Lang and you the influence of his work in their aesthetic but it’s mixed with a lot of things.
What was interesting about was really the structure of the business beyond the aesthetic.
In terms of aesthetic there was that idea of extreme modernity, Hedi used to work on fabric development, the concept behind the music of the shows, stores that looked very modern and almost futuristic and this kind of almost break with the past. It was also the idea of the silhouette…

And when you look at the business of Dior Homme, it was build on jeans and sneakers.

Hedi’s real advantage was the name Dior. Because the name Dior evokes luxury. Helmut Lang is a brand that was IT at a time where there was still a kind of separation behind fashion and luxury. Only die-hard fans bought shoes and bags from Helmut Lang.

Bags and shoes are status symbols and people wanted to buy shoes and bags from quote on quote luxury brands. And that have been the problem for a lot of designers from the 80’s/90’s. If you think about it, Alaia is the only one of those « créateurs » who has acquired luxury status. It downsized so much that it became exclusive and therefore perceived as luxurious.

When you look at it, Montana, Mugler, Gaultier, Margiela and even Ferre and others never succeeded with accessories.

The name Dior added a touch of glamour to Hedi’s work. Progressive runway shows, intelligent merchandising, good quality and a quite fast expansion assured the success of Hedi. Suddenly there was a brand where men could wear head to toe silhouettes. Gucci under Tom Ford was very strong in menswear but it had a fashion approach that I don’t think a lot of men followed from to seasons to seasons (except for die-hard fans).

‘And in a way, it also worked with Balenciaga by Nicolas when they launched accessories because the idea of capsules was very similar to what Helmut did with his brand.

Balenciaga and Dior Homme were the brands that defined a certain idea of fashion for the 00’s. Tom Ford wasn’t there and the Prada look was very influential but didn’t defined a silhouette or a mood and so those disciples of Helmut Lang in a way became the voices. And men and women could wear those brands from Head to Toe without looking like label W***.

Which is ironic because today wearing Balenciaga and Dior Homme head to toe is the definition of a fashion victim.

 

[Kennnnn]

I remember wearing a lot of Helmut Lang (shoes too) in the late 90s. The other designers that I recall catered to his customer were Ann Demeulemeester, Raf Simons, Carol Christian Poell, Prada men's, and for sure Martin Margiela. I remember when Hedi Slimane started to be talked about - probably in 2000 or 2001, when he was at YSL. I think he helped to usher in more formality in menswear, in part by modernising tailoring (which I think Raf helped start in 1997/1998). And that's probably partly why Helmut Lang's influence started to decline. And then Hedi became a really big deal when he moved to Dior. I remember my first big Dior purchase, a very fitted blazer in black grain de poudre. It was cut very high at the shoulder and I ripped the underarm seams from partying too hard one night. I brought it to my tailor (off Grand Street in Soho) and he refused to fix it - he said he didn't have the technical skill to work on the jacket because it was so well constructed. I wonder if such quality exists in RTW mens clothing anymore.

 

[LadyJunon]

I remember my first big Dior purchase, a very fitted blazer in black grain de poudre. It was cut very high at the shoulder and I ripped the underarm seams from partying too hard one night. I brought it to my tailor (off Grand Street in Soho) and he refused to fix it - he said he didn't have the technical skill to work on the jacket because it was so well constructed. I wonder if such quality exists in RTW mens clothing anymore.

I really hope you kept that jacket regardless.