Phoebe Philo - Designer

[rowjellies]

What is she going to release next? Phoebe Philo Phantom Luggage Totes?

 

[Lola701]

From her shop-in-shop at Bergdorf's to this space on Lafayette, I’m surprised by how uninspiring and unexciting the physical retail aspect of her brand is—it feels like an afterthought. I wonder if they’ll put in more effort once she opens a stand-alone shop.
She should take a look at The Row and Toteme, with beautifully designed stores and curated interiors.

I don’t think Phoebe look at people who based their brands’s aesthetic around her work as inspiration.
And I don’t think she sees those brands as her competition. Clearly her moves doesn’t suggest it.

It looks like an Old Celine store. I can’t even be mad at her for replicating what she did at Celine at her own brand.

She is building the foundation of her house with her classics. And again I don’t mind it because it’s her own house.
A sense of familiarity is essential.

 

[style_expert]

Pictures of her latest collection ("C") are up on her site and I think it's her best (for her own label) so far.
Also the pictures are finally a bit brighter, which makes everything look even more desirable.

I heard since she expanded to a more traditional wholesale model too, her brand is selling really well at the multi brand stores.

 

[Creative]

She's now expanding her wholesale network to 37 retailers worldwide...so slowly but surely she's actually entirely moving away from DTC only.
I suppose she has strict rules for the multibrand stores when it comes to not applying markdowns etcetera as more brands do.

In Europe it’s super illegal to do so though. If you sell a product to a wholesaler you can “recommend” them not to do markdown, but they are 100% free to do so… you can get a fine up to 10% of the total business if there’s a minimum sign that you tried to convince them not to do it, and the auditors are super picky! Also if you cancel them for next season after the markdowns is super tricky… but I guess good partners would follow what she suggests.

Anyways, it makes sense that she’s expanding through wholesale. But I have the same feeling Thefrenchy has… I feel that she didn’t do it right.

I would’ve expected a tiny evolution at least. There are some things that are variations of her Céline… which is normal but I don’t know. It feels very dry and uninteresting and a little bit passé. I adore her though, she’s probably one of the very best designers of our generation and has nothing else to prove, but still her own brand kinda disappointed me.

 

[Creative]

She launched a "new" purse, which is basically a version of the Céline trio...she is copying herself! So soon run out of ideas or what??



phoebephilo.com/

I was commenting that with a friend… maybe it’s smart to redo her bestsellers you also have the silk white dress with lace in the hem.

Anyway, you all had a very interesting conversation here… loved everybody’s insights and I feel everyone is right in a way.

 

[Thefrenchy]

Isn't that PP store at GL right next to The Row's?

 

[style_expert]

In Europe it’s super illegal to do so though. If you sell a product to a wholesaler you can “recommend” them not to do markdown, but they are 100% free to do so… you can get a fine up to 10% of the total business if there’s a minimum sign that you tried to convince them not to do it, and the auditors are super picky! Also if you cancel them for next season after the markdowns is super tricky… but I guess good partners would follow what she suggests.

It may be illegal, but some brands have subtle ways of signaling to retailers that they shouldn’t mark down their products. At the same time, retailers have found ways to offer discounts without the brands finding out. In the worst-case scenario, a retailer could jeopardize its relationship with a brand and lose the ability to purchase from them altogether.

For Phoebe, however, this may be less of a concern, since she’s kept her e-commerce business exclusively on her own site so far. Multi-brand retailers aren't able to offer her pieces through their own online channels. I think that's a clever move on her end.

Ultimately, sites like Net-a-Porter and Matches (R.I.P.) played a major role in the so-called markdown “wars” at one point—much to the frustration of many brands.

 

[Lola701]

In Europe it’s super illegal to do so though. If you sell a product to a wholesaler you can “recommend” them not to do markdown, but they are 100% free to do so… you can get a fine up to 10% of the total business if there’s a minimum sign that you tried to convince them not to do it, and the auditors are super picky! Also if you cancel them for next season after the markdowns is super tricky… but I guess good partners would follow what she suggests.

That’s why the shop-in-shop option was a clever idea for GL. She gets control over those kind of things. And she has a global deal with DSM so I’m sure those issues are covered.

I think that for year 2, it’s not bad.

As much as I want her to have a full retail space. I think she should take her time. I mean Alaia only had 1 store in the world for years. I just hope that when she decides to open a store, it will be in Paris.

I also hope that we won’t wait until year 5 of activity to get a show.

 

[PDFSD]

I was commenting that with a friend… maybe it’s smart to redo her bestsellers you also have the silk white dress with lace in the hem.

Anyway, you all had a very interesting conversation here… loved everybody’s insights and I feel everyone is right in a way.

also isn't the point of having a style to revisit ideas of the past !!!

the trio bag concept she made popular why not do new versions ...its like forbidding Hermes to do a birkin that is a version of a HAC that a Kelly bag also borrow same closure etc etc versacge not using chain mail or prada not doing a pleated skirt ever again lol

 

[0729866]

I echo some sentiments that I was maybe a tad bit underwhelmed by some of the moves the brand has been making.

But when I start to look at some of the pieces, styling, overall image, and who is wearing it publicly, she is still very much the blueprint and ahead of the pack. While many have copied her and this look is largely what has been in for several seasons, none of that is cool. There's something off about her cuts, proportions, and even details that still interests me because they feel more rooted in something distinctly British — some mod here and there, '80s rare groove, rave culture, new romantics, etc. It's very hard to articulate where that happens but it's more of a sensibility and an attitude that comes through in her work that feels like piece or idea is connected to something bigger or interesting or cool. Even if you go and look at her work at Chloe, which had a different aesthetic, sure — much of this attitude is still there.

Moreover, I like that she's not afraid to make garments that are sexy, despite being thought of as a minimalist who is leading the charge of clinical product offerings. Helmut Lang comes to mind as another designer who was thought of as a minimalist but could still cut something that had a sexual charge to it. I think for both of these designers it always comes back to their interest in the body, how the body moves, where something will fall after it's been worn for the whole day, etc. I understand the idea that she is making clothes for woman, not the male gaze, but don't woman want to feel sexy too? Can there be sexy offerings that also can exist in a wardrobe of other offerings that are more modest and covered up? According to the PP-like brands today, nope.

Even if many of these PP-like brands today can replicate her work to a t, they feel devoid of a lot of the soul her clothes have and that becomes sharply apparent when you track the very moment a lot of these designers and brands began to push out PP-like products.

Anyway, rant done. If she decides to not do shows, fine. However, I would love some different type of presentation? A film, maybe something with music? Not sure what exactly it is but I do miss some of her world building.

 

[Norden]

I echo some sentiments that I was maybe a tad bit underwhelmed by some of the moves the brand has been making.

But when I start to look at some of the pieces, styling, overall image, and who is wearing it publicly, she is still very much the blueprint and ahead of the pack. While many have copied her and this look is largely what has been in for several seasons, none of that is cool. There's something off about her cuts, proportions, and even details that still interests me because they feel more rooted in something distinctly British — some mod here and there, '80s rare groove, rave culture, new romantics, etc. It's very hard to articulate where that happens but it's more of a sensibility and an attitude that comes through in her work that feels like piece or idea is connected to something bigger or interesting or cool. Even if you go and look at her work at Chloe, which had a different aesthetic, sure — much of this attitude is still there.

Moreover, I like that she's not afraid to make garments that are sexy, despite being thought of as a minimalist who is leading the charge of clinical product offerings. Helmut Lang comes to mind as another designer who was thought of as a minimalist but could still cut something that had a sexual charge to it. I think for both of these designers it always comes back to their interest in the body, how the body moves, where something will fall after it's been worn for the whole day, etc. I understand the idea that she is making clothes for woman, not the male gaze, but don't woman want to feel sexy too? Can there be sexy offerings that also can exist in a wardrobe of other offerings that are more modest and covered up? According to the PP-like brands today, nope.

Even if many of these PP-like brands today can replicate her work to a t, they feel devoid of a lot of the soul her clothes have and that becomes sharply apparent when you track the very moment a lot of these designers and brands began to push out PP-like products.

Anyway, rant done. If she decides to not do shows, fine. However, I would love some different type of presentation? A film, maybe something with music? Not sure what exactly it is but I do miss some of her world building.

yeah this really kind of sums up the allure she has over her many copy cats, theres sex to her work, it feels hornier in a very specific almost seventies way. Lang had something similar indeed, and he also put these things that felt off in there which added to the overal feeling of danger and sex. remember those perforated mens briefs in leather, when I saw phoebes studded gold hotpants I was reminded of that.

 

[LadyJunon]

The allure of Philo (Chloe, Celine and her eponymous labels) is that she does "serious clothes done unseriously". They're work clothes, but they're also raw, sexy and witty, something that lots of her copyists lack. She's like Miuccia in a way, only with a more grounded approach to design.

 

[KilltheLook]

I also like her approach of "Here are my pieces, no explanation needed" more than Miucia's "This collection is inspired by the art of undressing in an Italian's villa back in the 60s"

 

[0729866]

She's functioning more like Alaïa, though the Miuccia comparison makes sense. If anything, and I think this applies to any of the designers we've mentioned, the press has applied an idea to them that I don't think any of them really care about. I think they all enjoy clothes and do see it as product and because of that they have fun with what they make.

And, yes, I too loved the studded gold hot pants. More of that please!

 

[PDFSD]

any ways the band sales are picking up as i mentioned in other tread if not mistaken , during paris fashion week buyers where mentioning clients are discovering the products in real and are loving the quality and design its above the row was the comments even.

so this year its seems to be her moment as she persisted its catching on, i know the pop up in milan where a flop and another one but others especially in paris are doing well since then and other countries is picking up there is even a limit on buying for this last sales campaign for stores.

 

[proseccotabis]

She launched a "new" purse, which is basically a version of the Céline trio...she is copying herself! So soon run out of ideas or what??

phoebephilo.com/

I swear I’ve seen this very purse in numerous variations in Jil sander throughout the Meier tenure
Same leather and same color even

 

[proseccotabis]

any ways the band sales are picking up as i mentioned in other tread if not mistaken , during paris fashion week buyers where mentioning clients are discovering the products in real and are loving the quality and design its above the row was the comments even.

so this year its seems to be her moment as she persisted its catching on, i know the pop up in milan where a flop and another one but others especially in paris are doing well since then and other countries is picking up there is even a limit on buying for this last sales campaign for stores.

Very interesting info! Thanks for sharing. I can’t help but feel that perhaps she would benefit with more pr pushes nowadays or is she not focused on reaching clientele outside of celine girlies clique ?
This is the second time I hear that apparently the quality is even better than the row and that’s a pleasant surprise for me

 

[PDFSD]

Very interesting info! Thanks for sharing. I can’t help but feel that perhaps she would benefit with more pr pushes nowadays or is she not focused on reaching clientele outside of celine girlies clique ?
This is the second time I hear that apparently the quality is even better than the row and that’s a pleasant surprise for me

leather goods are way better than the row the exposed construction with bonding and thicknesses of leather and type of leathers used and hard wear etc

at celine she was already doing suits via Caruso the italian suit makes specialist .....like her hedi is also very particular with who produces what for the brands they work for etc when it comes to rtw specialty even if hedi is weaker in leather goods than phoebe when it comes to manufacturing and quality control decision making.

 

[proseccotabis]

leather goods are way better than the row the exposed construction with bonding and thicknesses of leather and type of leathers used and hard wear etc

at celine she was already doing suits via Caruso the italian suit makes specialist .....like her hedi is also very particular with who produces what for the brands they work for etc when it comes to rtw specialty even if hedi is weaker in leather goods than phoebe when it comes to manufacturing and quality control decision making.

I can see that happening and now I’m interested to see her lg in reality now that you have done the comparison in detail .
The row use great leather too in my opinion but I am only familiar with the Margaux though

 

[jeanclaude]

also isn't the point of having a style to revisit ideas of the past !!!

the trio bag concept she made popular why not do new versions ...its like forbidding Hermes to do a birkin that is a version of a HAC that a Kelly bag also borrow same closure etc etc versacge not using chain mail or prada not doing a pleated skirt ever again lol

I think if she is launching her brand, she should bring new ideas. Otherwise, it is going to feel old Céline again (and the problem is that there are hundreds of brands out there which are still replicating it..and making it look burned as hell).

She could make new things while still having her style. One thing does not detract from the other.