Most Overpriced Designer?

Genuine question, but why has the price of luxury shoes (and accessories to some extent) increased only slightly over the last ten years, but the price of the clothes has increased astronomically? It makes no sense to me.

The RTW of any major luxury brand is always the lowest performing and smallest margin of sales, yet instead of the brands making the pricing more alluring so that they can attract more clientele and drive sales, it keeps going up and up and up to the point now where RTW is almost impossible to sell, even to the top 1%.
Is it still the case though?
I mean, the simplification of designs and finishings and economy of scales have changed the business.

When Chanel/Dior sells a 850€ printed cotton t-shirt, the margin are insane. When designers aren’t selling denim pieces at less than 1K. There are more people paying full prices for an entry-level designer piece (a pair of jeans for example) than before.

I have said it many times but the principles of the past that were about « the clothes are the accessories for the bags and shoes » are not valid anymore.
They are making money from every category and so the prices are increasing everywhere.

I wonder how much are the margins at Celine. The merch seems reasonably priced for a HF brand (390/450/500) for a tank top or a tshirt.

I find it so insane to spend 300€ on a tshirt. It’s literally the worst part of consumerism.
 
Is it still the case though?
I mean, the simplification of designs and finishings and economy of scales have changed the business.

When Chanel/Dior sells a 850€ printed cotton t-shirt, the margin are insane. When designers aren’t selling denim pieces at less than 1K. There are more people paying full prices for an entry-level designer piece (a pair of jeans for example) than before.

I have said it many times but the principles of the past that were about « the clothes are the accessories for the bags and shoes » are not valid anymore.
They are making money from every category and so the prices are increasing everywhere.

I wonder how much are the margins at Celine. The merch seems reasonably priced for a HF brand (390/450/500) for a tank top or a tshirt.

I find it so insane to spend 300€ on a tshirt. It’s literally the worst part of consumerism.
It's more 550 € the plain cotton t-shirt at Celine and the infamous "Miss Dior" ones (also just printed on white cotton) are at 980 €.
 
I agree with every post saying that high fashion prices are just ridiculous these days; a vanity competition at this point. It’s crazy to think that fashion houses are charging 20-30k for a mass produced plastic item when in 2015-2016 for the same amount you could get a limited edition lesage tweed Chanel suit or a Saint Laurent hand-embroidered jacket.
 
we have tisci to thank for that... id like to think his bambi tshirts started it all with the middle seams at the back. atleast the art was more interesting that the plain logo t shirts these days.
Yes, at least, Tisci added a value to those tshirts. It was a special print that he worked on every season. And the reality was that Givenchy was quite well priced too.

Even Lanvin, Alber did his seasonal tshirts and they were great and fun.

Regarding the prices, there are so many propositions today that it has become almost easy to give up on some brands. There are great contemporary brands. For luxury brands, except for a few, paying full retail price is a no.
It’s been a longtime since I have gave up on Prada/MiuMiu for example. The pricing at Prada doesn’t make sense at every category except maybe perfumes.
 
yoox is everyone's bestfriend specially if you already know the brand's sizing. Definitely doesn't make sense to pay full retail prices these days, specially since online outlets are already quite well stocked with the amount of products these brands are producing. Even if the prices were less in the past, you knew the products were limited to a few from each store and the probability of seeing items you like in the outlet is very slim. Now its almost sure youll find the things you want in the outlet.
 
Saffiano is not rubberised canvas, it's embossed, hard-pressed leather, the cross hatch print is hot-stamped all over the wax/finish that coats the leather. Meaning all visibles qualities of the leather are useless because it's totally covered in wax and the motif is stamped, so they can use the lowest quality hides available and still disguise the flaws under a heavy coat of finish and hotpress it.
The joke is letting the customers think a Saffiano leather is equivalent to high-quality hide while in fact they just went for the thickest and cheapest leather available.
And yes, they ditched the "Made in Italy" long time ago but they think that Italian sounding terms like "Prada", Galleria", "Saffiano", "Milano" etc are enough to make their customers believe their bags have been hand-sewn and pampered by sweet old nonnas in little Tuscan villages since 1913, "an authentic fusion between industrial precision and the refined accuracy of craftsmanship that can only be performed by hand" (Prada.com). And they might be right, what percentage of customers actually check the quality and provenance ?
You're right it's probably a 30x for Saffiano and a 50x for nylon.
But if Sandro is able to make Saffiano from PU, why wouldn't Prada do the same? This is why I assume they even stopped using leather for Saffiano products since ages...
 
But if Sandro is able to make Saffiano from PU, why wouldn't Prada do the same? This is why I assume they even stopped using leather for Saffiano products since ages...
Their website still claimed it's calf leather with a Saffiano treatment.
"The accessory, presented in the large version, is made of iconic Saffiano, a calf leather patented by Mario Prada that is resistant to scratches and water and defined by its crosshatch texture. "
But tbh, after a Saffiano treatment, calf, old cow hides or PU, it looks the same.
And they claimed it's patented, I am sure it WAS then but it's ancient, and everybody can claim, make and sell Saffianos now. No patents last a hundred year.
 
Interesting article about Dior, which mentions the increase in pricing, around 60% from 2020 until now.

Tough luxury market dims Dior’s shine​

Sales stutter at LVMH brand run by Bernard Arnault’s daughter Delphine as luxury downturn deepens

At one of Shanghai’s most exclusive malls, a Dior store is spread across four floors and includes special tea rooms for premium shoppers, in a market that was once associated with rapid growth for luxury brands. But on Thursday afternoon there were few customers despite it being launch day of the French company’s new spring collection in China. “You can’t compare it to before,” said one assistant. “The entire market is like this”. Chinese consumers helped drive an unprecedented boom in the global luxury sector in recent years but a deepening slowdown in the crucial market is now taking its toll on some of the sector’s biggest names. Shares across the industry dropped this week after Dior owner LVMH, the world’s biggest luxury group, reported a fall in third-quarter sales on the back of weakening Chinese demand. Sales in LVMH’s core fashion and leather goods division — the industry bellwether that houses top brands including Louis Vuitton and Dior — fell 5 per cent, the first contraction since the start of the Covid-19 pandemic in 2020 and worse than consensus expectations.

“If you look at growth rates from 2021 to 2023 . . . eventually something has to give. It’s not sustainable. So you have this very, very fast normalisation, and I think the problem at this time is Dior,” said Flavio Cereda, luxury investor at GAM. “Louis Vuitton is holding up OK — not great, but it’s an amazing brand. The rich, the poor — they’ve managed to make products for everyone. But Dior has now become more difficult.” That presents a challenge for Delphine Arnault — the eldest child of LVMH’s billionaire owner and chief executive Bernard Arnault — who took over as Dior CEO at the start of last year following a period under her predecessor Pietro Beccari when the brand’s sales grew fourfold to about €10bn, according to HSBC estimates.

LVMH does not release financial data on the performance of individual brands. But chief financial officer Jean-Jacques Guiony said Louis Vuitton’s sales in the quarter had been “a little bit above the average” in the fashion and leather goods division, “while Dior is a little bit below”. People familiar with the performance say Louis Vuitton sales were down by low single digits, while Dior’s decline was in the low double digits. Smaller Fendi, which had an estimated €2.5bn in sales last year, is also facing a drop in revenues, the people said. “While Louis Vuitton and Dior have tended to trend similarly previously, we see quite a dichotomy now,” analysts at HSBC wrote, adding that “the success of [smaller brands] Loro Piana, Loewe and Rimowa will have been negated by declines in other parts of that portfolio.” LVMH and Dior declined to comment.

The world’s biggest luxury group with a market value of €312bn, LVMH owns almost 100 brands ranging from hotel chains to perfumes, but Louis Vuitton — a megabrand with roughly €22bn in annual sales — and Dior are the two biggest contributors to profits. Together they accounted for about 65 per cent of group earnings before interest and tax last year, according to HSBC. LVMH is not alone in facing tougher times as the industry adjusts after years of record growth, but is faring better than some peers. In central Shanghai, Burberry and Gucci stores were also quiet at the same downtown shopping complex.

Another Dior store in the city’s financial district had more customers for the new collection, although an assistant at one of the company’s make-up stalls elsewhere in the city said footfall was down 20 per cent and that they had reached out to repeat customers to drum up business. Shares in LVMH rival Kering are down more than 40 per cent this year after a series of profit warnings, a rarity in the sector. Sales at its flagship brand Gucci are expected to have fallen 23 per cent year-on-year when the group reports third-quarter revenues next week, according to Barclays. But within LVMH, Dior now faces the challenge of forging a path forward under a new chief executive after a period of turbocharged growth.

“There is some resetting happening,” said one luxury financier, adding that Delphine Arnault’s “energy is not the same” as Beccari’s, and “she’s coming into something that is perhaps a bit stressed after being milked for growth”. Beccari, now chief executive at Vuitton, transformed Dior by moving it into new categories and gaining market share across women’s and men’s fashion, leather goods, jewellery and homeware. During his time at Dior, he was “all about volume, being aggressive, and is very very good at that”, said Cereda at GAM. “But exceptionally strong growth also came from excessive price increases as we saw at Chanel.” Average prices for luxury goods tracked by HSBC have risen 50 per cent since 2019. Dior has raised them the most, according to Bernstein analysis, pushing up like-for-like price tags on “evergreen” products by more than 60 per cent between 2020 and 2023.


Screenshot 2024-10-19 at 9.08.54 PM.png

“At some point in the consumer’s mind, the absolute numbers just don’t make sense,” said the luxury financier. For the industry as a whole “you can no longer just grow through price” — particularly at top brands such as Dior and Vuitton that are now so big that they need to look beyond the ultra-wealthy for sales.

Delphine Arnault has been focused on “long-term desirability”, a person close to her said, investing in the Dior brand through big destination runway shows — such as a recent one in Scotland — and dressing stars from Céline Dion to Lady Gaga at the Paris Olympics opening ceremony. Industry players say a recent investigation by Italian authorities into poor labour conditions at factories working as subcontractors for brands including Dior and Armani has had little impact on customers, but that Dior faces broader questions about the quality of some items particularly in light of the scale of price increases.

“We’re already at a price point where affluent customers have problems with spending power, and there is an issue with the price point at Dior,” said another person close to the group. Analysts at research firm Third Bridge also note that Dior — where Maria Grazia Chiuri has been creative director since 2016 — has not launched a new blockbuster bag since the “book tote” hit the market more than three years ago. “Handbags are the cornerstone of luxury brands, as they are often the most prominent and lucrative category,” said Third Bridge analyst Yanmei Tang. “The lack of relevance with customers in the handbag segment appears to be part of a broader issue affecting Dior’s product line-up.”

A person close to Delphine Arnault said recent launches such as the Toujours bag released six months ago were performing well. Under her leadership the brand has also increased the number of bags it includes in Chiuri’s runway shows to build out the key product offering, with a focus on appealing to the brand’s highest-end clientele. “This is where most of Dior’s growth is coming from,” the person said.

For luxury’s biggest brands, sustaining momentum is a challenge once a certain scale has been reached. After €10bn in sales, “you need an exceptional storyline, heritage and product for a lot of different customers while managing the dilution of exclusivity”, said Cereda. “Walking around any Dior megastore quickly flags what the challenges are today.”
FINANCIAL TIMES
 
This is why I buy dupes with zero shame. It's all made in the same places by the same people anyway.
It depends where it comes from, if bought at a market, you are supporting mafias and organized crime groups, but these factories sometimes have their own shops where the bags of well-known companies are sometimes sold without a logo, if it is not some unique design and you can break various laws.
 
^
If you want, you can find a local manufacturer of handbags and other products, there aren't many of them, but they do exist. The company doesn't spend a fortune on marketing, they have a permanent offer of basic models, so there isn't a ton of overproduced goods that have to be discounted because the warehouse has to be cleared, they have one store where they sell - all their margin. Secondly, there is a market for second-hand goods or you can sew a bastic model of handbag yourself, it's not as difficult as it seems. High fashion companies like to present everything as something complicated, so that customers think they have to pay so much because it's something special.

As for high fashion companies, they spend a lot on marketing, if they wanted to, they could easily afford to produce handbags for 300 euros. At work, I see prices at different stages and the problem is that there is no problem with cutting production costs, but spending crazy amounts of money on shity celebrities is not a problem, despite the fact that they don't always sell...
 
It depends where it comes from, if bought at a market, you are supporting mafias and organized crime groups, but these factories sometimes have their own shops where the bags of well-known companies are sometimes sold without a logo, if it is not some unique design and you can break various laws.
I didn't know that. Probably sold for a banana's worth of the brand's price.

As for the mafias, they seem less greedy than the Arnaults of europe :innocent:
 
As for the mafias, they seem less greedy than the Arnaults of europe :innocent:
Because they have to launder the quality cash from human and drug trafficking, on which they make more money...
He is obsessed with being the richest man. If you listen to some of his interviews, you might get the impression that he lives in the 90s. The French government is also to blame for allowing this monopoly...
 

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