Terry Richardson banned from working with Conde Nast

[Benn98]

Blimey, the NY Times are taking no prisoners! It sounds like it'll be new revelations. I'm assuming Bruce Weber's name will form part of this.

 

[fashionista-ta]

Looking forward to this

 

[Littleathquakes]

Blimey, the NY Times are taking no prisoners! It sounds like it'll be new revelations. I'm assuming Bruce Weber's name will form part of this.

so far it's Glenn Thrush, of SNL Sean Spicer parody fame.

 

[ThatDudeOverTher]

I don't think any major or "important" fashion photographers will be named in this if Vanessa Friedman is involved. She's way too close to too many of those people in the industry to expose them. I may be wrong, but I'm skeptical.

 

[cienne]

There are new allegations against Terry by two women, Caron Bernstein and Lindsay Jones.

Model recounts alleged photoshoot sex assault nightmare with Terry Richardson


New Allegation: Photographer Terry Richardson Sexually Assaulted Designer In His Studio Doorway

 

[fashionista-ta]

The Lindsay Jones account is utterly disgusting. The way women are socialized puts us all at risk for this type of abuse. I don't think I can read the other one until at least after I've had my coffee

 

[fritmayo]

. It's a sick and twisted industry and everyone seem to just think of it as "playing the game." Let's not forget that one agency even pimps their models out as escorts... allegedly. These streets are brutal, kids![/QUOTE]

But what u all propose? I mean that s a business where Sex has always been and will always be a part of the business .
I mean seriously, can you realise back in the days what was like the average night of a guy like John casablancas? A good looking guy loving young models and owning a top model agency
His partner in Elite Gerald Marie was quiet famous for his needs of young girls too.
Still right now the big boss of woman Milan Always share with appartement with young models, are people will really be surprised if he doesn’t not only play cards with them to spend the evening ?​

 

[eizhowa]

But what u all propose? I mean that s a business where Sex has always been and will always be a part of the business .
I mean seriously, can you realise back in the days what was like the average night of a guy like John casablancas? A good looking guy loving young models and owning a top model agency
His partner in Elite Gerald Marie was quiet famous for his needs of young girls too.
Still right now the big boss of woman Milan Always share with appartement with young models, are people will really be surprised if he doesn’t not only play cards with them to spend the evening ?

Umm... what? Why does sex(ual harrassement) need to be a part of the business? Perhaps you want to clearify your point, because surely you are not suggesting we should stop fighting sexual harassment? The implications of arguments like that are very dramatic.

 

[fritmayo]

Umm... what? Why does sex(ual harrassement) need to be a part of the business? Perhaps you want to clearify your point, because surely you are not suggesting we should stop fighting sexual harassment? The implications of arguments like that are very dramatic.

Did I say it needs to be like that? No. I just it is like that since modeling exist. A business wich is basically adult males dealing teenage girls...what can u expect from that cocktail?



My point it is the expression sexual harassment is just overused right now.
Sadly it makes weaker the position of victim of real harassment as now anything minor is considered as damageable as what they ve been victim of .

As I wrote , probably at the moment I m writing this, there is in Milan an appartement belonging to a major agency owner which is full of teenage girls, with all things to drink and more ...
Whatever people think, girls there perfectly know where they are, with who they are , and what he hopes of them.
because that agency has maybe right 5O girls in town, and in these 50 girls the ones who have expressed the wish not to be there are simply not there . It is as easy as that.

That s the business as it is, if you don’t like it, just don’t get into it.

Still I dont worry, a few more month of mess and business will be back as usuall, and in Hollywood and in modeling...

 

[eizhowa]

Did I say it needs to be like that? No. I just it is like that since modeling exist. A business wich is basically adult males dealing teenage girls...what can u expect from that cocktail?

I would expect them to abide by the law, and be decent human beings.

My point it is the expression sexual harassment is just overused right now.
Sadly it makes weaker the position of victim of real harassment as now anything minor is considered as damageable as what they ve been victim of.

Is it overused? Unless people are lying (which is another matter entirely), I have not heard accounts of incidents that does not qualify as sexual harassment. Steping forward as a victim is incredibly difficult, and not something people usually do unless they believe it is important that people know the truth. Perhaps you could give me some real life examples of what you are talking about?

As I wrote , probably at the moment I m writing this, there is in Milan an appartement belonging to a major agency owner which is full of teenage girls, with all things to drink and more ...
Whatever people think, girls there perfectly know where they are, with who they are , and what he hopes of them.
because that agency has maybe right 5O girls in town, and in these 50 girls the ones who have expressed the wish not to be there are simply not there . It is as easy as that.

I find this attitude disgusting, honestly. I have no words. It is like telling women who don't want to be sexually harassed in the workplace or raped on the way home from a party to become stay at home moms and to not go to parties. It is victim blaming.

That s the business as it is, if you don’t like it, just don’t get into it.

Or perhaps we could try to change it into something better? Or is the mere idea of change repulsive to you in some way?

Still I dont worry, a few more month of mess and business will be back as usuall, and in Hollywood and in modeling...

How would that not make me worry?

 

[fashionista-ta]

fritmayo, the point is this: the state of affairs as it stands is unacceptable. You appear to be OK with it all; we are not.

Fashion really can't exist without models. You appear to be stating that the very concept of young female models is an inescapable recipe for disaster. And therefore that fashion is inextricably linked to abusing young women. I don't accept that in the very least. Just because many men in the industry behave unprofessionally (to say the least!!) doesn't mean men in the industry can't behave professionally. No doubt some do. Just because these young women are largely unprotected today doesn't mean they can't be properly protected.

Mainstream models are not sex workers. There's a whole 'profession' (or several related ones) for people who want to do that. (Although I question whether anyone makes a clear-eyed choice ... the history of abuse among sex workers seems to be something like 100%.)

Women who are models, actors, assistants, etc. should not be mistaken for sex workers by anyone at anytime.

Many industries have long since figured out how to prevent the worst types of sexual harrassment. It's well past time this industry joined them.

 

[Benn98]

I think he's trying to highlight the ones who willingly go along with abuse of power to advance their careers. Such women do exist, and maybe that's something which should be addressed among women themselves. Of course they also inadvertently trivialise the ones coerced or forced into it. Same could happen with sex workers too.

But whichever way you look at it, Fashionistata is right. Models are not sex workers. The onus should be on men to behave appropriately. To not, when you're knowingly in a position of power, proposition these girls. That's what it starts with, anyway.

 

[fritmayo]

I would expect them to abide by the law, and be decent human beings.

What I point is actually that a lot of "stories" are of different levels and that to put everything under the stickers "sexual harrassement" has no sense and weaken the most serious cases.
let's be clear, the story about Richardson posted before are NOT sexual harassment, IT IS r*pe legally speaking.
Such kind of thing is of court level and must be dealt a it deserves.

But...are you really sure that all cases which appears are of law level? I dont think so.


Do you also think it is just "realistic" to expect that rules and behavior would be the same in modeling, where there is young girls, old guys, champagne, parties and more than what it can be in a post office or in an insurance company?
I dont think so.

You know, historically, female modeling management started to be managed by women (like Ellen Ford) and by...gays.
But...in the end of 60's arrived the guys, and you know what, all guys who came into the business (Casablancas etc) they were rich before, they never came in modeling to do money, so you think they came for what ?
And you know, since that..it never changed. Or in front, or in money backing the reality it is that 80% of modeling business is money backed by guys there because there are plenty of girls around.

So good luck to make respect "real world" rules. Modeling is not really real world; but as I said at the beginning real abuse punishable by law are of course not acceptable.

 

[eizhowa]

^Still failing to give any actual examples of people claiming to be sexual harassed that were in fact not, I notice. I am guessing it is because you don't know of any. The legal thresshold for sexual harassment is low. The reason most people get away with it is due to lack of evidence, not because something is not considered sexual harassment. I think you have completely misunderstood this.

And competent judge won't give r*pists lower sentences just because he later that day has a sexual harassment case. The two offences are just as illegal (even though the punishment varies, which is something entirely different).

Your notion that nothing could possibly change is ludicrous. You seem to think history is some argument for how things must be, which is a very narrow minded perspective. Have you not noticed that the world has changed throughout time?

 

[tigerrouge]

Acceptance of the reality of a situation does form an important part of the process of change. But being 'realistic' means being as open as possible to all the information available. Thinking about everything that's being said and letting it sink in. Not immediately dismissing it or categorizing it in disposable boxes... 'good victim'... 'bad victim'... 'deserved it'.

We all naturally jump to judgements. It's how the mind works. But the next step should be, "why do I think like that?"

Because in simple terms: We can choose to be part of the problem... or part of the solution.

 

[fritmayo]

^Still failing to give any actual examples of people claiming to be sexual harassed that were in fact not, I notice. I am guessing it is because you don't know of any. ed perspective. Have you not noticed that the world has changed throughout time?

i ca easily give you one which show it needs to take some distance with any claim.
Sara Sampaio in Lui magazine.

French Lui magazine exist for 30 years ans has always been a soft erotic magazine, +/- Playboy style.
in 30 years ALL Lui covers are naked and lets say inside magazine even more so...
Lui has started to book "sexy" fashion models on the last 2 years, all of them of course got shooted in the magazine style..Naked ans again more in erotic than fashion way. For example Edita Vilkeviciute did it 2 times.

Sara Sampaio books it, and few weeks after claim she was forced to get naked during the shooting.
Seriously, you book an erotic magazine which features naked girls on cover for 30 , who covered for 2 years plenty of top girls fully naked, and you are surprised they ask you to take your clothes off?

how credible is that?

Let's admit (very unlikely) the shoot deal was supposed to be with clothes; if there is disagreement or miss-understanding, sorry but..take your phone and call your agency! That happens quiet often that the agency must clarify what can be done or not during a shooting, no connection with nudity, but it happens often with haircut for example!

So except to make a claim "in the trend" that story was just nothing else, and it actually fade as quickly as it appeared.


So keep on seeing harassment everywhere, and what you succeed at is just to put in a more weak position the real victim.
because lets take weinstein as example if one day it arrives in court and there is 40 different "victims" claiming against him. if at the end the court say that 35 was fake...what impression to court it gives to the 5 real you think? not good for the 5 real victim you know...

 

[eizhowa]

^If the contract was that there were to be no nudity, that is what you should expect. Modern society would collapse if everyone started disregarding their contracts. This is pretty basic. Other peoples contracts with the magazine are irrelevant. You honor your contract. End off.

Also: publishing nudes without consent is considered sexual harassment, according to the law. Whether there was (oral) consent depends on the evidence, which we know little to nothing about. I have only seen one side of the story, and I have not seen her contract (and neither have you). Personal speculations about what the evidence may or may not suggest is hardly relevant.

You don't seem to grasp that evidence and the law are two entirely different things, which might explain why you seemingly are using such an odd definition of sexual harassment.

And btw the court does not determine whether something illegal actually happened. The court determines if something is probable enough based on the evidence to convict someone for something. All of those 40 women might be victims, regardless of the evidence.

It sounds to me like the law is fine, the judges are fine, but the general population might need educationg in the basics of our legal systems. It might prevent a lot of hatred and prejudice.

 

[fritmayo]

^If the contract was that there were to be no nudity, that is what you should expect. Modern society would collapse if everyone started disregarding their contracts. .

And you saw the contract?
So for 30 years it is naked only, but for Sara sampaio one in Thirty year they would make a cover with clothes on . Seriously?
And even so as I wrote, disagreement at shooting happens EVERY week, and what models do..they call their agent to clarify the situation.

You know why all this all fade in few month? because in court most cases will fail.

And as you say I think "modern society would collapse" fast if a court would recognize a victim if she has no element of proof....

 

[June]

I think in Sara Sampaio's case the "problem" for some is the definition of nudity. I don't know if it's an American thing (and maybe a definition that the modeling industry, which is in it's large US orientated, adapted) that it's not nudity as long as you don't see nipples or pubic hair?
Because that's what seemed to be Sara's nudity problem as I understood her claims, not showing much of her body. Of course she knew that she was wearing little to nothing but you can see in the pictures that she hid her nipples (or at least tried to) with her poses. And she was granted that the pictures where she failed to do so would not be used. But they were. She never was as naive as to think this would be a shooting in modest clothing. So no need to disrespect her for demanding compliance with a contract regarding how much of her body could be shown in the magazine.

 

[eizhowa]

And you saw the contract?

Did you see that I wrote "If"? Or that I specifically wrote that I had not seen it? No?

And as you say I think "modern society would collapse" fast if a court would recognize a victim if she has no element of proof....

That was not what I said, read my post again. I was talking about contract law, not procedural law.

I do support the innocence presumtion, but the fact that you are smiling at the fact that sexual crimes are difficult to prove is absolutely disgusting to me.