Working in Paris

nikousha

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Question |fashion Industry|

Hi,I'm newbie on this forum...I'm 20 years old,fashion designer, live in Georgia,Tbilisi.Learn (this is a last year) in Academy of Art.After that, in september i'm going to paris,want to work there in fashion houses (mostly Christian Dior,Jean Paul Gaultier......) but got no information how i must begin work there,what i must do,is it possible or not.
Mostly what i really can and i like is design shoes (womens) (i've got hundred sketchs of my shoes desigh) + design mens (clothes & shoes) + i can make shoes and can sew clothes (by my own) and all that stuff.

Give some advices ... Thanks in advance. :smile:
 
I think you're aiming awfully high

for a 20-year-old just out of school. What will be your legal employability status?

My advice? If you do go there, try to get in contact before you go with others there from your own country. When you get there, do even more of this, and devote your first few months to developing your language skills (Do you speak French?) and making more contacts outside those from your own country but from countries other than France. Others going through the same culture-change experience as you will be most sympathetic and be able to give you the best advice on local strategies.

I think you will need an enormous amount of luck.
 
DJCNOR:
for a 20-year-old just out of school. What will be your legal employability status?
Bachelor's degree.
If you do go there, try to get in contact before you go with others there from your own country.
My mothers relatives are living in paris,so they will send me visa.
When you get there, do even more of this, and devote your first few months to developing your language skills (Do you speak French?)
Yeah, I'm learning french,start month ago. :smile:
I think you will need an enormous amount of luck.
:-( Thanks,but i'm not lucky,and thanks for advices.. :smile:
Is't so hard really?
 
yes it is very hard. I'm surprised - has your school taught you nothing about how to find a job? make contacts and connections? It may be easier to start out first in Georgia and then move over but it will take a lot of pluck.

you need to check the visa options out yourself, honestly. Unless your mother is french, the ability of any relative to sponsor you will be VERY low. Aunts/Uncles are usually not on the sponsor list. I think even if you do get over there you need to be prepared for the fact that there is discrimination against eastern europeans.
 
A visitors Visa is different from a Visa permitting you to work in another country. Do you know whether the Visa your relatives would be obtaining for you would permit you to work in France?

The fashion houses you mentioned were very high profile. The competition for any kind of job with them will be very very intense. Working in such a house is the ultimate aim of fashion graduates from all over the world. Such highly sought after jobs are acquired by a combination of excellent skills, those skills documented by considerable experience, and excellent connections just to get you an interview or even to find out about an opening that is occurring, and luck. You might check whether your school can provide you with any connections for unpaid internships, if you can afford to do that.

Otherwise, perhaps you will find fellow Eastern Europeans working in the craft areas, actually sewing clothes or making shoes, not necessarily for top designers, as a part of contracting firms that take on commissions from designers for first samples, and they can get you something in their area, IF you have a work permit.

I really only know New York (and not at the top designer level) and somewhat less about the London fashion scene. Perhaps someone with Paris experience will post a reply as well.
 
I'm surprised - has your school taught you nothing about how to find a job? make contacts and connections?
:( no.
It may be easier to start out first in Georgia and then move over but it will take a lot of pluck.
You mean to make collection here? I was thinking about that (to make collection and show it on Russian Fashion Week) but:
1.Don't have enough money.
2.Need more practice.
3.Don't like RFW.
I think even if you do get over there you need to be prepared for the fact that there is discrimination against eastern europeans.
Yeah,i know,but really don't care about it.-_-

P.S on this forum nobody lives in paris and work in fashion industry?
 
DJCNOR:
Do you know whether the Visa your relatives would be obtaining for you would permit you to work in France?
I guees, they know about that.
The fashion houses you mentioned were very high profile. The competition for any kind of job with them will be very very intense. Working in such a house is the ultimate aim of fashion graduates from all over the world. Such highly sought after jobs are acquired by a combination of excellent skills, those skills documented by considerable experience, and excellent connections just to get you an interview or even to find out about an opening that is occurring, and luck. You might check whether your school can provide you with any connections for unpaid internships, if you can afford to do that.
Hmm,I thought i will show them my portfolio and if they like my works i will get a job. And if they don't like, they will not.
I really only know New York (and not at the top designer level) and somewhat less about the London fashion scene.
Yeah, any kind of information will help me.
Perhaps someone with Paris experience will post a reply as well.
Hope so.
 
agreed with all said above

to me some post graduation programme in paris would be a possible start, you can get you french better, have time for 'orientation', and learn better how the things work... speaking from my friends and my expirience and as an eastern european...

good luck:smile:
 
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mirrra:
Yeah, it's great possibility to get more practice and to feel working system of real fashion houses (what's very important) ; )
Thanks.. : )
 
How hard is it to get a job in fashion in Paris? I'm assuming it's one of the hardest markets to get into because Paris is the capital of fashion. :blush: How would one even get started looking for a job? It could be anything entry level that doesn't require a fashion-related degree. As an american, would I even be eligible to look for a job in Paris? Please help. :flower:
 
Check out these threads, below... they are not about getting a job in Paris, per se, but they all give some valuable information about interning and trying to compete in the Paris fashion world.

I have not idea about government requirements for non French people working in France ... but some type of working visa or permenent residency documents would probably needed, so I'd start there to see if you would even be allowed to work in France, as an American.

Secondly, I see this come up all the time and I believe it to be true: the French will expect you to not only be fluent in French they will expect you to respect and practice the very different social customs that they have.

It's interesting ... I studied this before my first trip to France and discovered that we consider the French to be rude and they consider us to be rude and it all boils down to ettiquette. They are extremely proper people and have a concise set of ettiquette rules which are very different from what we normally do. That is why Americans and the French tend to clash.

So it's important to study the French and their customs and adopt their way of thinking and interacting ... or they will literally turn their backs on you ... in shops, in restaurants and certainly in the workplace. I saw it happen to my husband ... he approached a French restaurant owner in the wrong way. I told him not to go in until I was there to make the correct approach, but he thought his natural charm would work ... it didn't. The man just sneered at him, turned around and walked out of the room! It took me about 5 minutes to make ammends so we could be served dinner.

http://www.thefashionspot.com/forums/f90/struggling-succeed-paris-young-designers-33608.html


***Edited *** dead link.
 
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Thanks for the links! I definitely believe that most misunderstandings between cultures is due to lack of understanding and miscommunication. I've been to Paris a few times, and have not found the French to be rude at all. As someone who is quite and reserved, I am used to being misjudged (ppl tell me all the time, oh you're nice; I thought you were blah blah blah). So I am very open to learning cultural norms. Thanks again. :smile:
 
I guess I'm more intersted in the magazine industry. I wonder if the process is the same as in the States?
 
I worked in Paris for a year and I can def say it was one of the hardest things I ever did. I am British so therefore had comeplete permission to stay and work there. Paris is over run with Brits, Europeans, Americans who have come to live and "experience" Paris - and every single one found it tough.

I think the first problem Americans have with the French, is the language barrier. As posted above, the French are a very proud nation and they take it personally when someone doesn't respect that - i.e. talking to them in English without asking them. I'm sorry to sound biased her, but out of all my time in Paris its only the Americans who do this (or at least 95% of the time) Therefore the Americans do have a bad reputation in Paris for being rude and not even trying. One thing about the Parisians which defines them from the French is they are VERY snobby. I cannot emphasie this enough. Nowhere in the world have I come across such attitude. I went to a party on night behind Bastille in this massive design studio held by a couple of well known designers - and one girl actually mocked me for wearing last seasons shoes. I do not joke about this.

I'm not trying to put you off but just go into this with your eyes open, becuase Paris is full of people who went in with their eyes shut and in a dream land about the way of life they expect to live there. I had full permission to work, a fresh fashion degree and experience and I really struggled. I had some American friends and it was harder for them because they did not have "papiers"

When you live in Paris you have to get a "Carte" which basically shows you have the right to work. These are very hard to get hold of and most people don't bother because the beuacracy is rife.

Another thing is the accomodation - Paris is one of the hardest places in the world to find somewhere to live. When you apply to rent you have to have the following: three months rent (one for the deposit, one for the first months rent and one for the last months rent), an "astestation" which is a written letter from your employer declaring that you have a job in Paris and how much you earn; copies of your bank statements showing how much money you have; three references from your previous landlord, estate agents etc; plus a personal reference showing that you are a worthy character. You have to take all of this with you when you go to see a property (and most likely the queue will be out of the door) Because Paris has a border it means that there is only so much to go around.

I'm not saying its impossible, but it is tough. Just please make sure you are prepared for this, plus have plenty of money to support yourself. I don't mean to be harsh but I met so many Americans like yourself who though living in Paris would be easy and were very disappointed.

Saying all this, I had a wonderful time. I met some wonderful people and made some great friends. People are still amazed when I tell them I used to live in Paris (I now live in Melbourne, Australia).

I really wish you the best of luck with this. My best possible recommendation is take *plenty* of money. Save up as much as you can as you will need that saftey net. It takes time to find a job and somewhere to live in Paris and without lots of funds it can be quite scary. Plus really work hard at your French. The French don;t mind speaking to Americans and as long as you are trying they will be patient with you. Its if you start speaking English to them without their permission is really quite rude and makes you look ignorant. I often found that I would start speaking French and they would answer me in English as they are very keen to try their English on you. Just as long as you are making the effort you will be fine.

Best of luck to you! :flower: I really hope I haven't put you off but I am giving you a realistic account of what its like to live in Paris. :heart:
 
I'm not saying its impossible, but it is tough. Just please make sure you are prepared for this, plus have plenty of money to support yourself. I don't mean to be harsh but I met so many Americans like yourself who though living in Paris would be easy and were very disappointed.

Thanks very much for the lengthy reply and the honesty. :flower:

I do want to say, though, that I don't in ANY way think packing up and moving to a foreign country will be easy. I've been planning to move for about a year now, and the move itself won't happen for another couple of years, so as you can see, I'm a planner. This is why I'm asking these questions now. About the language thing, I ALWAYS speak french to anyone in a french speaking country. It would just be rude not to. Consequently, I tend to blend in when I travel abroad.

Also, I "moved" abroad for the summer to test the waters so to speak. It's definitely hard to pick up and move. And yes, the housing situation is HARD. It took me about 5 months to find a place to stay so believe me, I'll be looking into housing WAY in advance.

About the snobbery and the incident with your shoes: would you say all french are like that or would you say that was more related to your job in the fashion industry? That was really messed up.

Although I want to live in Paris, I'm not going into it completely starry-eyed. :flower: So, can I ask you what you did and how you found your job?
 
Plus really work hard at your French. The French don;t mind speaking to Americans and as long as you are trying they will be patient with you. Its if you start speaking English to them without their permission is really quite rude and makes you look ignorant. I often found that I would start speaking French and they would answer me in English as they are very keen to try their English on you. Just as long as you are making the effort you will be fine.

I don't think you have to ask them... the major problem is that every english speaker think everybody in the world speaks english... and honestly this is really not the case in France!!!! foreign language is still a problem in France!!! But I guess if you live in France, work with french... of course you have to talk french... at least a little bit... if I go working in New York, I really doubt I could talk easily my mother language - i.e french - with a lot of people I work with!!!!....I would do an effort to speak english... that's common sense!
but if you work in fashion a lot of people talk english... so it could be ok....
well I think so...but if you don't understand french, say it!!!
say "excuse moi, mais je comprends pas! peut-on parler anglais, s'il te plaît??" :wink:
oh yeah actually you have to ask... but I think it's normal and polite, non?

Another thing is the accomodation - Paris is one of the hardest places in the world to find somewhere to live. When you apply to rent you have to have the following: three months rent (one for the deposit, one for the first months rent and one for the last months rent), an "astestation" which is a written letter from your employer declaring that you have a job in Paris and how much you earn; copies of your bank statements showing how much money you have; three references from your previous landlord, estate agents etc; plus a personal reference showing that you are a worthy character. You have to take all of this with you when you go to see a property (and most likely the queue will be out of the door) Because Paris has a border it means that there is only so much to go around.

that is 100% true!!! pay attention to that kind of things....
so if you know sb there, ask him/her to look for you before you come there... or ask if you can share appt. for a while, while you're looking for your own!!!

one thing I want to add because I've heard a lot of complains about this...
France is all about administration!!!!! Getting a paper from administration takes soo much time!!! + we, in France, have the 35 heures... which means people working in public services only work 35hrs a week!!! = opens the office at 9-10am close at 16.30-17.30 pm... and most of the time don't work btw 12-2pm!!!!
and it's the same for a lot of things!!!!

about the immigration... it's pretty hard... but I think it's the same now in USA... pay attention!!!!!

about snobism in Paris... it's true, too!!! and esp. in Fashion!!! there are a lot of b***.... but not everybody is like that!! c'mone!

if you have any question about France... do not hesitate!
 
Does anyone have a link to sites like "Living in France for Dummies"? I may be going to school there soon, but there are so many little domestic differences between the US and France that it's intimidating...
 
I think the first problem Americans have with the French, is the language barrier. As posted above, the French are a very proud nation and they take it personally when someone doesn't respect that - i.e. talking to them in English without asking them. I'm sorry to sound biased her, but out of all my time in Paris its only the Americans who do this (or at least 95% of the time) Therefore the Americans do have a bad reputation in Paris for being rude and not even trying.

I think that this excuse for snobbery is very unfair. While a large number of Americans are indeed lazy, I find it perfectly understandable that we are not all fluent in French as many of the European countries are. This is simply a matter of geography and government (we have no equivalent of the European Union). Many complain that Americans don't bother learning foreign languages but, we do learn the most relevant one (to our country:( Spanish.

And it is also unfair for other countries to use the defense "well, we learned English, we've learned your language, why can't you learn ours?" Well, let's face it, English is the most widely used of the western languages particularly for business.

(and for the record, I know Spanish and French)
 
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I think that this excuse for snobbery is very unfair. While a large number of Americans are indeed lazy, I find it perfectly understandable that we are not all fluent in French as many of the European countries are. This is simply a matter of geography and government (we have no equivalent of the European Union). Many complain that Americans don't bother learning foreign languages but, we do learn the most relevant one (to our country:( Spanish.

And it is also unfair for other countries to use the defense "well, we learned English, we've learned your language, why can't you learn ours?" Well, let's face it, English is the most widely used of the western languages particularly for business.

(and for the record, I know Spanish and French)

Many of my French friends see the whole language thing as a bit of that "When in Rome, do as the Romans do" which is definitely understandable. If I was in a foreign country, I'd at least try to make an effort to speak in the language as much as I can. It's just courtesy I suppose, especially if you are asking for directions from a local. By speaking in your own language, you're making it much more difficult on the local's behalf who is trying to help you get on your way.

I agree that Americans do learn foreign languages, sometimes because of high school requirements. And yes, due to geography and the relevance of a language, French isn't really a priority to learn in our country. Most choose to learn Spanish because it is relevant to the USA with the big Spanish speaking population, but when traveling, you aren't always in a Spanish speaking country so obviously speaking Spanish won't do much.

Other countries are just more tolerant with Americans speaking English everywhere, but France isn't just one of those countries. Learn the language as best as you can, and you'll receive a warmer welcome from the French. The language is incredibly beautiful, so it wouldn't hurt to learn it anyways. Plus I know many Americans who say "this is America, learn to speak English." So it's basically the same thing.

thefrancofille,
There's a book called "A French Companion: A Handbook for English Speakers Travelling and Living in France" by Helen Caradon which might help with learning customs and is filled with plenty of practical info about social services, acquiring your flat/house, the health system in France, all the way to French etiquette .
 
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