Saint Laurent - The All-Things Saint Laurent Thread

[jeanclaude]

I miss the "Yves" in that logo...it feels like a fake YSL.

 

[alwaysademo]

SAINT LAURENT - ZOË by PURIENNE​

Saint Laurent Rive Droite, through SL Editions, is pleased to present a new book, featuring Zoë Kravitz photographed by Henrik Purienne.Titled ZOË, the book reflects the longstanding relationship between the actress and Saint Laurent creativedirector Anthony Vaccarello. In real life, as in her work, Kravitz personifies the confident, contemporarysensuality that is the essence of the Saint Laurent woman. The pair’s respectful vision is distilled in ZOË.On over 100 pages, the shots captured by Purienne’s lens in color and black-and-white show Kravitz'scharacter —independent, playful, and in clear command of her allure— in a variety of situations unfolding fromthe beach to the city. A small cast of supporting players —including actor Jeremy Allen White— adds intrigueto the simultaneously abstract and revealing story.With the publication’s release, Saint Laurent continues to explore creative collaborations that advancethe cinematic scope of Vaccarello’s direction for the house. ZOË will be available at Saint Laurent Babylone, Paris, and at Saint Laurent Rive Droite in Los Angeles as well as on YSL.COM. To markthe occasion, images from the book will be exhibited concurrently at both locations.

 

[kasper!]

Do you guys think eventually L'Oreal will sell YSL Beauty to Kering back?

 

[Vikingtop]

I do not think in the near future. All existing information says that the YSL licence is a very long term licence.

So depending on the success of kering beauty they might take the licence back sooner or later.... or they wait until it expires the regular way.

At the moment kering beauty focuses on the other brands. They bought creed, so there is ground for knowledge in perfumery... but for YSL they need expertise also in skincare and decorative cosmetics i think. This will take time.

Kering beauty is a rather young and new section. They need to build up knowhow and production capabilities to take over the license.

I think they wait until all this is possible.

Given the actual state of kering they will not risk a good business (royalties) with new and so big challenges.

 

[Lola701]

Do you guys think eventually L'Oreal will sell YSL Beauty to Kering back?

For me, they have more chances to get Gucci back from Coty than YSL back from L’Oreal.

L’Oreal paid 1 billion for the license back in the day. So I suspect it to be a very very long term thing.

And in a way, I don’t even think it’s a priority at this point. They needs to get Gucci back first.
And as they want to acquire Valentino, I think with the creation of Kering Beauty, it will be clever to not renew the licensing agreement with L’Oreal and then buy the fully integrated Valentino brand.

If they finally buy Armani, however, then I think Kering will be able to negotiate.

Kering is not ln a position of power nowadays regarding that situation anyway.

 

[yslforever]

Do you guys think eventually L'Oreal will sell YSL Beauty to Kering back?

Nope, they are very content with YSL Beauty, every time Kering ask, L'Oréal raises the price by one billion, plus Meyer and Bellettini aren't on speaking terms.

 

[Lola701]

Nope, they are very content with YSL Beauty, every time Kering ask, L'Oréal raises the price by one billion, plus Meyer and Bellettini aren't on speaking terms.

Pinault was stupid enough to sell it and I never understood why because at the time, Gucci Group was just an entity in PPR. His lost.
So you think they will never manage to get it back? Even if Saint Laurent exceed the 5 billions?

I have to say that L’Oreal, IMO, killed YSL parfums.

 

[LadyJunon]

Kering might get YSL Beauty back, but I don't it will happen this decade. Kering has bigger priorities right now:
- getting Gucci back on track (preferably without Sabato)
- pushing Gucci Beauty/Perfumes
- growing YSL and BV to become a larger factor in Kering's performance
- completing the acquisition of Valentino
- start preparing Balenciaga for an eventual rebrand
- consider developing fragrances for BV and Balenciaga

L'Oreal definitely killed YSL Beauty. The products themselves look quite appealing, but the marketing is so trashy. Part of me wants Pinault to suck it up and give L'Oreal what they want.

That said L'Oreal also owns Mugler and manages Armani Beauty so if they manage to grow Mugler and acquire Armani, they should be more willing to give Kering a discount. Of course, Kering could actually collapse, allowing them to acquire YSL too.

 

[Lola701]

Kering might get YSL Beauty back, but I don't it will happen this decade. Kering has bigger priorities right now:
- getting Gucci back on track (preferably without Sabato)
- pushing Gucci Beauty/Perfumes
- growing YSL and BV to become a larger factor in Kering's performance
- completing the acquisition of Valentino
- start preparing Balenciaga for an eventual rebrand
- consider developing fragrances for BV and Balenciaga

L'Oreal definitely killed YSL Beauty. The products themselves look quite appealing, but the marketing is so trashy. Part of me wants Pinault to suck it up and give L'Oreal what they want.

That said L'Oreal also owns Mugler and manages Armani Beauty so if they manage to grow Mugler and acquire Armani, they should be more willing to give Kering a discount. Of course, Kering could actually collapse, allowing them to acquire YSL too.

I’ve always had the feeling that acquiring Mugler and investing in it was them testing the water for a possible take over of Armani. They are essentially trying to replicate the success of Paco Rabanne with Mugler.

From the moment they released ELLE, I knew that YSL by L’Oreal would be a mess. I think fragrances like Y, Myself are hurting the brand. They have had so many corpses along the way like Parisienne, they have never elevated the classics of the brand as real untouchable classics.
I still use Cinema as fragrance for myself but I think that in terms of vision, creative direction and products, Yves Saint Laurent is really pitiful.

And contrary to what people may imagine, Big beauty giant groups aren’t really doing the best thing for the fragrances collections of their brands. Estée Lauder has slowly destroyed Tom Ford beauty over the last 5 years, Puig and JPG looks like it’s operated by the marketing department and the same can be said about Coty and what they did to Gucci.

When it comes to fashion brands having beauty lines, only Chanel, Hermes, Loewe & Celine seems to totally nail it for me.

I hope Kering will really do the relaunch of Bottega Veneta parfums right, with a real identity and good marketing.

The line under Tomas Maier was good btw.

 

[kasper!]

I always thought YSL should be the primary brand in Kering group...like Dior for LVMH.

 

[LadyJunon]

I’ve always had the feeling that acquiring Mugler and investing in it was them testing the water for a possible take over of Armani. They are essentially trying to replicate the success of Paco Rabanne with Mugler.

Pulling a Rabanne with Mugler is going to be hard with its currrent form. Cadwaller's Mugler is very dependant on creating "iconic moments" without a proper collection range behind it. They have these "Spiral Curve" bags that look cool, but they have barely promote them.

From the moment they released ELLE, I knew that YSL by L’Oreal would be a mess. I think fragrances like Y, Myself are hurting the brand. They have had so many corpses along the way like Parisienne, they have never elevated the classics of the brand as real untouchable classics.
I still use Cinema as fragrance for myself but I think that in terms of vision, creative direction and products, Yves Saint Laurent is really pitiful.

The vision for L'Oreal's YSL is very duty-free outlet adjacent. To add to that, the beauty division is quite parasitic. They literally released a perfume named "37 Rue De Bellechasse" and they regularly hire SebastiAn to do soundtracks for their ads. Funny enough, the beauty division follows the fashion division and Vaccarello on most social media, while neither parties follow them back.

And contrary to what people may imagine, Big beauty giant groups aren’t really doing the best thing for the fragrances collections of their brands. Estée Lauder has slowly destroyed Tom Ford beauty over the last 5 years, Puig and JPG looks like it’s operated by the marketing department and the same can be said about Coty and what they did to Gucci.

When it comes to fashion brands having beauty lines, only Chanel, Hermes, Loewe & Celine seems to totally nail it for me.

I hope Kering will really do the relaunch of Bottega Veneta parfums right, with a real identity and good marketing.

The line under Tomas Maier was good btw.

I understand why. Luxury beauty/fragrance lines are filled with comparatively low-price, high-volume products, so companies have to really attentive to distribution and marketing to balance the cash-cow aspect and the luxury aura. So many of these smaller corporate brands have these corpses from the 00s, before they went through heavy restructuring in the 10s.

Puig is particualr, because their brand are a mixed bag. The revival of Rabanne is a success story with the brand reach 1b in revenue and Carolina Herrera is on its way there. Meanwhile, Nina Ricci and Gaultier are suffering from lack of stability or identity with the changing designers. Dries Van Noten is doing very well (their fastest growing brand), but is one bad decision away from joining Gaultier and Ricci.

I've noticed that the most successful recently launched perfume expansions have been those who did a range of "High Perfume" fragrances, instead of depending on the success of one hit perfume. Celine, Loewe and Dries Van Noten are good examples of that. Fendi has gone in this direction too and I think BV could do something similar.

 

[yslforever]

I always thought YSL should be the primary brand in Kering group...like Dior for LVMH.

Anthony should work more then, and they will need another CD for menswear, and they will need couture, at least for exposure and brand elevation, but alas, Anthony just can't, he is definitely not fitted for couture,
Madison Cox knows it and won't allow a YSL return to couture (the couture belongs to him) with Anthony or even with Kering, he's actually much closer to Meyer, and they both have a lot of patience (i.e. waiting for a collapse of Kering and L'Oréal buying YSL).
Historically it has very often been the perfumes companies buying the fashion houses when they struggled.

 

[NoInvite]

There is so much potential in the brand, one of the best archive to pull from. One of the greatest logo in the world (kudos Cassandre). Going up doing couture they can, or going down and making more appealing pieces they can too. I wonder which way the will go, I feel like they have been at the same place for a few years now. The brand has every element to become as big as Gucci.

 

[IsabelMarantBoy]

Has there been any talk or threads related to the costumes Anthony did for the upcoming horror movie The Shrouds by David Cronenberg? The movie looks amazing and it's probably farfetched that this would happen, but I love the idea of basing an upcoming fashion collection on the idea of death and burial shrouds <3

 

[PDFSD]

There is so much potential in the brand, one of the best archive to pull from. One of the greatest logo in the world (kudos Cassandre). Going up doing couture they can, or going down and making more appealing pieces they can too. I wonder which way the will go, I feel like they have been at the same place for a few years now. The brand has every element to become as big as Gucci.

Totally it should be up there next to Chanel and Dior in size and relevance, with clear codes protected and refreshed,with its own ateliers and expertise departments that are cultivated & grown as the company gets bigger and has more resources to perfect expertise.( much like balenciaga should also be up there as a HC house )

Instead they treat the brand like its contemporary segment brand with luxury prices,for easy pay day.
to be fair PB and Yves did a lot of damage themselves to the house with all the licenses etc so , what can we say the gays love to have a luxury live...who can blame them lol

 

[LadyJunon]

There is so much potential in the brand, one of the best archive to pull from. One of the greatest logo in the world (kudos Cassandre). Going up doing couture they can, or going down and making more appealing pieces they can too. I wonder which way the will go, I feel like they have been at the same place for a few years now. The brand has every element to become as big as Gucci.

Totally it should be up there next to Chanel and Dior in size and relevance, with clear codes protected and refreshed,with its own ateliers and expertise departments that are cultivated & grown as the company gets bigger and has more resources to perfect expertise.( much like balenciaga should also be up there as a HC house )

Instead they treat the brand like its contemporary segment brand with luxury prices,for easy pay day.
to be fair PB and Yves did a lot of damage themselves to the house with all the licenses etc so , what can we say the gays love to have a luxury live...who can blame them lol

YSL is very unique in terms of how expansive and diverse the brand's history and archive is. The fact that both Tom and Hedi were on brand says a lot. On top of that, YSL played a huge role in forming post-war French culture. Chanel and Dior, despite their larger size, can't really claim that. The entity was definitely damaged by overlicensing in the 70s and 80s, followed by fragmentation in the 90s and 00s and a radical rebrand in the 10s. Of course, this is the consequences of short-term thinking and the clashing of egos.

Personally, I do think that fixing Gucci is a bigger priority, but they should make the transition into an institutional couture house like Chanel and Dior.

They already have the cultural side with YSL Rive Droite and YSL Productions and they seem to be gradually restoring (a version of) the Cassandre graphics, which is a start. Once Gucci is sorted out, they can work on getting the beauty division back from L'Oreal. From there, they trim off the extra fat, restore the historical perfumes and add a high fragrance range. They should also consider establishing an atelier and a Demi-Couture line that's stocked in the VIP floors of their larger flagship stores. It will elevate the brand with the added benefit of potentially getting them on the foundation's good side.

As I'm typing this, I'm think that they should do the same for BV with an "High Leather" division to as a brand appropriate answer to Couture. Gucci can be more mass appeal like Louis Vuitton.

 

[Kimihiro]

The nice thing with Saint Laurent is that they could have more accessible pieces because of the Rive Gauche heritage, while still being able to compete on the top with Dior and Chanel. That’s the tension that should always be present with the brand.

For a while there’s been an imbalance with the brand. Hedi went hard with the RTW aspect, the transgressive part of YSL. Anthony attempts for the haute and smoky image while forgetting how eclectic the brand was. I feel like they both forgot how colorful Saint Laurent was.

One day Saint Laurent should be pieced back together. Hopefully treated more like an institution that it is than a mere luxury fashion maison. That logo alone should be on par with Chanel. They would need separate CD’s for womenswear and couture, and menswear. They have the legitimacy to all those. They have to work on establishing heritage bag pieces. They need a restructured beauty department. Put a stop to the downward spiral of the perfumes. Mount exhibitions with complete synergy from the maison and the foundation.

That might make YSL a much bigger brand than today.

 

[Norden]

I think what Hedi tried to do was exactly that with his rebranding and strategy. In a way he made things clear with the rtw and saint laurent branding. How I understood it is that he wanted the classic ysl brand for couture. Knowing hedi there was quite a bit of world building and strategy.

I think the current branding is so bad, taking the Yves away from the original Cassandra type creates a disbalance. People at kering seem so lost.

 

[louis]

I think what Hedi tried to do was exactly that with his rebranding and strategy. In a way he made things clear with the rtw and saint laurent branding. How I understood it is that he wanted the classic ysl brand for couture. Knowing hedi there was quite a bit of world building and strategy.

I think the current branding is so bad, taking the Yves away from the original Cassandra type creates a disbalance. People at kering seem so lost.

Hedi just wanted the perfumes back from L’Oreal: his idea of SAINT LAURENT was beautiful and if he stayed longer he would have reached the level of Dior.

 

[Lola701]

KERING let YSL beauté go only in 2008. It’s not that long ago actually. I have to say that the team Tom Ford/Thomas Lenthal/Linda Cantello did a fantastic job. And then, Linda Cantello did also a fairly decent job for Armani Prive.

The irony was that the Meyers were attending YSL shows under Hedi even though he threw that tantrum on Twitter regarding his lack of involvement in the beauty department.