Your fur style - please read thread guidelines in post #1 before posting

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I never cared for the look, even when i wasn't a vegetarian(almost Vegan). To me it never seemed classy, and especially after I found what happens to the poor original owners of the fur. But if you must use a faux fur fashion for fun. Covering yourself in it seems a bit ridiculous real or fake.

i feel the same way. my reasons for not every purchasing it has little to do with the animals. i just never wanted to wear it. i wouldn't pay for fur, but i won't waste it either... what's done is done.


also who is it that is giving out rights to other animals let alone humans? this all goes back to what ppl believe at their core... i think we have 'the right' to use materials available to us as long as we respect and give thanks for the life we're taking (plant or animal) by not wasting its life just for ONE aspect of it (e.g. chinchilla fur).

i really like leather and wool though. :]
 
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Hey thank you DriversHigh.

I didn't realise Gius, that feelings ran that high, in NYC. Fear has a real chance of back firing. and i, for one, do not like the way some people go about protesting this issue, or others.

As well as what people believe...i think morality has a part to play. Just because we can, doesn't mean we should.
...
 
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for sure, but who/what determines who or what gets rights then?

people will have their opinions--some will be grounded in personal preference, others in their religion, and others still just won't care unless x,y,or z affects their directly. i think for most ppl and a lot of situations this right to life stuff can be very subjective. from the girl with leather sandals and a leather belt poo-pooing fur lovers to the animal rights activist who mauls a woman wearing fur to folks who get so emotional about chinchillas dying but don't think twice about killing a gross insect.

i'm just skeptical is all. :)
 
for sure, but who/what determines who or what gets rights then?

people will have their opinions--some will be grounded in personal preference, others in their religion, and others still just won't care unless x,y,or z affects their directly. i think for most ppl and a lot of situations this right to life stuff can be very subjective. from the girl with leather sandals and a leather belt poo-pooing fur lovers to the animal rights activist who mauls a woman wearing fur to folks who get so emotional about chinchillas dying but don't think twice about killing a gross insect.

i'm just skeptical is all. :)

Thats a question that has, and will stick around for a while to come.How, or what, do we listen to for guidance on these issues, and others possibly.
Common sense is a good place to start.;)

The problem is that humans are convinced of there own superiority. ( In the overall run of things)We rule the planet with an un yielding desire to benefit from the supposed resources, but doing little, in the way of accepting responsibility.
And that wielding of power comes with its problems.
This is not to say were totally bad. We are capable, of great things.
One of the only times we seem to shine,, are when things are at there worse.
When were all trying to accumulate , we tend to lose sight of the more important issues.
The issue is, that animals are capable of social interaction , can feel pain, fear, and have family bonds.
Is it then right, to impose our desire for vanity, on animals, to satisfy our desire to wear there skin/fur?
We are so much more capable than that. We can achieve alot of things when we put our minds to it.So cant we find alternatives, instead of the mass butchering of animals?
 
Please stay on the topic of whether or not you wear or would wear fur. If you want to pursue the question into the realm of religion, politics or chicken farming, please do so via PM or some other venue.

We understand that this issue is highly emotional to some people but this thread is not the place to vent those emotions. Thanks for your cooperation and understanding.
 
Please stay on the topic of whether or not you wear or would wear fur. If you want to pursue the question into the realm of religion, politics or chicken farming, please do so via PM or some other venue.

We understand that this issue is highly emotional to some people but this thread is not the place to vent those emotions. Thanks for your cooperation and understanding.


Okay Tangerine, thanks for pointing that out.:flower:

My own choice to wear fur or not, is not rocket science.
Lets make no bones about this......
Wearing fur means that the person supports cruelty, torture, and horrific ways of killing defenseless creatures, who have no choice.
To do any of the things i have just listed, to be fashionable/ or for reasons of vanity...is just wrong.....wrong.....wrong.
 
I take it then, that your pun on making bones was unintentional? ;)

In any case, I think your four posts on the subject have staked out your position completely and unequivocally. :flower:
 
I take it then, that your pun on making bones was unintentional? ;)

In any case, I think your four posts on the subject have staked out your position completely and unequivocally. :flower:


Defiantly unintentional..

Really?...i was attempting to be subtle........;)
All the very best Tangerine.:flower:
 
I think it would be a bit hypocritical of me to say no ,being that I eat dead animals on an almost daily basis.Will I ever wear fur?Probably not.Do I honestly care that much if other people wear it?Not really, they can wear whatever they want it's their life ,but I have seen horrific videos of fur farms and they are so awful.I think faux fur can be made just as soft and real feeling as real fur ,so why not just make a change to fake?

I do think it's stupid that people make these incredibly sensational attempts at protesting fur and leather.It just annoys people more so than it changes their opinions.Now, have them watch videos from peta.com and that could change their mind.
 
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Today we saw the latest Jean Paul Gaultier collection, which carried lots of fur and caused lots of controversie in its respective thread, this season in general is filled with fur, but thinking of it so it was last season and dating back, I remember seing lots of fur since the late 90´s on the catwalks, I have always liked that material and therefor I have spent time reading about it and doing researchs about how it is produced, I have even atended a seminar about it, and visited fur farms and I have to say that in all of Europe, and South America, (where chinchillas are raised), theres no such thing as torture, yes, animals are breed and killed for its fur, but they are not skined alive and in order to obtain a high quality skin, they must live a decent, healthy life.
I have too seen all of those (well, how many?, two videos?) that peta has uploaded about a chinese fur farm and used to shock
the entire world with, and I have to say that is a sad reality that doesn´t happen in European and american fur farms.

My intention is not to change peoples minds about it, it is ok not to like fur, but it is necessary to be informed about the reality behind fur farming.

From Saga ******** (the worlds largest mink and fox producers, who work with most designers, including Jean Paul Gaultier).

Fur Breeding

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Fur breeding is obviously the cornerstone of the fur industry and ethics has always been a cornerstone of the Saga Furs philosophy. Saga Furs has chosen to work only with European farms that meet a rigorous set of national and international standards guarding animal welfare.
The breeding of fur-bearing animals has long been an integral segment of the agricultural heritage in the Nordic countries. Saga Furs set ethical standards for fur farming in the Nordic region and our success led to partnerships in other parts of Europe. European fur farms producing mink, fox and finnraccoon skins represent an agricultural heritage dating back to the beginning of the 20th century.
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ETHICS
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In addition to strong Nordic and European ethics governing animal welfare, fur breeding is well regulated by national laws and guidelines as well as regulations monitored by the Council of Europe. Today’s mink, fox and finnraccoon are domesticated animals that are completely adapted to a sheltered life on the farm.
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WELFARE
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Fur breeders adhere to high standards of care, housing, health and animal welfare. Every skin that bears the SAGA FURS label represents a Nordic heritage and traditional European expertise that results in the best quality skins in the world.
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TODAYS'S FARM
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Most European fur farms are family owned and generally combined with other forms of animal or plant production. Fur breeding is well regulated by national and international laws and guidelines. This segment of the agricultural industry provides a valuable source of employment in many countries.
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RESEARCH
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The European fur industry works closely with scientists. Research findings to benefit fur farmed animals are continually being adapted in areas such as housing, disease prevention, nutrition, husbandry, breeding and selection. The process of implementing further improvements is an ongoing responsibility shared by researchers and fur breeders around Europe.
 
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Too answer the question of the thread---no I would not.And referring to the above post ^^ Such positive spin on slaughtering-for-fur comes from the largest "producer" of fox and mink. How not smart, not compelling, or not engaging this try for public approval is.
 
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No no and no. It makes me sad :( I think fur is really beautiful..like when it's on the animal.
 
The words "fur farms" and "ethics" simply don't belong in the same sentence, however, I smile at and acknowledge both your effort and the effort of Saga furs in attempting to make nice with those against the fur trade.

It is most definitely a first step, but we must remember that fur is an unnecessary luxury. Saga furs, and affiliated fur farms, are not out saving lives or changing the world, therefor, they should not showcase their proposed practices hoping that it will sway those against fur. Instead, I would suggest that they devise some sort of plan to stop their practices altogether or at the very least come up with a method of minimizing the amount of pelts it takes to make certain pieces.

As it stands, this is similar to someone saying that they poisoned someone and that the act of doing so was ok because the victim felt no pain. It seems a bit like backwards thinking and is simply a way of avoiding the issue at hand.
 
positive spin? isn't the quality of fur pelts dependent on the health of the animal? so it would make a lot of sense that high quality fur breeders take good care of the animals. it's not positive "spin", it's an explanation for why and how their fur is better than most.
 
j´adore dior...My aplogies...but i will respond to your post through PM, or profile comment.:flower:
 
I don't think it's right, even if animals are being slaughtered in a "humane" manner.

What if someone took a bunch of us and decided to raise us to kill us for use? The arrogance of humans sometimes.

JPG's show was atrocious. It's one thing to feature furs, it's another to wear a dead animal's head over your head.
 
positive spin? isn't the quality of fur pelts dependent on the health of the animal? so it would make a lot of sense that high quality fur breeders take good care of the animals. it's not positive "spin", it's an explanation for why and how their fur is better than most.

Well, it makes sense to me that "high quality fur breeders" would want you to think their company itself is of high quality when the action of "fur breeding"
is abhorrent itself. All businesses have positive spin so that the customer thinks that business is the one to utilize.
 
yes to all the fur that MK and Ash wear...they always have the most chic and unique fur coats.
 
j´adore dior.:flower:


When it comes to choosing to wear fur or not, you decide...the true owner can not. Of course if you believe in personal choice, then "one" must grant the victim choice.

In this..the modern age, for most of the population there is no essential need to wear fur.
A large proportion of retail fur comes from fur farms. These farms are managed to maximise profit, at the detriment of the victims.............the animals.

Animals are kept in row upon row of small cages, just adequate to move around in. This is distressing to the animal, whose instinct, depending on which species we are talking about, is to roam free, socialise, interact with members of there own species, mate, raise young, etc etc. In short institutionalized torture.This sort of intensive confinement has severe psychological implications.. And of course, there only crime to be caged, is that some people wants there skin/fur.
No matter what scientists do, thousands of years evolution will not change the "in breed" instincts these creatures have, live by and live for.
This sort of intensive confinement has severe psychological implications. The obviously distressing and horrific results of confinement have been researched, witnessed, and documented...these are the facts, and they are indisputable.


"The Ethical Case Against Fur Farming
A statement by an international group of academics,
including ethicists, philosophers and theologians.
Summary
1. An increasing number of European countries have, or are in the process of, introducing legislation
to cur tail, or prohibit, fur farming, including Italy, Austria, Sweden and the Netherlands. Last year, fur
farming was outlawed in England and Wales on the ground of ‘public morality’. Similar legislation has now
been passed in Scotland. (paras 1.1-1.2)
2. Concern for the right treatment of animals has a long legislative histor y. Society has a clear stake in
safeguarding animals from acts of cruelty. Human beings benefit from living in a society where cruelty is
actively discouraged.(paras 2.1-2.3)
3. The evidence shows that it is unreasonable, even per fidious, to suppose that fur farming does not impose
suffering on what are essentially wild animals kept in barren environments in which their behavioral
needs are frustrated.(paras 3.2-3.6)
4. Growing ethical concern for animals has been reinforced by considerable intellectual work on the status
of animals. There is an emerging consensus among ethicists for fundamental change.(para 4.1)
5. There is a strong, rational case for animal protection. Animals make a special moral claim upon us
because, inter alia, they are morally innocent, unable to give or withhold their consent, or vocalise their
needs, and because they are wholly vulnerable to human exploitation. These considerations make the
infliction of suffering upon them not easier – but harder to justify.(paras 4.2-4.4)
6. Law has a proper role in defending the weak and the vulnerable from exploitation, including animals and
children. (para 5.1)
7. There is increasing evidence of a link between the abuse of animals and other forms of violence, notably
against women and children. It is an increasingly viable assumption that a world in which abuse to
animals goes unchecked is bound to be a less morally safe world for human beings.(para 5.2)
8. Those who regard the infliction of suffering on animals as intrinsically objectionable rightly oppose fur
farming. In their view, there are certain acts against vulnerable subjects that are so morally outrageous
that they can never be morally licit.(para 6.1)
9. Fur farming is, however, also unacceptable to those who hold that the infliction of suffering can sometimes
be justified. Fur farming fails a basic test of moral necessity. It is wholly unjustifiable to subject animals
to prolonged suffering for trivial ends, such as fur coats or fashion accessories. Fur is a non-essential
luxury item.(paras 6.2-6.3)
10. *****************************************************************************
11. The claim that banning fur farming is an infringement of legitimate freedom is untenable; many previous
cruelties (now illegal) have been defended on that basis. There can be no civil right to be cruel.(paras
9.1-9.2)
12. *****************************************************************************
13. In a democratic society, the law should properly reflect our changed ethical perception of animals and,
specifically, the public’s long-standing opposition to fur farming.(para 12.2)

*Please note i have removed 10 and 12, so as not to conflict with tFS rules.

This quoted summary is part of a document compiled by around 70 Ethicists, Philosophers, Theologians, authors and academics. I suggest that it would be extremely hard, if not impossible, to deny the logic, well thought approach that these people have contributed.

Methods of ending the animals life , vary from farm to farm. The priority being, the pelt, not the animals .
The two main methods are not as "quick" as is claimed.
1/. The first method, claimed to be humane, by the fur industry, is directly in conflict with research carried out. ....."they run around the gas chamber frantically and struggle to keep their heads above the level of the gas." The gas stings the airways, and is a tortuous end.
2/. The second main method, is dependent on a variety of factors. Animals metabolism, state and maintenance of equipment, pressure on worker, how conducts this method etc. The animal is forcible held, or taken from cage. If done in situ, the surrounding animals can sense/ know what is happening. If removed, the stress from this experience, is damaging as well.
This method induces a massive heart attack., which can and does paralyse the animal, and the creature can suffer for a significant period of time, in relation to the claims made of a "quick" end.
There are variations on this method.
Due to the variants this is a tortuous end.
The remaining methods, practiced in USA, as well as other countries, are too horrific to post.
These events are witnessed by researchers, and workers .

It is not the case of how we kill...it is that we do kill for no necessity.
No amount of disguising the reality...masking the fundamental principles...or the marketing strategy of a fur company will change this.
 
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^

Animal welfare
Wide attention for the welfare of the animals that are entrusted to us has become generally accepted in our society. It is a development in which fur breeders like to lead the way. Scientific research and professional application of results have made important contributions. Various national animal protection organisations and government bodies acknowledge and support further improvement of fur animals welfare.
Prominent scientists confirm that farmed fur animals are now only very distant relatives of their wild ancestors. After more than 80 generations they have adapted to their changed environment and because of that have progressed a long way on the path towards domestication.
Important signs of welfare include the animals' health, successful reproduction, average size compared to wild animals and the quality of their fur.
Breeding fur animals is based on the animals' natural cyclic. No artificial techniques are used.
Current research on improvement of fur animals' welfare also focuses on the upgrading of outside cages and group cages.
Contribution to the food chain
Fur farming recycles by-products from the poultry and fish-processing industries and because of that makes an important contribution to the intelligent use of waste. The fur animals' by-products are rich in protein and are used for making food for pets. Oils are processed in cosmetics.
Fur Farming is a clean activity
Chemicals and pesticides are not used. The introduction of modern animal waste collection systems and ensuring the high quality of food ensure that emissions of phosphates and nitrates are kept to a minimum. The (small quantities of) waste produced is ideal for fertilising plants and flowers.

Fur breeders supply a durable raw material for clothing without exhausting natural resources as occurs with the production of synthetics based on oil. It is completely biodegradable and, because of its long life span, can be frequently re-used.
 
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