The Vegetarian & Vegan Thread

[misssakura]

I believe that the pasta company is Villa Bertolli whereas the olive oil/spread company is just Bertolli (used to be Oliviano).

I don't personally think a lot of those videos are dramatised. It would be easier to dismiss if conglomerates didn't own the majority share of the meat processing market. If small farms were still just that - small individually owned farms then it would be easier to assume that the cruelty videos are one offs.

Even here in New Zealand, a country with just 4 million people, there are extreme cases of cruelty to animals in factory farming - a lot of people just assume that because New Zealand is so small, the problems associated with larger economies (e.g. China, America) don't exist. If only that were true.

I've been to farms in France and seen below standard conditions - heck even our neighbour kept her pigs in tiny stalls - however because they had straw and space to move around the conditions would be considered good/very good by many industry professionals.

I'm sure there are farmers out there who keep their animals in good health, with great roaming space - however I think it's somewhat naive to assume that PETA videos and others like them are one offs. Considering the amount of gluttony and greed it would be impossible to sustain a meat industry without a complete lack of respect for the creatures and their welfare.

The other point to consider is - the second the animal is ready for slaughter, no matter whether it goes to an organic slaughterhouse or not, any amount of welfare ends. To transport an animal, often for hundreds of miles, even if just for 5 miles, is cruel. I take my cats just down the road (literally) to the vet and they cry, they're terrified, they want to be home.
As far as I'm concerned the only way the end process could be more ethical is if the farmers were allowed to quietly go up to the cow while it's in the field and put a thick rod gun through it's brain. It would die quickly in the field not knowing it had anything coming to it.

It is illegal to slaughter an animal outside of a certified slaughter house. To make regulator's jobs easier and to make the industry more efficient, the majority of local slaughterhouses have been closed, forcing long journeys for the animals involved.

I'm not having a go, there are definitely people who take the whole PETA thing way too seriously without researching anything else. I just decided, personally, that I don't want to be complacent about how humans behave towards others anymore.

 

[ibimus]

I think it tastes good. My only problem with it is that it's a little harder to spread than real butter. I try spreading it on my organic whole wheat waffles and it's really hard.

...Try it on toast. THAT was a mangled breakfast.
Haha! yes, it definately works best on piping hot foods. Once it melts down a litle bit, it's really lovely.

 

[Guessgirl96]

What a fabulous recipe! Would other canned fruit purees work? What about applesauce?
Can I add chunks of fruits and nuts? (blueberries, walnuts, etc....)
I'm going grocery shopping tomorrow; I'm definately adding this one to the list!

I just made betty crocker cinnobon muffins, half pumpkim mix and half the low cal applesauce recipie they gave. I kinda skrewed up the applesauce recipie they gave (it called for 2 egg whites, .25 cup applesauce .75 cup milk, I accidently switched around the milk and applesauce) but I preffered the pumpkin. I added 2-3 tbsp splenda to both since I like my desserts sweet. I had to cook mine 35 min instead of the 16-21 min they gave.

 

[fashionista-ta]

The other point to consider is - the second the animal is ready for slaughter, no matter whether it goes to an organic slaughterhouse or not, any amount of welfare ends. To transport an animal, often for hundreds of miles, even if just for 5 miles, is cruel. I take my cats just down the road (literally) to the vet and they cry, they're terrified, they want to be home.
As far as I'm concerned the only way the end process could be more ethical is if the farmers were allowed to quietly go up to the cow while it's in the field and put a thick rod gun through it's brain. It would die quickly in the field not knowing it had anything coming to it.

It is illegal to slaughter an animal outside of a certified slaughter house. To make regulator's jobs easier and to make the industry more efficient, the majority of local slaughterhouses have been closed, forcing long journeys for the animals involved.

I'm not having a go, there are definitely people who take the whole PETA thing way too seriously without researching anything else. I just decided, personally, that I don't want to be complacent about how humans behave towards others anymore.

Not justifying one thing or another ... just thought I'd mention that there has been considerable progress wrt slaughter (beef & pork) in the US in the past few years. Temple Grandin (who is autistic and believes that autistic people react much as animals do to their environments) has designed a report card that is used for the vast majority of beef and pork here. And basically what it does is identify the signs of fear in the animals, and the slaughterhouse is penalized (gets a bad grade) if the animals are scared. It's things like, no reflective metal strips run across the floor, because the animal sees that & won't cross it. When the animals stop moving, or if they start to bellow or whatever, they're upset & that's points off. I believe she is now working on poultry ...

Btw, pressure on the fast food industry is what drove this. The big ones (McD's, Burger King, etc.) only buy meat from places that use this report card system. That means that virtually everyone uses it.

I am still reeling from my next door neighbor telling me about how a mother racoon killed one of her babies that we had just been looking at (what a cute little face) on his roof last night. No idea why. Maybe she had a good reason, or maybe (my theory!) she's a crazy b**^&. I'm really sick about it, and I didn't have to see it happen, just hear about it (and see what's left). Nature, red in tooth and claw ... not pretty. So yeah, it's one thing to have some distance from the process, another to be up close & personal with it.

 

[misssakura]

^ I wasn't just talking about the US, everywhere including New Zealand (which is a teensy tiny country)....the second you take the animal out of its environment and pack it onto a truck and make it travel, any idea of ethics flies out of the window as far as I'm concerned. It's good that steps are being taken but with demand rising and rising for meat and meat by products I don't really see an end anytime soon

 

[nicky25]

^well said Missakura..i completely agree..it's the same in Australia...

 

[seanutbutter]

the second you take the animal out of its environment and pack it onto a truck and make it travel, any idea of ethics flies out of the window as far as I'm concerned. It's good that steps are being taken but with demand rising and rising for meat and meat by products I don't really see an end anytime soon

Sad but true.

 

[cosmogrl5]

Thought some of you might be interested in this:

Heather Mills Switches Diet To Veganism

May 29, 2007 8:16 a.m. EST

Jordan Casey - AHN News Writer

London, England(BANG) - Heather Mills has become a vegan.
The former model, the estranged wife of Sir Paul McCartney, has decided to take her vegetarianism a step further after learning about farming methods and the impact they have on the environment.
Heather, who plans to use her celebrity status to highlight the benefits of veganism, said: "I'm a vegan now - a healthy diet which saves animals, something very important to me as I detest cruelty.
"Following a plant-based diet not only benefits your health massively but also makes a huge difference to the planet, to animals and to feeding the world. My hope is to continue to put the message out there."
Vegans do not eat meat, fish or any dairy products and also refuse to use any products or clothing made from animals.
One of Heather's main reasons for becoming a vegan is her objection to the way milk is produced.
She added: "It is the obscenity of taking newborn calves away from their mothers so we can have their milk - a product designed by evolution for little cows, not little people, or big people for that matter.
"I could never go back to eating meat, fish or dairy. I hate the cruelty of factory farming."
Paul's late wife Linda was a strict vegetarian and converted her husband to the way of life in 1975. She also had her own line of meat-free products and cookbook range.

source: allheadlinenews.com

 

[cestmagique]

^thanks for posting that.

I just have to say that I feel so disheartened right now. I've always loved animals and had a real disdain for factory farming, so I tried to limit my intake of animal products and I only bought organic dairy products and 'cruelty free' meat. Then I got curious about how the claims stood up to the reality of the farms and discovered that it is much, much worse than I ever thought... it seems the only way to be sure there is no harm done to animals raised for milk or meat is to raise them yourself, because God only knows that a company that actually has the animals' welfare in mind is extremely rare. Sorry to go on about it but I'm feeling really sad because I thought I was doing a good thing when it's quite the contrary. I'm considering becoming a vegan now though, so I guess in the end it is a good thing...

 

[cosmogrl5]

^thanks for posting that.

I just have to say that I feel so disheartened right now. I've always loved animals and had a real disdain for factory farming, so I tried to limit my intake of animal products and I only bought organic dairy products and 'cruelty free' meat. Then I got curious about how the claims stood up to the reality of the farms and discovered that it is much, much worse than I ever thought... it seems the only way to be sure there is no harm done to animals raised for milk or meat is to raise them yourself, because God only knows that a company that actually has the animals' welfare in mind is extremely rare. Sorry to go on about it but I'm feeling really sad because I thought I was doing a good thing when it's quite the contrary. I'm considering becoming a vegan now though, so I guess in the end it is a good thing...

You're welcome!

And.... please do not get discouraged. The fact that you even care in the first place is more than most people can claim. On top of that, I truly commend you for doing your research and for trying to be so conscious and aware. This speaks volumes about your character in general. Definitely keep doing what you are doing and look into all of your options. I am sure there are more than we might think! The PETA website (though a bit extreme at times) may be a great source for you.

 

[DriversHigh]

i've been veg for 6 months now but i tried going vegan. except i love cheese toooo much. and last night i had a dream i was eating really pale chicken =(

 

[chanelnumber5]

I'm really trying to decrease my dairy intake I'm eating cheese like only two/three times a week now and most of the yoghurt I'm eating is soya. The thing I'm really struggling with is cakes...but I'm improving as I'm trying to decrease my sugar intake too. I don't eat butter anyway so its ok and eggs I'm just having the occassionally eating an omlette and its already in Quorn. I don't think I'm going to give up honey as I don't really object to the honey industry

 

[seanutbutter]

i've been veg for 6 months now but i tried going vegan. except i love cheese toooo much. and last night i had a dream i was eating really pale chicken =(

I feel similar to you. I would probably like to go vegan, but there are certain products I simply enjoy too much to give up. And don't worry; I've had dreams about eating meat as well. As long as you don't act out the dream in real life, you're fine.

 

[justlooking]

If i could cook like they do at some vegan restaurants (where there is really great great food) I would be vegan forever! Unfortunately i can't cook to safe myself

 

[cestmagique]

^me neither. I make one good thing--tomato pasta sauce-- so I practically live on spaghetti and raw fruits & veggies...

 

[cosmogrl5]

I feel similar to you. I would probably like to go vegan, but there are certain products I simply enjoy too much to give up. And don't worry; I've had dreams about eating meat as well. As long as you don't act out the dream in real life, you're fine.

There is a show on the Discovery Health Network called "Get Fresh with Sara Snow." It is seriously my favorite tv show. Sara is young, stylish, and pretty and her show is all about good, clean living. She does eat meat (but only organic) and most of her recipes are actually vegetarian. In one recent episode, she was teaching a teenage boy who wants to be vegan how to cook meals for himself since the rest of his family are meat eaters. The recipes are are her page at the Discovery Health network homepage. Anyway, both the boy and his sister loved all the recipes and food EXCEPT the vegan cheese! They were both like which Sara thought was hysterical. That was the biggest challenge for the teenage boy...giving up cheese. Point being, it is one thing that seems to be difficult for many people to give up, especially since the substitutes just aren't the same. I am sure that the soy industry will catch on soon and try to improve their cheeses. Anyway, you should all check out Sara's show. She had another show before this one in 2005-2006 called "Living Well" on Fit Tv which they also still replay. In both shows, she has recipes, environmental issues, and tips for cruelty free and organic living.

 

[misssakura]

Yeah I think giving up meat is pretty easy but giving up cheese is the hardest thing to do.

I went to a Japanese restaurant last night and had this delicious marinaded sweet vege tofu udon stir fry. So insanely delicious. Usually I hate tofu but it was so creamy on the inside and so crunchy and sweet on the outside....ahhhhh...

 

[TheKiwi]

I'm really trying to decrease my dairy intake I'm eating cheese like only two/three times a week now and most of the yoghurt I'm eating is soya. The thing I'm really struggling with is cakes...but I'm improving as I'm trying to decrease my sugar intake too. I don't eat butter anyway so its ok and eggs I'm just having the occassionally eating an omlette and its already in Quorn. I don't think I'm going to give up honey as I don't really object to the honey industry

There are really great vegan cake and cupcake recipes! They taste just as good, if not better than cakes made with milk and egg products! Try the cookbook "Vegan Cupcakes Take Over The World"! There are some delicious recipes in there!

 

[cosmogrl5]

^ What a cute name.

For those of you are a vegetarians or vegans, are your family members as well? How about close friends? I often wonder how many are going it alone so to speak.

 

[TheKiwi]

^ I'm going it alone. My family all eats meat. My mom's parents are ranchers and have raised cattle for decades, my mom's sister's family hunts, and my dad never met a steak that he didn't like. It's kind of hard whenever there are family functions, but day-to-day it's easy because I'll usually prepare my own food.