Prada : What Went Wrong?

[bc collector]

What brands can substitute Prada's place?

I hear you, my friend (and my guess your words succinctly sum up the thinking of many of us, here on TFS).
I've said it somewhere in this thread before, the problem with Prada is that is was not born to produce mass-taste and now everything the market wants, apparently, is mass-taste. It simply grew too much to stay true to its primary raison d'etre and the IPO made things worse in that sense.
Everybody talks about environmental sustainability, lately, often just paying lip service to the issue without any real commitment: it's curious - and worrying - that nobody talks about creative sustainability though, or not with the same insistence.

To answer you question: NONE, imo. You have to learn to cherry pick here and there and never with the same degree of satisfaction. In another era, the obvious answer would have been Jil Sander or sometimes Dries, but now?
I get more excited by Uniqlo these days than most "luxury" brands out there...

 

[RaisinBoy]

To answer you question: NONE, imo. You have to learn to cherry pick here and there and never with the same degree of satisfaction. In another era, the obvious answer would have been Jil Sander or sometimes Dries, but now?
I get more excited by Uniqlo these days than most "luxury" brands out there...

It's funny you say that because I started shopping at Uniqlo after Prada stopped producing many of their basics. Also, I'm looking forward to the new +J collection. Anyway, as you mention, Dries is great, but the silhouettes don't quite fit me – I need something rather structured.

The latest thing I bought is a duffle coat from Mackintosh in the most beautiful shade of jade. It has a very distinct, Prada vibe.

 

[bc collector]

What brands can substitute Prada's place?

I forgot to mention Marni, but that too went down the drain with Risso's appointment.

 

[Lola701]

As someone pointed out in this thread earlier, the demise of Prada the brand is like losing a friend.

You see, we all fell in love with Prada because, ultimately, the clothes were an intimate insight into one woman's mind. Even in menswear, you wore her ideas and her ideals of beauty. Prada was a strange, unprecedented mixture of the bourgeoise, the intellectual, the frivol, and the fashion-forward. And then, of course, there was the development of materials that added to the complexity to each piece.

And I'm really sad that this kind of Prada is dead. To me, a European customer who wants a sophisticated, yet exciting wardrobe, Prada simply doesn't offer anything anymore, sans a few basic pieces (which are still perfect, however.)

In all honesty, I don't know what happened a few years ago. First, I think we should admit that Pavesi was ultimately the creative brain of the brand, bringing Miuccia's ideas to reality.

Second, let's face it, Miuccia and Bertelli love money. By the late 2000s, Prada was already a huge corporation, and they wanted to grow even more, so the diluted the brand's DNA to create more logoed products for the 500+ stores worldwide, including every provincial city in China. That was a mistake. If they had stayed smaller, more exclusive, focused on the mature customer, Prada would retain their customer base and would now reemerge as one of the most relevant brands while having a decade of authenticity behind them.

Third, S/S 2011 happened. Since then, almost all collections were a desperate attempt to emulate the huge media and commercial success. But S/S 2011 happened in a very defined time, right in the middle of a worldwide crisis, and it was the relief the world needed back then. I still think the F/W 2019 Frankenstein collection is the worst one she has ever produced, comparable maybe only to F/W 2018. But let's face it: Gucci et al. have that Prada banana collection on every mood board. Arguably, no other collection in recent history was such a trailblazing success. Even Metro, a free newspaper here in Central Europe, dedicated an article to the platform brogues back then.

Put it all together, bring in GenZ, Instagram, and Jeff Goldblum in the Fire-Island-short shorts, and S/S 2021 is just the disaster we all should have expected.

The question now is: What brands can substitute Prada's place? I am asking out of practicality because as a man who loves fashion and dressing up, there aren't many exciting things happening on my radar at the moment.

You know what’s the most frustrating about Prada? The boutiques and Miuccia!
When you go to the boutiques, you can find some archival pieces always part of each new seasons. This summer I saw on their e-shop SS2004 pieces. Then I wonder why instead of just releasing it, they don’t take the principles of that collection to do something fresher!?

The other thing is Miuccia because indeed, she can dress and for the past few years, what she presented felt totally disconnected to what she believes.

In the interview with Raf, when she talked about her uniform and when Raf talked about the way she dressed, I was confused because the collection wasn’t reflective of that. I don’t think I’ve ever seen Miuccia in logos. I don’t think I’ve ever seen her not play with the codes of bourgeoisie and bad taste...

Where to shop as man who loves Prada? I don’t know...
I feel like this concept of the ultimate brand is kinda dead. Even in womenswear. My ultimate brand for a longtime was Balenciaga by NG. It was just for me...From Jeans to t-shirts and from dresses to coat. I felt inspired too by the very expensive pieces I couldn’t afford. I even had the luggage line.

Today, that one brand that solves problem is not a thing anymore (even if Hedi does it in a way). When it comes to basics, i feel like COS and Uniqlo have just take the spot! When it comes to knitwear, I think Jameison of Sheitland is good and JWA too.
I think it’s really about taking pieces here and there now. It has been for a longtime but now more than before!

 

[Reggie63]

As someone pointed out in this thread earlier, the demise of Prada the brand is like losing a friend.

You see, we all fell in love with Prada because, ultimately, the clothes were an intimate insight into one woman's mind. Even in menswear, you wore her ideas and her ideals of beauty. Prada was a strange, unprecedented mixture of the bourgeoise, the intellectual, the frivol, and the fashion-forward. And then, of course, there was the development of materials that added to the complexity to each piece.

And I'm really sad that this kind of Prada is dead. To me, a European customer who wants a sophisticated, yet exciting wardrobe, Prada simply doesn't offer anything anymore, sans a few basic pieces (which are still perfect, however.)

I think we are all in mourning. All the sarcastically scathing sentiments echoed through these threads really is just a manifestation that we all feel a great loss since Miuccia Prada holds a special place for all of us. When it became more and more apparent that Manuela Pavesi is the backbone of the brand's reputation as taste maker, it really does seem like a loss, with a return of Prada in fighting form seeming quite impossible. Instead of making us see new facets of beauty and talk about ideas worth pondering, we see that the only message the brand wants to discuss is that money is king and its best to scream how much you have of it through their lazy designed clothes.

Speaking of Prada basics, even these have taken a hit. I love Prada tailoring but even the basic minimalist stables have been plastered with that triangle or logo that it makes them ridiculous. And honestly, with the recent price increase, it doesn't seem worth it anymore. The same crewneck sweater from 580€ to 750€? No thanks.

I've been thinking about brands that would take Prada's place. I take it that Prada's minimalist tendencies resonate with you - it does with me. I focus on brands that have this at their core and refuse to fully sell out regardless of trends. An obvious brand would be Jil Sander. I know that the forum hates the current JS for its expensive COS status and obvious Céline references but they still create beautifully made pieces with uncompromisingly luxurious materials that it seems a shame to dismiss the brand completely. Pick and choose I suppose.

For accessories, I love Pierre Hardy's minimalist and futuristic footwear. Pure design and quality construction. Honestly, Prada men's footwear really lacks in quality, especially given the exorbitant price tags.

At the more affordable end, I am quite excited for +J. For all Jil Sander's problems with commitment, she does stay committed to her ideas about absolute quality and fit. Other minimalist brands I respect for their commitments to important ideas (sustainability, ethics, transparency and traceability) are Filippa K, Harmony, Asket and to an extent, APC and Aspesi. Ultimately, I think it's our turn to imbue meaning to the clothes that we buy and support those that champion ideas that resonate with us.

 

[YohjiAddict]

Everybody talks about environmental sustainability, lately, often just paying lip service to the issue without any real commitment: it's curious - and worrying - that nobody talks about creative sustainability though, or not with the same insistence.

Totally and that's why the 90s were the golden age of creativity, there was a market for brands that were clearly not for everyone and did not have mass appeal as one of their goals. It's been said before but it's truer now than ever, Prada has been too succesful for its own good, as have many brands whose idiosyncratic image and products have become more and more diluted with each passing season.

It's those brands in the middle that can afford to be distinct and propositive. You start seeing the advantages in growing a label horizontally like the japanese have done or the reason why diffusion lines, as crappy as some might be, were a thing in the first place.

 

[jeanclaude]

Helmut Lang must be laughing a lot these days...

 

[GivenchyHomme]

They either need to tone it down and market themselves strategically, or start innovating again. Instagram, blogs, and influencers are great for 5 minutes, but what comes after that?

It looks like someone finally woke up.



prada.com

 

[RaisinBoy]

Yes, they did, and you can even see it in their store offering. While the logo persists, they've created a really great store collection for SS21 – for men, at least. There are some beautiful pieces, from shirts with minimal (yet exciting) prints to desirable bags and interesting sneakers.

I wonder if this is a new strategy to use the runway for hype and then fill up stores with reasonable clothes (which I think is pretty stupid), or if the Miuccia & Raf debut collection was a hiccup, and they'll continue in a different direction.

While I hope for the latter, I fear that won't be the case.

 

[Lola701]

Yes, they did, and you can even see it in their store offering. While the logo persists, they've created a really great store collection for SS21 – for men, at least. There are some beautiful pieces, from shirts with minimal (yet exciting) prints to desirable bags and interesting sneakers.

I wonder if this is a new strategy to use the runway for hype and then fill up stores with reasonable clothes (which I think is pretty stupid), or if the Miuccia & Raf debut collection was a hiccup, and they'll continue in a different direction.

While I hope for the latter, I fear that won't be the case.

But they have always done that. What they changed recently was making the runway collections more visible in the stores. Sometimes, some pieces (quite commercial) from the runway shows were only produced through special orders. I have FW2015 in mind. The pre-collection and menswear were produced and quite available but the Runway FW15 RTW was almost nowhere to be seen. I never got the "producing 1 suit for the London store" when you have international clientele in Paris.

They have been relying heavily on Nylon in recent seasons compared to maybe 10 years ago. Before, Prada was mostly about black nylon, classics and archival prints...

 

[velvetandsilk]

They have been relying heavily on Nylon in recent seasons compared to maybe 10 years ago. Before, Prada was mostly about black nylon, classics and archival prints...

They are pushing this nylon because is cheap textile, also is a very tough but we knowe price is more important for Prada.

 

[Phuel]

Their strategy seems to be push all the signatures in their most basic, commercial-friendly designs to optimize profits: It’s very business 101... And unfortunately— other than the environmental/sustainable gimmick of the nylon being made from plastic trash collected from the oceans (of which they just have to include for the product’s description LOL), there’s nothing innovative about the fabrication nor the design. It’s all so tired same old same old: A classically-cut nylon blazer sold as made from plastic trash culled from the oceans for +$2,000??? …The most basic tote in classic saffiano Prada leather for +$4,000???? The Prada nylon of the past were couture-like in their innovation, construction and fabrication (I have nylon pieces from the 90s - 2010s and they remain supreme compared to the basics of this era). This era's nylon and prints do look very…cheap.

Absolutely not feeling this campaign— nor the very basic designs masquerading as a return to minimalist, archival staples within. And this campaign is just a xerox-copy of their 1986 campaign. It’s all… nice enough but so marketing-by-numbers: It’s Stepford Wives soullessness. And don’t care that Meisel shot this— it’s still same old same old banality that belongs in an outlet billboard. This is not the legendary Prada branding of yesteryears. This is all so outlet-level of mediocrity for the masses.

 

[helmutnotdead]

ouch!

 

[susseinmcswanny]

I am starting to sustain such an Fing negative attitude towards these people. This is so mind boggling to me. Corporate greed is getting way too ahead of itself here. Why can't anyone on the design team literally just study the creative processes of the brand's past to move forward? We have all seen with our own eyes how wonderful the designs used to be year after year after year. The evidence is there. And those collections were still priced high and SOLD for a huge profit. So why are we getting sh*t like this? The only explanation I can think of is greedy execs relying SOLELY on the legacy of the brand to make as much money as they possibly can. How much money do these people really need? Almost all of the current designs scream that profit was the main inspiration behind them. Just because I desired Prada 10 years ago does not mean I will gobble the bait here and stay on the hook. I really dgaf about plastering a company's name on my forehead to make myself feel temporarily liked by idiots on instagram. I may be a n00b but I would imagine that if they could just bump the thought of making money down to maybe at least #2 under #1 of imagination in their creative process, they could produce something interesting and desirable and end up coming out on top. None of us DESIRE objective greed. Thats all I see here. I'm fed up with this

 

[GERGIN]

I am starting to sustain such an Fing negative attitude towards these people. This is so mind boggling to me. Corporate greed is getting way too ahead of itself here. Why can't anyone on the design team literally just study the creative processes of the brand's past to move forward? We have all seen with our own eyes how wonderful the designs used to be year after year after year. The evidence is there. And those collections were still priced high and SOLD for a huge profit. So why are we getting sh*t like this? The only explanation I can think of is greedy execs relying SOLELY on the legacy of the brand to make as much money as they possibly can. How much money do these people really need? Almost all of the current designs scream that profit was the main inspiration behind them. Just because I desired Prada 10 years ago does not mean I will gobble the bait here and stay on the hook. I really dgaf about plastering a company's name on my forehead to make myself feel temporarily liked by idiots on instagram. I may be a n00b but I would imagine that if they could just bump the thought of making money down to maybe at least #2 under #1 of imagination in their creative process, they could produce something interesting and desirable and end up coming out on top. None of us DESIRE objective greed. Thats all I see here. I'm fed up with this

You're definitely not a n00b on here and you've made some great points that speaks to what most of us on the thread feel.

It absolutely has to factor down to the execs and you can see their influence on almost every garment of the most recent collections (for me I first saw this in S/S 2017). I'd say it's dangerous territory for any creative designer to enter in to a major fashion house unless they want to sell their creative soul to the devil that is greedy corporates.

 

[Reggie63]

Their strategy seems to be push all the signatures in their most basic, commercial-friendly designs to optimize profits: It’s very business 101... And unfortunately— other than the environmental/sustainable gimmick of the nylon being made from plastic trash collected from the oceans (of which they just have to include for the product’s description LOL), there’s nothing innovative about the fabrication nor the design. It’s all so tired same old same old: A classically-cut nylon blazer sold as made from plastic trash culled from the oceans for +$2,000??? …The most basic tote in classic saffiano Prada leather for +$4,000???? The Prada nylon of the past were couture-like in their innovation, construction and fabrication (I have nylon pieces from the 90s - 2010s and they remain supreme compared to the basics of this era). This era's nylon and prints do look very…cheap.

Absolutely not feeling this campaign— nor the very basic designs masquerading as a return to minimalist, archival staples within. And this campaign is just a xerox-copy of their 1986 campaign. It’s all… nice enough but so marketing-by-numbers: It’s Stepford Wives soullessness. And don’t care that Meisel shot this— it’s still same old same old banality that belongs in an outlet billboard. This is not the legendary Prada branding of yesteryears. This is all so outlet-level of mediocrity for the masses.

Nothing really new to add, but I just want to share. Your post made me remember of this video in youtube and this vlogger was talking about her designer bags, and her very first was a 90s era Prada nylon bag - and she proceeded to talk about how that bag defined the fashion and the mood of that time, and how the minimalism, modernity and optimism for the future during 90s (of which Prada was a big part of) created such a beautiful fashion moment that a lot of us who were following fashion at that time are very much aware of and sorely miss.

And yes, I have to agree that even the nylon bags (read: the entry level items) during this time, up to early 2010 were so innovative, interesting and certainly reflected whatever Prada's fashion message was. Even simple messengers back then were so crisp, clean and modern and were really contributing to the overall brand image and message (its exactly like the achingly gorgeous and chic Prada skincare designed by Karim Rashid - true to the brand's innovation and commitment to modernity...back then).

But now, it's so soulless and boring. Uninspired basics and ideas everywhere. I don't know what I was expecting, since we all saw the banality of SS21 Men's and the stale and outdated gimmickry of SS21 Women's streamed into our homes during this pandemic. I was looking through the website for close-ups of the clothes, and its even more uninspired. Take that stupid triangle away, and it genuinely looks like something you can pick-up from the fast fashion giants - which actually makes the stuff you can buy at those places better.

Like susseinmcswanny, I too am fed up with this.

 

[Phuel]

^^^ It’s become this numbed adamancy at this point how such once design visionary brands— Prada, Givenchy, Burberry, Dior, Balenciaga etc have dumbed down so much that they’ve become indistinguishable from any other mid-range, outlet offering. I despise that Prada triangle: I can’t imagine anyone over the age of 15 to wear it so stupidly emblazoned on their blazer or dress… It all looks like childrenswear.

The typical marketing template for these corporate brands in the current era is to churn out the most mundane of basics with hugely recognizable logo/monogram saturation—and offensively overpriced to boot, all supported by a cast and PR blurb of “inclusivity and diversity” visuals. This is the exact marketing template for consumer-range brands that remains the staple for budget catalogue/flyers (minus the ridiculously expensive pricetags). High fashion is no longer leading but following far far far behind the mid-range department stores; Just take a gander at the offensively soulless, dismal campaign for Burberry that looks like a rejected shoot for Benetton. This Prada campaign doesn’t fare any better as far as I’m concerned. More than corporate greed and manipulation, I’m more offended by the blatant laziness of it all. (I’m convinced Steven’s team shot this banality and he just directed them while cozying up in his NYC apartment watching Netflix.)

 

[susseinmcswanny]

I needed to come back to this thread to make sure I’m not stupid bc I had an in depth discussion with a few SA’s today and I felt totally gaslit lol. I don’t know what I was expecting bc they obv can’t speak negatively in any capacity about the products they’re trying to sell, but they were NOT receiving any sort of constructive criticism of what I thought has happened over the past like 10 years. It seemed foreign to them that I wasn’t gushing over anything. It was the most odd conversation. Talking to them kind of left me feeling like this brand is solidified dunzo as we know it. If they don’t get any criticism from press or customers, and they continue making a ton of money, nothings gonna get better unless somebody miraculously decides they are done selling out

 

[velvetandsilk]

IMO old customers went to different company. This is main reason why they don’t get criticize. Few days ago I saw teenage girl which had a turtleneck and puff waistcoat, of course with this ugly logo and LV mini backpack- this kind of people, now is their customers.
The most ridiculous for me was, when I saw on Prada website three pack T-shirts on sell.

prada.com

 

[FelipeV]

IMO old customers went to different company. This is main reason why they don’t get criticize. Few days ago I saw teenage girl which had a turtleneck and puff waistcoat, of course with this ugly logo and LV mini backpack- this kind of people, now is their customers.
The most ridiculous for me was, when I saw on Prada website three pack T-shirts on sell.

This packs has been out there for a while (I think I've seen them in net-a-porter years ago) Same with other brands. The text is just cringey.

To me the nail in the coffin has been Prada jumping in the logomania trend. I remember when the brand use to be leader in trends, now they're just followers... of TikTok and brainless influencers. I mean, I could never imagine seen this Damelio girl in a front row