The Official Harry Potter Thread

[TianSoFine]

^^*shocked gasp* I wouldn't mind it on most people, but Narcissa Black Malfoy isn't like most people. It would be like Lucius Malfoy having roots, if anyone gets what a mean.

I'd like to add: as much a genius as JKR is, one of the things a lot of HP fans have called on is her lack of understanding for people. I can see this because her characters do sometimes lack realism and depth. Not in the sense that an obvious and deep analysis is required for every scene (because it definitely isn't), but in the sense that characters sometimes lack response to situations beyond cliches or primitive instincts. Most of the exceptions are the characters who are more common, but I suppose that can be expected.

Snape is certainly one of JKR's more complex characters, but there still isn't enough there for me to like him on that basis alone. He had an obsessive love for Lily, screwed up, and was willing to do anything for her. Slightly similar to Heathcliff, but less manipulative and more "love has no bounds".

I can totally understand why Snape would hate Harry (I think anyone would in his position), but I don't like how he acted on that hate when he definitely should have known better. Another thing I don't like is how he made no secret of supporting the anti-Muggle-born movement while his best friend was a Muggle-born. (end of Snape bashing)

 

[TianSoFine]

Sorry for double posting, but it's too late to edit. I can't believe I've just found it now, but Mugglenet did an article on foreshadowing of death in OotP (some of you have probably read it already). Here's a really interesting one about Sirius:

In St. Mungo’s, when they are going to visit Mr. Weasley- 'They climbed a flight of stairs and entered the "Creature-Induced Injuries" corridor, where the second door on the right bore the words 'DANGEROUS' DAI LLEWELLYN WARD: SERIOUS BITES.' If you put these words on a sign, they would read:

Creature-Induced Injuries
Dangerous
Dai Llewellyn Ward
Serious Bites

Take the first word of each of these and what do you get get? Creature Dangerous Dai Serious? No - Kreacher dangerous, Die Sirius...

link to the rest: http://www.mugglenet.com/books/deathclues5.shtml

 

[dajrekshn]

i dunno, i'm def in a minority, but i've always thought Snape's nastiness towards Harry was nothing more than a sarcasm with roots of anger/envy coming from the whole Lily/James situation with a lack of hope in Harry's ability to actually destroy Voldemort. everyone gets on the other side at one point of his/hers life - considering the era he grew up in - with his intelligence and talent for sorcery - it took only so much for him to get on the dark side so young and so much to actually get out of it in time. i really think that a person who gives up on his own life for the destruction of something as evil as this was, cannot be seen as evil in core. in the end, the greatest virtue for one (IMO) is to make peace with the imminence of death (as JK has also mentioned it few times) and to actually not make peace with it, but also willfully give it up in the service of good, shows how complex and big person Snape was.

dunno, always had a soft spot for him. :/

 

[Aqua Tofana]

Let's not forget how in the first books/movies he favourited Draco. That's already nothing to do with Lily, right?

 

[TianSoFine]

Off the top of my head, I can also think of Snape also taking points for Hermione's "cheek" and telling Neville to feed his potion to Trevor. Fighting for a good cause does not mean he's not a horrible person, which JKR herself pointed out. I will disagree with making peace with the imminence of death being the greatest virtue. There is also no evidence that he's made peace with it, rather than simply accepted it.

 

[dajrekshn]

Off the top of my head, I can also think of Snape also taking points for Hermione's "cheek" and telling Neville to feed his potion to Trevor. Fighting for a good cause does not mean he's not a horrible person, which JKR herself pointed out. I will disagree with making peace with the imminence of death being the greatest virtue. There is also no evidence that he's made peace with it, rather than simply accepted it.

well, he actually gave up on life, he willfully gave his life, he knew he had to die. he could've well get onto Voldemort's side just after Dumbledore's death, and maybe the whole thing would've gone the other way. nobody forced him to pick sides in the very end of it, but not only he went for the side of good in the end, he decided to go with the whole plan two years before knowing he won't be alive at the end.

either way, this is the "magic" in JK's books and i think this shows how much she invested in creating Snape's complexity - the fact each reader has its own view on most of the characters that can be different to an extreme. that shows how much she created apart from words written in the books.

 

[sobriquet87]

I'd like to add: as much a genius as JKR is, one of the things a lot of HP fans have called on is her lack of understanding for people. I can see this because her characters do sometimes lack realism and depth. Not in the sense that an obvious and deep analysis is required for every scene (because it definitely isn't), but in the sense that characters sometimes lack response to situations beyond cliches or primitive instincts. Most of the exceptions are the characters who are more common, but I suppose that can be expected.

Snape is certainly one of JKR's more complex characters, but there still isn't enough there for me to like him on that basis alone. He had an obsessive love for Lily, screwed up, and was willing to do anything for her. Slightly similar to Heathcliff, but less manipulative and more "love has no bounds".

On the contrary, I've always heard the complete opposite about JK Rowling's characters.
She's had a lot of experiences in her life that she has applied to the HP series and that is what makes her characters so "real." None of them are black and white.
There's always a gray area. None of their decisions are easy or "cliche."

For example, there are numerous times throughout this series in which a person that Harry loathes (Draco, Snape, even Voldemort)
finds themselves in a life or death situation, but instead of killing them or turning his back on them, Harry saves their life (Draco).
Or he goes to them and holds their hand while they're dying (Snape). Or gives them the chance to repent and show remorse for their wrongdoings (Voldemort).
There's nothing cliche about that at all. Emotions like that are as deep as you can possible get. It takes a lot of strength to forgive someone.

Another smaller example, when Percy turns his back on his family when the Weasleys stand up for Harry in OOTP.
When it turns out that Harry was right about Voldemort all along, instead of admitting he was wrong, Percy still refuses to speak to them.
Why? Because of a lot of reasons. He was ashamed, he was embarrassed, he was too proud to admit he was wrong, and he was also probably scared. That is very realistic and very deep. It would be cliche for them to all of sudden be on speaking terms again.
But that's not what real families do. Not at all.

I could go on and on, but my point is, I don't think there's much lacking in the way these characters respond to the situations they're placed in.
There's no easy way to analyze it. You can't just say this character did this for this reason, because there's usually a lot more going on.
And it also depends on how the reader interprets it.
When Harry is pissed off in OOTP, a lot of readers assume it's because he's just being an angsty teenager and they don't like him for it.
But I was happy for him. I was happy to see him finally getting angry about everything he's been through for the past 14 years of his life.
He's finally letting it all out. But that's just my opinion.

 

[TianSoFine]

^^I don't think choosing to be good means that he made peace with death, but rather that there were things that he was willing to risk his life for. Either ways, his death had nothing to do with him being on the good side.

^It looks like the thing I find cliche is exactly what you find not cliche. Harry is brave, good, and forgiving; those are attributes that are applicable to the vast majority of heroes. I see no issue there because that's what makes a hero a hero, but I wouldn't consider this to be anything unique. However, I do think it's cliche that so many of her characters have "goodness" on the inside and end up redeeming themselves.

I'll take Draco as an example. He seems reluctant to let Harry be handed over. Fans have made many interesting interpretations of his reasons aside from him not hating Harry enough to want him to die or no longer loving the whole Death Eater thing once he's seen such horrible things (both lack realism considering the circumstances). There are some very insightful theories, but those go further into it than anything her interviews or books even slightly suggest. An example is that Draco has seen the full extent of Voldemort's cruelty and he's smart enough to figure out that he won't just stop doing horrible things once the war is over, being as evil as he is. After his opposers have been "broken", he would continue to break others as well, and that would eventually even turn on his supporters. There is always the possibility that JKR wanted to leave some things for the fans to decide, but in this scenario, I'd have a very difficult time believing that.

Also, sixteen year old girl probably wouldn't go up to a guy and calls call him an "arrogant, bullying toerag"?

I've always found Percy to be a very realistic character so I'll agree with you there. He was an ambitious boy and understandably wanted to be far more than the Weasleys were. Unfortunately, he just took a step in the wrong direction. I suppose this is a bit random, but another character who I find incredibly realistic is Phineas Nigellus's portrait.

I also agree about Harry's anger in OotP, but I do think that JKR could have written it a bit differently. Because the series is mostly in third person limited to Harry, this gives the opportunity for her to write a bit into why he suddenly got so angry instead of just shouting "before he knew it". I can't imagine a person not being aware of their anger before they start shouting like crazy. Another thing is that after he started his tirade, Ron was quite shocked and speechless, and Hermione was on the verge of tears. I remembered that part quite clearly because I thought it odd that a situation like this would put Hermione on the verge of tears, especially when it seemed to have come so out of the blue. In the part when Harry finally speaks to other people after Moody implies he's dangerous, I also found the dialogue to be a bit unrealistic on Harry's part. I don't quite remember what he said, though.

Anyway, when I mentioned response to situations, I meant smaller things like this, not really the huge choices that characters make.

 

[sobriquet87]

Again, it all depends on how the reader interprets it. Everyone gets different things out of the series. I understood that Hermione teared up and Ron was shocked, because Harry had never yelled at them before. Ever. So, it hurt them, especially since they were only trying to help him.

As for Draco, I think Draco didn't rat Harry out immediately, because he was scared. He was scared of Greyback, who was standing 2 feet away and he was scared of Voldemort who would have undoubtedly been called if Draco confirmed it was indeed Harry.
I don't think Draco ever redeemed himself. He's too selfish to care about anything, but his own well being.

Keeping with the Draco theme, here's a new excerpt from an interview Tom Felton gave to MTV:

On Draco:

"Well, he seems so conflicted and he doesn't know what to do. When it comes to the final battle, he's still a bit confused about which way he should go. It's only in the last stages of the battle that he's really called upon from the dark side when he's standing on the good side, and we see a tough moment for him when he doesn't know where his loyalties lie. That's definitely going to be the defining moment for Draco."

Also, here's a new video about the flight sequences in the films:


MTV, WarnerBrosOnline

 

[Alvedansen]

i love this little details...like Arthur having a bikebag

 

[TianSoFine]

Again, it all depends on how the reader interprets it. Everyone gets different things out of the series. I understood that Hermione teared up and Ron was shocked, because Harry had never yelled at them before. Ever. So, it hurt them, especially since they were only trying to help him.

It was Hermione's reaction I was pointing out, which I would have expected to be more like Ron's. The fact that it was his first time yelling at them adds to the apparent randomness.

As for Draco, I think Draco didn't rat Harry out immediately, because he was scared. He was scared of Greyback, who was standing 2 feet away and he was scared of Voldemort who would have undoubtedly been called if Draco confirmed it was indeed Harry.

Considering his circumstances, I'm not quite sure Fenrir Greyback was the scariest thing to him atm. And his family was with him and Greyback had no upper hand whatsoever. At that point, the thing he was afraid of was looking at Harry and it wasn't as though he would have attacked Draco in he confirmed Harry.
Also, if they let Harry slip through their fingers, he would have reason to fear Voldemort much more than if they successfully handed him over. If Harry was successfully dealt with, it would really get Voldemort of their backs. Arguably, it was failure that made the Malfoys an object of mockery for Voldemort. I'm not saying your theory doesn't work itself, I'm saying it doesn't exactly work with the circumstances JKR gave us. I can only imagine the entire scenario working if Draco had reason to want Voldemort gone (for selfish reasons, of course).

I don't think Draco ever redeemed himself. He's too selfish to care about anything, but his own well being.

That's exactly what I'm saying. Draco's redemption is vaguely implied and spoken of in an interview (I can't remember which one). Fans (yourself included) have tried to work their way around that by putting forth theories, and many of them are good ones, but they all require the fans' imaginations going further than anything that is implied.

I hope no one gets the idea that I don't like JKR as an author, because I am completely obsessed with and I absolutely love the series. I'm just pointing out a minor flaw that I and many other fans have noticed and discussed about her writing (because no author's perfect, although JKR does come quite close).

 

[immortalbliss]

At the MTV Movie Awards..

- Emma Watson is nominated for Best Female Performance
- Daniel Radcliffe is nominated for Best Male Performance
- Daniel Radcliffe, Emma Watson and Rupert Grint vs. the Death Eaters is nominated for Best Fight
- Daniel Radcliffe and Emma Watson are nominated for Best Kiss
- DH1 is nominated for Best Movie..

ugo.com, insidemovies.ew.com, teenvogue.com, popeater.com

If you want, you can vote here: http://www.mtv.com/ontv/movieawards/2011/categories.jhtml

 

[randhrshipper1]

It was Hermione's reaction I was pointing out, which I would have expected to be more like Ron's. The fact that it was his first time yelling at them adds to the apparent randomness.


Considering his circumstances, I'm not quite sure Fenrir Greyback was the scariest thing to him atm. And his family was with him and Greyback had no upper hand whatsoever. At that point, the thing he was afraid of was looking at Harry and it wasn't as though he would have attacked Draco in he confirmed Harry.
Also, if they let Harry slip through their fingers, he would have reason to fear Voldemort much more than if they successfully handed him over. If Harry was successfully dealt with, it would really get Voldemort of their backs. Arguably, it was failure that made the Malfoys an object of mockery for Voldemort. I'm not saying your theory doesn't work itself, I'm saying it doesn't exactly work with the circumstances JKR gave us. I can only imagine the entire scenario working if Draco had reason to want Voldemort gone (for selfish reasons, of course).


That's exactly what I'm saying. Draco's redemption is vaguely implied and spoken of in an interview (I can't remember which one). Fans (yourself included) have tried to work their way around that by putting forth theories, and many of them are good ones, but they all require the fans' imaginations going further than anything that is implied.

I hope no one gets the idea that I don't like JKR as an author, because I am completely obsessed with and I absolutely love the series. I'm just pointing out a minor flaw that I and many other fans have noticed and discussed about her writing (because no author's perfect, although JKR does come quite close).

Yes, it's definitely true that we don't see Draco become a good guy. Even in the Epilogue, he is merely civil to Harry and his friends as they drop off their kids to the Hogwarts Express. He's not friendly. But I do think that Tom Felton's performances graft so much onto the character in that way--redeeming him--that the films are wonderful in that way.

 

[sobriquet87]

@Immortalbliss: Thanks! I'm definitely voting for HP and all the other great movies (there were so few of them) that came out last year.

 

[Zann]

aw Tonks is trending world wide on Twitter!

sad face!

 

[sobriquet87]

^All of the HP characters have been trending daily at some point.
I don't get it, but I love it.

Here are a few new BTS and movie pictures from Deathly Hallows:




snitchseeker

 

[wickedcrazyness]

Great pictures! Thanks!

 

[sobriquet87]

Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows Part I and Part II won at the National Movie Awards last night in London.

Part I won for Best Fantasy film and Part II won for Most Anticipated Summer Film.

Here's a video of all the HP action from the NMAs. Jamie Campbell-Bower is featured at the end, because he appeared in DH Part I.
He won an NMA for Best Brit Newcomer.



hpsupporters

 

[TianSoFine]

I suddenly got obsessed with the literal Harry Potter trailer from tobuscus and I'm proud to say that I've memorized the song.

 

[sobriquet87]

^Lol. I love that!!



tobuscus