Riccardo Tisci - Designer

[tourbillions]

who is influenced by Tisci today?

Demna was obviously influenced by tisci's streetwear... and you have brands like vetements, fear of god, off white, amiri. All of them look like babies of Tisci's Givenchy. And he was the culprit for logo-tees like bambi. Designer sneakers was also a tisci project.

Atleast for menswear, you can still wear his street wear and the cut, the fit and material will be 10x better and you won't look out of place with what is sold today.

 

[Kanzai]

I don't like Tisci, who knows if he's ever been considered an "auteur". But Kanye West, Virgil Abloh, Kim Jones, Amiri, that ex Missoni guy (Grazilo something I don't remember the name) are 100% Tisci disciples.

 

[PDFSD]

Demna was obviously influenced by tisci's streetwear... and you have brands like vetements, fear of god, off white, amiri. All of them look like babies of Tisci's Givenchy. And he was the culprit for logo-tees like bambi. Designer sneakers was also a tisci project.

Atleast for menswear, you can still wear his street wear and the cut, the fit and material will be 10x better and you won't look out of place with what is sold today.

Disagree where Demna fits in the school of Tisci influence ,

as Demna whole vetements is based of literally margiela and rave culture eastern europe german dutch white euro sub cultures has more in common with raf simons (hoody and graphics and margiela fan boy etc

graphic punk logo symbols etc raf was doing already years before tsci AW2001-2002: RIOT! RIOT! RIOT! is a easy collection to remember /google


Tisci is italian and into latinos and brazilian masc NY/LA gang presenting male archetype (getto subcultures) , that's why rappers took on his stuff when Kanye started to promote it .

Riccardo Tisci was appointed Creative Director of Givenchy in February 2005
designer sneaker was a thing before tisci: Prada Linea Rossa (originally known as Prada Sport) was established in 1997 way before tisci even started at givenchy,
miu miu fusion sneakers , Gucci even under Tom Ford had sneakers in show and well sold (even before Tom in 80´s gucci had hype sneakers that was adopted by black culture, balenciaga later with nicolas arena sneakers etc margiela sneaker for hermes was popular for womens collection FW 1998 as part of Martin Margiela’s first collection for the house.

tisci looked already outdated in is time because it was already referencing older helmut lang and raf etc but now gym bro´s could wear it, that was the only difference and with the added tacky graphics that were dark but cringe and wannabe.

it was a pop pre packaged version of what came before.

 

[Kanzai]

^^^ Pretty sure Jun Takahashi (Undercover) and NIGO used graphic punk logo, grunge/alt-rock references before Raf. Raf is iconic since he's always been that artsy highbrow crowd's darling.

 

[PDFSD]

I still enjoy quite a few of those earlier Givenchy shows, which were pretty straight forward and chic, and have therefore aged better than the streetwear-inspired part that would later define the overtly commercial, merchandised part of Tisci's later Givenchy.

Regarding the overdesign aspect - Some of Nicolas' often-referenced Balenciaga shows were in their own right very much overdesigned and in that regard, decorative and not more purposeful. The same accounts to some of Helmut Lang's most sought-after vintage pieces between 2003-2005. I really don't see a clear 'better', more the fact that Nicolas' ongoing success gives his design legacy a different legitimation than that of other designers, whose critical acclaim did not translate to commercial success.

oh yes Nicolas played with assemblage and patch work and scfi and folklore 70´s and 80´s its different than overdesign which to me his is LV is now where there is no retrain in the look or silhouette. (same as tisci work)

nicolas work changed once he discovered vintage Koos van der acker (dutch designer) patchwork Knits and designs but also Coogi (australian brand )knits worn by rappers Biggy smalls and bill cosby in 80´s

i do see the difference of why Nicolas was better done and even Helmut lang versions ---concept to back up the visual of the process.

Also because they have restrain, Tisci version is decor for the sake of look why its a problem to me also with Blazy

Nicolas and Helmut Lang lets call it to keep it simple over design, is a result of processing a idea, a research and they show the process in final work often why the designs look asymmetric and not finished as if frozen in process, whereas Tisci is done to decorate as end result to be interesting but its empty because the process as result of having a concept is not made its simply a means to get a look.

NG even mentioned it in show interviews that he found Koos work that inspired the FW collection and prior when he copied Kaisik Wong without crediting he said even then it changed his approach to design even more even if few collection before he did the deconstructed reconstructed wedding dresses per example.
but the idea off assemblage became stronger factor in his designs.




pics ebay , vogue , pinterest, koos van der akker, cosby show, coochi etsy

Tisci looks at past work of helmut and nicolas but does not do his own research or concept he used already finished work to reproduce versions of it with a added theme on top.

there is soooooooo much of HELMUT LANG in Tisci work will take me a few hour s to show all the stuff i remember but i really don't want to revisit Tsci work it aged so bad i like to keep my mind pure of those designs

but even the saint Helmut Lang S/S 1991 “ Mother Mary” T-Shirt is a clear niche example of many more ideas he adopted.


grailed

even the archetype helmut lang urban man Tsci took lots off but made it more bronx lol

firstview

 

[PDFSD]

^^^ Pretty sure Jun Takahashi (Undercover) and NIGO used graphic punk logo, grunge/alt-rock references before Raf. Raf is iconic since he's always been that artsy highbrow crowd's darling.

pls research and let us know ..i dont go off feeling or pretty sure too easy in the conversation making claims

i love Jun Takahashi i have still his stuff and his hermes kelly special bag adv is iconic
was obsessed with his jeans and nike collab




nigo sorry dont care what he did not my taste

 

[Kanzai]

^^^ I mentioned NIGO since him and Jun are BFF, they are both from that Ura-Hara streetwear gang.

 

[PDFSD]

^^^ I mentioned NIGO since him and Jun are BFF, they are both from that Ura-Hara streetwear gang.

they can be lovers even but i judge based of work........ nigo is like pharrell too POP toy hypebeast incel masking for me lol one murakami is enough in the world

 

[Phuel]

Riccardo is very much of a specific time in fashion that’s best left in that past. His women’s was solid, even good— and maybe even very good with the HC, for the fashion era he reigned in. But I’ve come to be annoyed by his men’s: Just ripping off Helmut’s designs wholesale— and styling it in Gaultier’s aesthetic wholesale, just with a predominately handsome macho Brown cast distracted us briefly at how lazy his Givenchy menswear was. Then along came his Burberry which really proved how limited— or just plain lazy he was, other than arrogantly changing the label’s distinct typeface to the definition of blanding. I have no fondness for nor ill will towards him in retrospect, just that he was very much of a specific time in fashion. And if he wishes to make some effort now to work again then start your own damn label, Riccardo: TISCI looks and sounds really good as a label.

 

[Squizree]

Didn't Tisci give us the horror that is "Ye"? (After they obviously f*cked)

He's definitely had an influence, just one that nobody wanted. Which is a shame because it downplays what he could do.

 

[Steddycam91]

I can maybe see Riccardo's influence in...the mens casting for Demna's Gucci? That buff ginger model that Demna just had on the catwalk was sort of giving Riccardo at Givenchy vibes.

 

[youthinasia]

I can maybe see Riccardo's influence in...the mens casting for Demna's Gucci? That buff ginger model that Demna just had on the catwalk was sort of giving Riccardo at Givenchy vibes.

Tisci had MEN in his shows. Ugh, time to revisit Givenchy.

 

[HazJW]

Tisci had MEN in his shows. Ugh, time to revisit Givenchy.

He also had Sean Cody p*rn stars, what a guy...

 

[Alquimista]

I think the biggest influence Riccardo had on fashion was in the ressurgence of streetwear and the inclusion of streetwear in the high fashion conversation.
The Givenchy FW2009 menswear collection was a game changer for fashion as a whole. The collections that followed also.

As far as his womenswear, he is not really one designer of « a silhouette ». He had themes that were very personal, influences that are very personal and that he mixes in a particular way that it could be difficult even to copy with subtlety.

And compared to the designers who were as influential as him, he never produced a school of design.
The designers who came up from his studio never managed to shine on their own at brands where their voices could matter.

It’s a bit like Alber! Who is influenced by him? No one.
The same with Karl. Yes in some ways, his legacy lives on at brands he designed (it’s impossible to not reference him at Chanel, Fendi or Chloe) but as a designer, who is influenced by him? Nobody.


I hope his current issues don’t mean the end of his career but I think Burberry was a bit of a mistake as a career path. Maybe motivated by money and how huge the machine is but Riccardo is really a HF designer.

People (not you) are so dramatic about his Burberry. I mean, it was not a career ending disaster, it simply wasn't right.

Lola, idk I see something special in his shapes, honestly. Not just that but various ways of dealing with cut, print, embellishment that are his own.

@tourbillions was demna influenced by Tisci or did he just enjoyed the wave of streetwear?? I would say the same thing about Kanye, but Kanye actually took some things from Tisci - not successfully but that's another thing.

 

[PDFSD]

I can maybe see Riccardo's influence in...the mens casting for Demna's Gucci? That buff ginger model that Demna just had on the catwalk was sort of giving Riccardo at Givenchy vibes.

the big difference is demna is mocking (or in his mind reflecting current times) with a stereotype even that ginger model body is not the same muscle type build that Tisci used.
also big difference is context Tisci actually finds his models hot and sees them as a celebration of male beauty archetype´s not as social commentary.

Demna ´s ginger gym bro model (Gavin is his name) represents the current gym bro /incel manosphere /internet culture archetype, he is pale and not classically handsome,
While in same show he has the looks maxing version of gym bro /incel manosphere /internet culture archetype thats has good jaw line and is classically handsome in the all white look.
These are all deliberate details of his archetype mockery fashion castings.
Demna partner husband is emo skinny so privaly its not even his taste or beauty standard to be with such an archetype.

Tisci models where more of the 90´s male supermodels healthy athletic but more emphasis on latin and racially mixed ideals and confronting it with high fashion design.
these men where Tisci ideal and he even try to look more like them by getting into the gym etc and constantly partying in brazil and ibiza with these types.

the beauty and ideals projected are not the same thing, same as hedi skinny model versus a pilates princes body ideal just because they are both skinny does not mean they mean or represent the same things or lives style´s ideals.

we are talking about fashion here context matters , details matter allot.

 

[Xone]

the big difference is demna is mocking (or in his mind reflecting current times) with a stereotype even that ginger model body is not the same muscle type build that Tisci used.
also big difference is context Tisci actually finds his models hot and sees them as a celebration of male beauty archetype´s not as social commentary.

Demna ´s ginger gym bro model (Gavin is his name) represents the current gym bro /incel manosphere /internet culture archetype, he is pale and not classically handsome,
While in same show he has the looks maxing version of gym bro /incel manosphere /internet culture archetype thats has good jaw line and is classically handsome in the all white look.
These are all deliberate details of his archetype mockery fashion castings.
Demna partner husband is emo skinny so privaly its not even his taste or beauty standard to be with such an archetype.

Tisci models where more of the 90´s male supermodels healthy athletic but more emphasis on latin and racially mixed ideals and confronting it with high fashion design.
these men where Tisci ideal and he even try to look more like them by getting into the gym etc and constantly partying in brazil and ibiza with these types.

the beauty and ideals projected are not the same thing, same as hedi skinny model versus a pilates princes body ideal just because they are both skinny does not mean they mean or represent the same things or lives style´s ideals.

we are talking about fashion here context matters , details matter allot.

both have questionable taste...

 

[PDFSD]

both have questionable taste...

100% agree taste fueled be insecurities always end up being a toxic end result is the lesson ......

 

[Kanzai]

the big difference is demna is mocking (or in his mind reflecting current times) with a stereotype even that ginger model body is not the same muscle type build that Tisci used.
also big difference is context Tisci actually finds his models hot and sees them as a celebration of male beauty archetype´s not as social commentary.

Demna ´s ginger gym bro model (Gavin is his name) represents the current gym bro /incel manosphere /internet culture archetype, he is pale and not classically handsome,
While in same show he has the looks maxing version of gym bro /incel manosphere /internet culture archetype thats has good jaw line and is classically handsome in the all white look.
These are all deliberate details of his archetype mockery fashion castings.
Demna partner husband is emo skinny so privaly its not even his taste or beauty standard to be with such an archetype.

Tisci models where more of the 90´s male supermodels healthy athletic but more emphasis on latin and racially mixed ideals and confronting it with high fashion design.
these men where Tisci ideal and he even try to look more like them by getting into the gym etc and constantly partying in brazil and ibiza with these types.

the beauty and ideals projected are not the same thing, same as hedi skinny model versus a pilates princes body ideal just because they are both skinny does not mean they mean or represent the same things or lives style´s ideals.

we are talking about fashion here context matters , details matter allot.

Yo this is such a weirdly fun topic because I genuinely couldn’t give less of a fck about Demna’s or Tisci’s actual fashion, but their casting and their standards of male beauty are actually kind of worth yapping about.

I remember Phuel going off like 10 times about how Demna keeps cosplaying as mid-western dads— sloppy, slightly overweight, very much the kind of generic American man you’d see at any random NASCAR event. And at this point it’s not even subtle that Demna is trying to brand himself as this iconoclast (very Margiela-school), you know, fashion against elitism and traditional model ideals. (God, I hate Godard, but fashion really is full of people like him ). This guy keeps preaching about making luxury “universal” and laidback-y so anyone, any body type, can wear it without overthinking (Armani and Yohji have said the same sh*t for decades), but the way he does it just feels backwards to me. Interesting that smh the highbrow fashion crowd worships him like genius fashion prophet while the normies (the ones who might be highbrow in other fields but give zero f*cks about fashion) just roast him nonstop.

To me Demna has that Michael Haneke / some extreme Japanese New Wave directors energy — always lecturing the audience, super self-serious. Tisci, on the other hand, at least feels more honest about the type of male ideal he’s into. I’d say Rick Owens leans pretty gym-bro oriented as well — a lot of dark cult designers tend to skew heavily toward that macho energy (style zeitgeist bros).

 

[FashioNarrating]

I'm afraid the more refined side of Tisci's output (personally I liked the way he juxtaposed fluid draping and sharp tailoring, as seen in the Fall/Winter 2009 collection for Givenchy, probably my favorite from him) often got overshadowed by loud novelty prints on sweatshirts, the casting choices, his obsession with catholicism, random sportswear elements and embellished 'naked' dresses. A lot of the things he has done have been very of-the-moment, which obviously made them seem passé once the moment passed.
On top of that, the Givenchy tenure ended rather unceremoniously considering how big it was, his Burberry era wasn't a great success anyway (though I loved the final middle finger to the company via that goth mermaid show, he must've really traumatized the management with than one lol), and with the court case going on he is hardly going to be celebrated as a role model.
One thing I'll say is that his faible for Hispanic culture - most notably Latino men, as well as Arab men - possibly encouraged people like Willy Chavarria and Charaf Tajer of Casablanca to do their thing and own it.

 

[Phuel]

Didn't Tisci give us the horror that is "Ye"? (After they obviously f*cked)

He's definitely had an influence, just one that nobody wanted. Which is a shame because it downplays what he could do.

Now that you’ve mentioned his relationship with Kanye… I’m starting to feel a tad fond of his Givenchy— not for his designs, but for what he was able to do with the label by bringing high fashion to hip hop: Under Riccardo, it was a label that served as this unofficial high fashion gateway for that demographic that looked and felt organic to both genre, with Kanye as that unofficial ambassador who was most praising of the high fashion and its gay CDs, to a culture that wasn’t too fond, to say the least, of the gays. Unfortunate of what Kanye’s become, but he really was that musical and even cultural pioneer of a time that was so unabashedly a stan of high fashion— and that included its gay creatives. And frankly, Kanye was, and would likely be, a much better talent as a CD and designer than many now installed at the majority of once great labels. (…Not sure if his hissyfits and tantrums were always prevalent, but he really was a part of something in fashion that was shiny and new at the time. Unfortunately, people devolve for the worst; just take a gander at currentday Candace Owens…)

(More than ripping off Helmut— of whom he blatantly cut/paste for his Burberry men, he stole wholesale from Gaultier’s A/W 2003 men's for his entire Givenchy men's tenure: The suit blazer with the varsity shoulders and kilt suitng in particular are so 1:1 Gaultier knockoffs-- just slightly repurposed with a hot Bronx-y cast as opposed to Gaultier’s hot skinhead cast. He is a talent with his women’s of course, but that he really needs to learn to steal more discreetly if he decides to come back with menswear.)


Vogue Homme A/W 2003