Celine F/W 2022.23 Paris

[tourbillions]

What is happening here, feels like reading a kpop stan forum. Can we all agree that Hedi's Celine failed to become an addition to the regular options of the retail luxury goods consumers (namely LV, Chanel, Dior, or even Balenciaga). As some members already mentioned, luxury consumers already have their go-to brands for Hedi's propositions for Celine. Chanel for tweed jackets, Hermes for the handbags, and dare i say balenciaga for denims. In terms of finding cheaper basics with great quality there's other brands that sells them for a rip off compared to Celine, like japanese brands for denims, theory and a whole lot of others for basic tees etc.

 

[LostInNJ]

What is happening here, feels like reading a kpop stan forum. Can we all agree that Hedi's Celine failed to become an addition to the regular options of the retail luxury goods consumers (namely LV, Chanel, Dior, or even Balenciaga). As some members already mentioned, luxury consumers already have their go-to brands for Hedi's propositions for Celine. Chanel for tweed jackets, Hermes for the handbags, and dare i say balenciaga for denims. In terms of finding cheaper basics with great quality there's other brands that sells them for a rip off compared to Celine, like japanese brands for denims, theory and a whole lot of others for basic tees etc.

Can we though? Celine is/was close to approaching 2 billion euros in sales. Clearly someone is purchasing it, and at current Celine prices it certainly isn't a customer looking for the cheap alternative. I'm not saying the customers that are loyal to the other brands have strayed, rather; he has someone buying the product. Exactly what categories they are purchasing in, I don't know, as it isn't defined, but I wouldn't call his Celine a failure.

No, it isn't the "high fashion" forward thinking brand people had wanted it to remain, as it was under Phoebe. As someone pointed out earlier, being a commercial success doesn't exempt a designer or anyone from criticism, but I don't think the LVMH suits care so much.

Assemblée générale LVMH : une contribution de 37 milliards à l'économie française - Consignes et comptes-rendus d'AG

 

[susseinmcswanny]

Does anyone know what the store's vibe is and what they actually produce/stock? I've never been to one yet. I was just wondering if they make a lot of it. I remember going into SL during his time looking for things and sometimes the selection would be sparse. I was often met with the "you need to preorder to secure" type of thing, which I don't really wanna do anymore ever again lol. And a while ago I tried buying some specific boots, calling the store, emailing, etc to no avail lol. Could've been a covid thing though

 

[vogue28]

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[RedSmokeRise]

Does anyone know what the store's vibe is and what they actually produce/stock? I've never been to one yet. I was just wondering if they make a lot of it. I remember going into SL during his time looking for things and sometimes the selection would be sparse. I was often met with the "you need to preorder to secure" type of thing, which I don't really wanna do anymore ever again lol. And a while ago I tried buying some specific boots, calling the store, emailing, etc to no avail lol. Could've been a covid thing though

Okay take this with a grain of salt:

Can only speak from the two locations in nyc but the vibe is super nice. Obviously pre-pandemic era it was a little more aggressive on the sales pitch and I only bought the fragrances at that time. But post-pandemic I went back for some trousers (cause I must have brain worms lmao) and the vibe has really relaxed.

I never received the "you need to preorder" thing but I guess it's cause I'm not a big spender anyway. That being said they typically never had a lot of the jackets in my size for reasons of "this style usually sells out faster" etc etc. I was hunting for that boxy black blazer from the cosmic cruiser collection. Oh well lol.

 

[Fulton St Critique]

Okay take this with a grain of salt:

Can only speak from the two locations in nyc but the vibe is super nice. Obviously pre-pandemic era it was a little more aggressive on the sales pitch and I only bought the fragrances at that time. But post-pandemic I went back for some trousers (cause I must have brain worms lmao) and the vibe has really relaxed.

I never received the "you need to preorder" thing but I guess it's cause I'm not a big spender anyway. That being said they typically never had a lot of the jackets in my size for reasons of "this style usually sells out faster" etc etc. I was hunting for that boxy black blazer from the cosmic cruiser collection. Oh well lol.

The store on Madison is beautiful

 

[susseinmcswanny]

(cause I must have brain worms lmao)

As a fellow sufferer, if you ever find a cure please let me know

 

[Uemarasan]

Can we though? Celine is/was close to approaching 2 billion euros in sales. Clearly someone is purchasing it, and at current Celine prices it certainly isn't a customer looking for the cheap alternative. I'm not saying the customers that are loyal to the other brands have strayed, rather; he has someone buying the product. Exactly what categories they are purchasing in, I don't know, as it isn't defined, but I wouldn't call his Celine a failure.

No, it isn't the "high fashion" forward thinking brand people had wanted it to remain, as it was under Phoebe. As someone pointed out earlier, being a commercial success doesn't exempt a designer or anyone from criticism, but I don't think the LVMH suits care so much.

Well, the economic gap between the rich and the rest of the world continues to grow exponentially, so I wouldn’t be surprised if there are quite a few customers of luxury fashion out there who have more disposable income than they know what to do with. One more label other than Chanel or Dior would barely make a dent in their bank accounts. It’s like hardcore gamers, most of whom have both a Switch and a PS5.

I’d be interested to know the percentage of Celine customers who buy most of their clothes from Celine instead of some other label.

 

[SophiaVB]

The only thing i find kinda annoying about the Madison Ave store is that they make you weight outside so they can maintain 1-1 contact with SAs. I understand why, but it feels very height of COVID to wait outside the store when it's relatively empty. I understand moreso if it's Chanel, LV etc in Soho in terms of number of people and trying to reduce window shoppers but that location doesn't warrant it.

 

[volft]

@volft, appreciate the info...the interview excerpts were particularly enlightening

 

[Mutterlein]

Ok, don't stone me.....

but....


I LOVE Hedi's womenswear for Celine. LOVE LOVE LOVE it.

No, I'm not talking about those juvenile, Mango/Topshop looking lookbooks and runways shows that are kind of cringey. I'm talking about the clothes. On a rack. In the stores in Midtown and in Soho.

It is the discreet charm of the bourgeoisie. Bon chic bon genre ease and effortlessness. An utterly impeccable assortment of tried and true classics.

It's not fashion!
How dare you?! *slap*
It's a wardrobe!

It's for the rich b*tch who doesn't a give a flying f*ck about whatever bullsh*t Balenciaga is peddling or whatever dipsh*t duds Gucci is trying to trick her into wearing. Conservative? Yes. But also practical, timeless, and perfect.

Volft brilliantly illustrated who these clothes are for (though technically they are not bourgeois).

I love the idea that a woman can throw on a pair of Celine jeans, a ruffled or p*ssy bow blouse, a pair of booties, maybe a large blazer and just look really f*cking good without noticeably wearing any designer fashion.

In this post-pandemic, war-ridden, climate change-devastated world of Instagram clown clothes, I find the discretion, understatement and bourgeois refinement of Hedi Slimane's Celine to be extremely refreshing. Slimane has become like the French Ralph Lauren who I appreciate for much of the same reasons.

TRUE STORY: A group of lieutenants was showing Ralph the latest and hottest from the runways on an iPad. They swipe to Balenciaga and Ralph lets out a roaring laugh and starts slapping his thigh. They swipe to Celine and he stops. He pauses. His eyes widen. He looks to his team and with complete sincerity, in his thick Bronx accent, he asks "Who is this guy? Can't we get him over here to design the line?" His management team is silenced and looks at each other stunned not knowing how to reply.

Anyways, back on topic...

For those of you who pine for Philo-era Celine, move on! It's just a label guys. Why give it any allegiance when the owners clearly don't? Phoebe will be back with a collection soon enough. Can't you find something else to wear at Jil Sander or from Marina Moscone in the meantime?

Or there are plenty of Phoebe's leftovers over at Proenza Schouler

 

[Lola701]

Ok, don't stone me.....

but....


I LOVE Hedi's womenswear for Celine. LOVE LOVE LOVE it.

No, I'm not talking about those juvenile, Mango/Topshop looking lookbooks and runways shows that are kind of cringey. I'm talking about the clothes. On a rack. In the stores in Midtown and in Soho.

It is the discreet charm of the bourgeoisie. Bon chic bon genre ease and effortlessness. An utterly impeccable assortment of tried and true classics.

It's not fashion!
How dare you?! *slap*
It's a wardrobe!

It's for the rich b*tch who doesn't a give a flying f*ck about whatever bullsh*t Balenciaga is peddling or whatever dipsh*t duds Gucci is trying to trick her into wearing. Conservative? Yes. But also practical, timeless, and perfect.

Volft brilliantly illustrated who these clothes are for (though technically they are not bourgeois).

I love the idea that a woman can throw on a pair of Celine jeans, a ruffled or p*ssy bow blouse, a pair of booties, maybe a large blazer and just look really f*cking good without noticeably wearing any designer fashion.

In this post-pandemic, war-ridden, climate change-devastated world of Instagram clown clothes, I find the discretion, understatement and bourgeois refinement of Hedi Slimane's Celine to be extremely refreshing. Slimane has become like the French Ralph Lauren who I appreciate for much of the same reasons.

TRUE STORY: A group of lieutenants was showing Ralph the latest and hottest from the runways on an iPad. They swipe to Balenciaga and Ralph lets out a roaring laugh and starts slapping his thigh. They swipe to Celine and he stops. He pauses. His eyes widen. He looks to his team and with complete sincerity, in his thick Bronx accent, he asks "Who is this guy? Can't we get him over here to design the line?" His management team is silenced and looks at each other stunned not knowing how to reply.

Anyways, back on topic...

For those of you who pine for Philo-era Celine, move on! It's just a label guys. Why give it any allegiance when the owners clearly don't? Phoebe will be back with a collection soon enough. Can't you find something else to wear at Jil Sander or from Marina Moscone in the meantime?

Or there are plenty of Phoebe's leftovers over at Proenza Schouler

I think the discussion was a bit taken to unnecessary proportions tbh.
We are judging a fashion show. What people wears in their daily life is informative but that’s not the point.
Do I want to see a tshirt, a pair of jeans that are always available in the stores on the runway? No!

It was once again the same when Phoebe was there. There were a lot of classic, bourgeois 70’s stuff, particularly in the earlier collections and in the last few collections, she brought back some vintage stuff too. That was something that I could appreciate as a client.
But as a fashion-interested person, the runway shows provided new ideas, propositions and sometimes fun pieces to add to the wardrobe.

I’m sure a lot of men don’t dress like the Celine FW2022 collection, but it was strong enough in ideas that a regular customer can buy a commercial version of one of those sequined jackets…

 

[Mutterlein]

I can totally see where you're coming from with this sentiment. Although both his Dior and Celine fragrances share a constant handwriting, there is a difference between them. His Dior fragrances feel significantly different than his Celine fragrances, so much so that someone who loves his Dior fragrances might not love his Celine fragrances. Although his Dior fragrances share similar ideas as his Celine fragrances, they differ in execution. His Dior fragrances were punchy, loud, complex, spicy, herbaceous, Eurabic, and unisex masculine-leaning; whereas, his Celine fragrances are ethereal, diaphanous, minimalistic, softer, rounder and unisex feminine-leaning. I think the difference parallels the difference between Hedi's Dior Homme and Celine narratives.

His Dior Eau Noire was very bold and artistic, but it was ultimately a commercial failure. He has definitely learned his lessons with his Celine fragrances. After he left Dior, they effectively removed Cologne Blanche and Eau Noire from their lineup. Now that Francis is coming back, he's restoring them back, and putting the church back in the centre of the village.

Ah, yet another brilliant observation and insight!

I did a tournament-style contest where I tried on and wore each of the initial launch fragrances. Reptile was the winner for me.

 

[reese06]

The only thing i find kinda annoying about the Madison Ave store is that they make you weight outside so they can maintain 1-1 contact with SAs. I understand why, but it feels very height of COVID to wait outside the store when it's relatively empty. I understand moreso if it's Chanel, LV etc in Soho in terms of number of people and trying to reduce window shoppers but that location doesn't warrant it.

I think it has more to do with the grab and runs of merchandise now, than covid at this point. It is super annoying though and there have been many times that I haven't gone into a store because of extreme weather conditions and the wait to get inside.

 

[susseinmcswanny]

Ah, yet another brilliant observation and insight!

I did a tournament-style contest where I tried on and wore each of the initial launch fragrances. Reptile was the winner for me.

I just tested nightclubbing and reptile and I like them but omfg they triggered my fight or flight like it reminded me of being in bal harbour in miami dealing with mean judgmental people lol

 

[Frederic01]

LOL.


CELINE

 

[Kimihiro]

LOL.


CELINE

Only Hedi could make dogs pretentious and not cute.

I want to burst to laughter while saying “PORTRAIT OF A CELINE DOG.”

 

[tricotineacetat]

LOL.


CELINE

Some ways to diversify a brand's product offering in the face of revenue growth can be read more or less as a sell out and this certainly leans more towards the former. I find it very tiring at this point to ignore all the blatant mainstream luxury merch for a few tailoring looks here and there per each season that can still remind me that Hedi Slimane once used to be a designer actually spending time in an atelier - At this point, that feels like a mere by-product of his assignment, as bitter as that seems.

 

[tricotineacetat]

I'm interested in Hedi less as a clothing designer, but more as a creative director.

That, in a way, describes the zeitgeist we're finding the fashion industry in right now perfectly, although if I may say so, rather sadly.

It's not very surprising though when you compare that to about 15-25 years before when a lot of the most influential brands were independent companies, or at the very least designed by their namesake founders, such as Jil Sander, Helmut Lang, Ann Demeulemeester, Martin Margiela, etc. - Those designers only ever designed what they believed in and that is how they managed to build up trust with their respective audiences.

Hedi Slimane was once known for his unmistakable, singular vision. I believe creatively, he is still living of the laurels of his Dior Homme years because those were the most uncompromising years, running a niche brand, yet with amazing resources to execute his ideas fully. With the assignments becoming ever bigger, the integrity of that vision has run ever more thin and like I said in my previous message, you have to wonder when last he has spent time in an atelier (frankly speaking, it's not that hard designing 'Hedi inspired' product when you keep in mind for how long Dior Homme and Saint Laurent continued to build on the most successful designs after his departure).

 

[Frederic01]

Only Hedi could make dogs pretentious and not cute.

I want to burst to laughter while saying “PORTRAIT OF A CELINE DOG.”

I thought you were joking there for a second, but then I reread the caption. It literally says "PORTRAIT OF A CELINE DOG". Oh my dear, the pretentiousness of it all. Hedi Slimane is the definition of a designer living in an ivory tower, completely self-absorbed and devoid of any sense of humour and self-awareness. In terms of narcissism, he is giving Patrick Bateman from American Pyscho a run for his money.

At least Phoebe Philo's Celine had a sense of lightness and humour. Which reminds me exactly why Slimane will never design for Chanel. A brand, arguably, composed of the ever-so delicate balance of extreme sophistication and also lowly, crass, pop-culture iconography. Slimane could never.