The Vegetarian & Vegan Thread

[Melisande]

That's the vegan belief about cheese - if you convince yourself its okay to eat cheese, even knowing the amount of damage and suffering that goes hand in hand with it, then eventually you'll start sneaking in other things until eventually it's back to square one with meat. Makes sense.

(I'll still eat it abroad if there's nothing else though )

Yeah, it makes sense. But it's not intrinsically bad...I mean, it doesn't necessarily have to be made with suffering and damage involved. It's sad that it is often the case. Especially since cheese is like edible art...

 

[Organic]

Yeah, it makes sense. But it's not intrinsically bad...I mean, it doesn't necessarily have to be made with suffering and damage involved. It's sad that it is often the case. Especially since cheese is like edible art...

well, a lot of cheeses are made with rennet or casein, even if the cows are well treated, it still involves death.

Rennet is a natural complex of enzymes produced in any mammalian stomach to digest the mother's milk. Rennet contains a proteolytic enzyme (protease) that coagulates the milk, causing it to separate into solids (curds) and liquid (whey). The active enzyme in rennet is called rennin or chymosin (EC 3.4.23.4) but there are also other important enzymes in it, e. g., pepsin or lipase.

Casein (from Latin caseus "cheese") is the most predominant phosphoprotein found in milk and cheese. When coagulated with rennet, casein is sometimes called paracasein. British terminology, on the other hand, uses the term caseinogen for the uncoagulated protein and casein for the coagulated protein. As it exists in milk, it is a salt of calcium.

 

[Melisande]

well, a lot of cheeses are made with rennet or casein, even if the cows are well treated, it still involves death.

Oh yes, I'd forgotten about that!
Thanks for the info.

 

[justlooking]

justlooking, I just read an excerpt from the book and I must say I'm intrigued. I think I need to order it. Curious. Did it work for you?

Hi, i'm just ordering it for a friend who suffers from the same condition the reviewer has/is managing.

This is a short review by a woman who suffers from a few things (symptoms of which include things such as fatigue).

Your Body Knows Best - another book by Louise Ann Gittelman. While her Super Nutrition book focuses more on vitamin and mineral needs, this book has more of a focus on helping people develop the best diet for their individual needs depending on a variety of factors that include ancestry and how easily they tend to burn off calories. It has extensive information on the role of fats, protein and carbohydrates and how the optimal dietary intake percentages of these may vary from person to person.

Many popular nutrition authors, conventional and alternative alike, still cling unfailingly to the notion that everybody should eat a high carbohydrate, low saturated fat, high fiber diet to help them lose weight, lower their blood pressure, prevent blood clots and lower their cholesterol levels. Yet people with connective tissue disorders and related symptoms are often underweight (especially as children), have low blood pressure, bleed or bruise easily and/or have low cholesterol levels. It would be highly illogical to put people with these types of health concerns on diets designed for the typical health problems of the masses. Your Body Knows Best is one of the few books I've read that that helps people to determine if a higher fat, higher protein diet might be best for their unique individual needs.

http://www.ctds.info/ctd_books.html

This is not advertising! It's just a source for people who are interested to look up because it's kind of obvious that there's no one-diet fits all.

 

[misssakura]

Yeah, it makes sense. But it's not intrinsically bad...I mean, it doesn't necessarily have to be made with suffering and damage involved. It's sad that it is often the case. Especially since cheese is like edible art...

The problem is that people are addicted to cheese. And we're not even talking good quality cheese. Because the demand for cheese and milk are so high it just inflicts more suffering. If all cheese was a $120kg block of slowly aged vintage cheddar then it would perhaps force people to think about where the cheese comes from and why it's so difficult to produce.

Instead (and to be honest I do blame American trends a little) we have cheap packaged cheese, thick cheesy pizzas, cheesy breads, milkshakes, milk solids in breads, milk chocolate...

If everybody limited their dairy intake to 30g of cheese or less a week, no butter, no eggs, no cream or milk, that would help enourmously. The next step is ensuring a good price for the farmers.

Because you see, to produce the volume of milk required, the calf has to be taken away from the mother for slaughter. There's no way around it to produce the volume. Very small farms allow the calf to suckle half and half, half formula, half mother's milk. That way no seperation is necessary. That's how a GOOD farm should work.

Because farms don't make a lot of money, they have to cram as many cows as they can into the milking sheds, have no milk taken away by the calves and ultimately they have to join a big conglomerate. It won't be fixed by people going organic, because then the organic farms will have to produce more and will end up just as bad as the conglomerates.

It's a ridiculously huge problem. Here in New Zealand, a country one thinks of as being so motherly and full of glorious nature, the water systems have been destroyed by intensive dairy and meat farming. That's just with 4 million people.

 

[kare2711]

God, overfishing makes me weep bitterly...
I used to be vegetarian for over four years, but it was socially and logistically so difficult in this country, where every dish includes some fish.

Tell me about it. I miss sashimi so so so!

Still, tell me what do you eat then? I'm a huge lover of japanese cuisine and I don't like to be having vegetables tempura all the time. However, if it's not fish, it's pork or beef or chicken. Tough to eat vegetarian at a japanese joint.

 

[misssakura]

It's sad because Japan (before America invaded in the 1950's with its FDA food deals) used to be a largely vegetarian/pescatarian country.

 

[Melisande]

It's true that Japan hardly consumed meat before the war, and now sadly we've got all the illnesses to show for this change. MissSakura I didn't realize all that was happening in NZ, and probably most places in the world. I guess limiting our dairy intake really would help.

Well, kare, eating Japanese vegetarian at home is actually no problem at all; most traditional dishes are actually vegetarian as long as we use kombu dashi (seaweed stock) instead of fish stock. There are an infinite choices of substantial dishes made of seaweed, tofu, beans, grains, gluten, etc. etc. And obviously, I eat a lot of Italian, Chinese, and whatnot.
Like you say, the real challenge is eating out.

But I like Sakura's attitude of "limiting intake" and "every little bit counts".
I love really good fish and cheese, but it's not cheap, so I try to avoid lesser quality and limit my intake to special occasions.

 

[TheKiwi]

Wanted to share something delicious with my fellow veggies - I tried the Morningstar Farms Spinach and Artichoke nuggets yesterday. Let me tell you, they are AMAZING! So delicious. Try them!

Tonight I'm trying the Boca "sausage". I hope it's good.

 

[seanutbutter]

Thanks for that recommendation—I've actually been considering the nuggets, but have yet to purchase them. I think I'll have to give them a try now.

 

[TheKiwi]

Yes, do! The spinach and artichoke ones are to die for! I haven't been as impressed by a vegetarian product in so long.

 

[flutterbugfly]

I'd love to adopt a vegetarian lifestyle. I'm what people call being a "fake vegetarian" (I eat birds and seafood). I'm mostly interested in being healthy. I guess that's why I've stuck to being a white meat vegetarian. One of my friends who is vegetarian wasn't eating enough protein and her heart stopped functioning properly. =( She's been out for a little.

 

[madison01]

^ oh wow, that's terrible. I hope your friend recovers quickly

I've been a pescatarian for a year or so now (I also try to avoid eating eggs, buying leather...), and I've allowed myself to eat fish because I'm afraid I won't get enough protein in my diet. And 'cause it's so so good. But eventually I'd like to cut it out... because you know the harms of fish farming and such. Which leads to my question: where do you find a sufficient source of protein? Besides tofu/soy, nuts...

 

[misssakura]

A sufficient source of protein? It's hard to not get enough protein. Most people get too much.

http://www.vegsoc.org/info/protein.html

For example, this is what I eat in a typical day.
Morning: Muesli with soy milk
Lunch: Baked beans on toast
Evening: Pinto bean nachos with guacamole

 

[TheKiwi]

I also eat fish, so I'm a Pescetarian. I'm in the group that believes that fish is healthy, and a source of things are to come by in a completely Vegetarian diet. I try to eat wild fish as much as possible, as the farmed variety put me off.

 

[misssakura]

Fish is healthy...or at least it should be. But the oceans are being destroyed by the human lust for fish, and since we dump chemicals and toxins into rivers and oceans it's getting harder to find fish that isn't contaminated.

 

[TheKiwi]

^ It's true. That's why I try to eat fish in moderation - once a week is usually the most.

Are there organic fish farms that take good care of their fish (not thousands of fish in a tiny spot)? I'm curious.

 

[madison01]

A sufficient source of protein? It's hard to not get enough protein. Most people get too much.

http://www.vegsoc.org/info/protein.html

For example, this is what I eat in a typical day.
Morning: Muesli with soy milk
Lunch: Baked beans on toast
Evening: Pinto bean nachos with guacamole

I eat a lot of the things mentioned on that site, but I didn't really realize that it was enough. Thanks for the info!

 

[TheKiwi]

Have you guys heard about this? I'm so upset now!

Source: The Stress Institute

'Heart-Wrenching' -- The Shocking Truth About Chocolate

Traditionally Used as a Stress Reducer, Chocolate Now Causes a Global Moral Dilemma

ATLANTA, May 15, 2007 (PRIME NEWSWIRE) -- Chocolate is the number one food craved by women and is a proven stress reducer. Chocolate causes the brain to release endorphins, chemicals that make us feel good, and it is a natural analgesic or pain killer. Unfortunately, Masterfoods has decided, as of May 1, 2007, to use rennet, which is made from the stomach lining of slaughtered, newborn calves, instead of a vegetarian alternative, in the their chocolate products -- a decision based on finances, not ethics.

"I am appalled, as should be the global consumers of chocolate," said Dr. Kathleen Hall, international stress expert, founder and CEO of The Stress Institute. "I tell my patients and radio listeners to eat three M&Ms a day to help reduce stress without packing on weight, or to eat Masterfoods' branded, low calorie ice cream treats. No more!"

Danielle Piomelli, a researcher at the Neurosciences Institute of San Diego, reported that chocolate contains anandamide, a chemical produced naturally in the brain that activates the same target as marijuana. And, because chocolate is legal, no wonder it is one of the world's most popular "guilty pleasures."

Masterfoods' new additive, rennet, is used in the production of whey and the most common source for animal-based rennet is the inner mucosa (fourth stomach) of slaughtered, milk-fed, new-born cow calves. Interestingly, there are a number of readily available non-animal rennet alternatives including, vegetable, microbial, genetically-engineered, or acid-based coagulation -- but they cost more to produce.

Rennet will now be found in Snickers, M&M, Twix, Milky Way, Bounty, Mars, Dove Chocolate and Malteasers products, as well as the ice cream versions of all Masterfoods' bars. Paul Goalby, corporate affairs manager for Masterfoods, said, "If the customer is an extremely strict vegetarian, then we are sorry the products are no longer suitable, but a less strict vegetarian should enjoy our chocolate."

According to a recent BBC News article, the Vegetarian Society said it was "extremely disappointed."

"Mars products are very popular with young people and many will be shocked to discover that their manufacture now relies on the extraction of rennet from the stomach lining of young calves," it added.

"On the heels of a national pet food recall, causing the deaths of numerous canine and feline companions, this comes as a complete shock that Masterfoods would consider using a product like this," stated Dr. Hall. "It is a moral issue for me," she continued. "More humane alternatives are available and the fact that they have decided to take such an inhumane approach to their products outrages me as a consumer and disgusts me as a human being."

Dr. Hall is available to speak to the media openly about this situation, as well as discuss the stress-based, scientific research behind chocolate.

For more information visit her blog: www.stressinstitute.com.

 

[Organic]

Have you guys heard about this? I'm so upset now!

Source: The Stress Institute

'Heart-Wrenching' -- The Shocking Truth About Chocolate

Traditionally Used as a Stress Reducer, Chocolate Now Causes a Global Moral Dilemma

ATLANTA, May 15, 2007 (PRIME NEWSWIRE) -- Chocolate is the number one food craved by women and is a proven stress reducer. Chocolate causes the brain to release endorphins, chemicals that make us feel good, and it is a natural analgesic or pain killer. Unfortunately, Masterfoods has decided, as of May 1, 2007, to use rennet, which is made from the stomach lining of slaughtered, newborn calves, instead of a vegetarian alternative, in the their chocolate products -- a decision based on finances, not ethics.

"I am appalled, as should be the global consumers of chocolate," said Dr. Kathleen Hall, international stress expert, founder and CEO of The Stress Institute. "I tell my patients and radio listeners to eat three M&Ms a day to help reduce stress without packing on weight, or to eat Masterfoods' branded, low calorie ice cream treats. No more!"

Danielle Piomelli, a researcher at the Neurosciences Institute of San Diego, reported that chocolate contains anandamide, a chemical produced naturally in the brain that activates the same target as marijuana. And, because chocolate is legal, no wonder it is one of the world's most popular "guilty pleasures."

Masterfoods' new additive, rennet, is used in the production of whey and the most common source for animal-based rennet is the inner mucosa (fourth stomach) of slaughtered, milk-fed, new-born cow calves. Interestingly, there are a number of readily available non-animal rennet alternatives including, vegetable, microbial, genetically-engineered, or acid-based coagulation -- but they cost more to produce.

Rennet will now be found in Snickers, M&M, Twix, Milky Way, Bounty, Mars, Dove Chocolate and Malteasers products, as well as the ice cream versions of all Masterfoods' bars. Paul Goalby, corporate affairs manager for Masterfoods, said, "If the customer is an extremely strict vegetarian, then we are sorry the products are no longer suitable, but a less strict vegetarian should enjoy our chocolate."

According to a recent BBC News article, the Vegetarian Society said it was "extremely disappointed."

"Mars products are very popular with young people and many will be shocked to discover that their manufacture now relies on the extraction of rennet from the stomach lining of young calves," it added.

"On the heels of a national pet food recall, causing the deaths of numerous canine and feline companions, this comes as a complete shock that Masterfoods would consider using a product like this," stated Dr. Hall. "It is a moral issue for me," she continued. "More humane alternatives are available and the fact that they have decided to take such an inhumane approach to their products outrages me as a consumer and disgusts me as a human being."

Dr. Hall is available to speak to the media openly about this situation, as well as discuss the stress-based, scientific research behind chocolate.

For more information visit her blog: www.stressinstitute.com.

i hadn't heard about their decision, but i'm hardly surprised.