Your fur style - please read thread guidelines in post #1 before posting

[VainJane]

But if you really question yourself like example: If there was a fire and you could save or your dog, you have owned for years or a little girl you have never seen before in your life, who are you going to save...? I'm gessing most people would choose the child?

Screw the little girl...I'd hand her a map and tell her she's on her own. I'm saving my dog damnit. I kid you not, I really would choose my dog over a little girl (the little girl can open a door, I don't think many animals can).

With that said, I hate PETA and while I could never personally wear fur, I also respect someone's right to wear fur.

 

[kanita]

People shouldn't be made to feel like what they do isn't good enough when it isn't 100%, because it's still better than not caring about anything. It's good to minimize one's impact on, for example, the environment. There are a lot of statistics to show that if everyone cut their meat consumption by only 10%, it would reduce pollution and use of resources such as water. So if someone recognizes that and decides to eat less meat, the 10% is good and it's worth doing. If someone drives a car a bit less to cut down on air pollution, it isn't hypocritical that the car wasn't sold and replaced with a bike. If someone eats meat but won't wear fur, they're responsible for killing fewer animals. Calling that person a hypocrite is like saying it's wrong for them to not wear fur.

I understand people try to help, even if it is a little, but with hypocracy I mean the way you feel and think, so if you think eating meat is a natural thing for humans to do but feel wearing fur isn't that is ok, but respect that other people may feel that wearing fur is fine. I personaly don't care if more or less BREEDED animals die, it wont hurt the ecological system.
I understand there are many things we would like to change, I for instance don't eat chocolate or any product that contains cacao because on almost all cacao farms there are slaves, usually children,working. I know I will not stop slavery, and I know there are more products that are questonable. People should do what they want, I only thing in western society people have gone a little to far in beliving animals are our equal. I always think in extremes, like my example because thats when I'm most honest.

 

[kanita]

Screw the little girl...I'd hand her a map and tell her she's on her own. I'm saving my dog damnit. I kid you not, I really would choose my dog over a little girl (the little girl can open a door, I don't think many animals can).

What does the little girls abilaty to open the door has to do with the fact that you would choose the dog?

 

[fashionista-ta]

And I think it is hypocrite to say you're against fur when you eat meat and eggs and wear leather. It is basiclly all the same. You don't need fur, no but you also don't need leather and meet.
And there are a lot of people who say the think people and animals should be treated the same way, and that people are no beter than animals. But if you really question yourself like example: If there was a fire and you could save or your dog, you have owned for years or a little girl you have never seen before in your life, who are you going to save...? I'm gessing most people would choose the child? So ask yourself again...
The diverency between 'wild' and 'breeded' fur is that you destroy nature by hunting for animals, which is the same as vandalism.
But there is an exeption, for example African tribes that hunt for a living, that is there culture and I can not judge someones culture.

Well let me join VainJane, I'd save my dog first. I have made a commitment to my dogs, and I have a responsibility for them that I don't have for anyone else. If it were my child, that would be different ...

 

[kanita]

Ok, but if it was your child/sister and someone who could safe her would choose her own dog, what would you think of that person/how would you feel?

 

[Brazilian Girl]

But if you really question yourself like example: If there was a fire and you could save or your dog, you have owned for years or a little girl you have never seen before in your life, who are you going to save...? I'm gessing most people would choose the child?

That question is not really relevant, I mean what are the odds of such a situation to happen? And we can't really know what we'd do until it does happen and frankly, probably (hopefully) none of us is ever going to go through something like that.

You can't really base your life decisions on some hypothetical situations that are probably never going to happen. Well at least I don't.

It's like asking you "if you were stranded in a deserted island with your best friends and there was no food, who'd you eat first, friend #1 or #2?" And then you say you'd eat friend #1. Would it make any sense if friend #1 never spoke to you again? Not really.

*

I think people have the right to chose to wear fur, people have the right to do anything really. And I also think I have the right to say what I think.
And if I saw someone wearing fur I would tell them that I don't think they should buy any more fur. Same way the other day I told a man who was about to kick a stray dog in the face, that that wasn't nice. Same way that, if I see someone buying something that was made by exploited Asian children, I would tell them I think they should not buy something like that again.

I don't mean forcing them to believe in what I believe, I'm not telling them what's the "right" way. It's simply stating my opinion about it and showing them the other side of the matter.
If I tell and explain someone how so many animals are literally tortured for their fur, and they still say "yeah but I don't care, I love fur", I'm not gonna say "but can't you seee it's wrong?!". I'm gonna be upset about their choice to support animal cruelty but unfortunately I can't expect them to see things the way I do. But I'll always try and show people the other side too, so they can judge by themselves and chose properly.

 

[tott]

But meat is an age old industry that will never die. It's been part of our diets since human kind and it won't change. Supply and demand. All we can aim for when eating meat is that we buy organic, support companies that don't rely on cruelty.

I absolutely agree that organic, ethical production is the way to go.

But what about fur farmers that treat their animals good, kill them painlessly? I could wager that most high quality producers are doing this. Stressed, mistreated animals usually don't have great fur... Cheap, low quality fur is much more likely to be "unethical".

Generally speaking, I think the meat industry is actually causing animals more pain and treats them worse than fur farmers would...

 

[Brazilian Girl]

But what about fur farmers that treat their animals good, kill them painlessly?

I'd still feel kinda bad for taking an animals life so I can "look elegant" or whatever. Well I even feel bad for taking an animal's life in order to feed myself!
It's kinda sad 'cause even if the animals didn't suffer, they usually kill the mothers and leave little offsprings to be orphans and stuff ...

 

[fashionista-ta]

^ Your right to wear fur ... my right to value my dogs above some other people. They are completely dependent on me, and I take that very seriously.

The meat industry where cows and pigs are concerned is actually really good. Several major fast-food companies are sponsors of a slaughterhouse report card that ensures the humane treatment of these animals. Because they are such huge buyers, 85-90% of everyone uses these report cards and methods. What it involves is lots of things you and I would probably never think of unless you have tons of exposure to animals. They are graded on how quiet the animals are (if they're bawling, they're upset and frightened, and they get downgraded for that). Also whether the animals keep moving--if they stop, they're scared. Animals don't really have the judgment that we do--they're just as afraid of little threats as big ones. So one thing they do is remove shiny reflective metal strips on the ground--cows are scared of those. It was never going to hurt the animal, but it's considered inhumane because it scares and upsets them.

So I would kinda bet that the meat industry (at least beef and pork) is better than most anything else because it has this really great system.

I take my fur in the form of my gorgeous long-haired dogs I find fur to be pretentious in my warm climate for sure, and probably not a good example of mindful consumption. But in the scheme of things, I'm far more upset about Hummers. Fur doesn't directly contribute to global warming, it's a renewable resource ... it could be much worse. Wal-mart is far more upsetting than fur.

If people who want to consume conspicuously weren't buying fur, it's not like they would be sending the $$$$ to Mother Teresa instead. Would diamonds be better? There's another great example of something I dislike much more than fur ... conflict diamonds and the pure evil that is deBeers

 

[kanita]

It's like asking you "if you were stranded in a deserted island with your best friends and there was no food, who'd you eat first, friend #1 or #2?" And then you say you'd eat friend #1. Would it make any sense if friend #1 never spoke to you again? Not really.

For me that is not the same, nor will it ever be the same, because we are talking about human beings. I will never ever kill and eat my best friends, or any other people for that matter. And yes, I know that for sure even in that situation, because I know myself. I can not consider animals my friends, my friends can only be human beings.

 

[tifa]

I agree with you tifa that the way animals are breeded are is not the right way, for example the food animals are fed is desquisting and also unhealthy for the animals and humans. I understand and respect people who refuse to eat meet/ wear leather/ wear fur, also if people for example eat meat and do'n't wear fur. BUT, what I think is hypocrite, is that people don't respect the choises of other people. If you think wearing fur is wrong, don't wear fur, but don't throw blood/paint over other ones fur. I will not try to change your mind, I don't see the need and I don't think I will succed. I don't need to tell you what is right or wrong, I think people should deside for them selfes what is right or wrong. Human beings are complex indeed, we can do all kinds of things, but I try not to give in in to all those things. (I'm sorry if I sound unclear here, but my English isn't to great) What I mean is that I know our minds can think paradox things, like for example people can kill others if it is from a distance, like if you throw a bomb on a village from a plane and you don't see people die you don't feel like a murderer, but when you shoot someone you feel the quild of killing a human being. This is not really a choice, but a way your mind works, well, in this and other cases I refuse to accept this. To get back to our subject, people have a strange way to reacting on the way animals are being treeted, there are very little people who complain when a fly is being killed, but when a mink is killed for its skin, all of a sudden it is terible. I try to treat and think off all animals in the same way, a dog is no better than a fly in my eyes. And yes I don't consider killing a fly because it bugs me is the same as killing a dog, because a dog is someones property or could be someones property, so it would be vandalism.
(at least in western society)
so my conclusion would be: What you eat and wear is your choice, but respect the choice of other people!
(I have no time to check the spelling, so my excuse if it isn't clear)

Your English is very good. I can understand it fine

I respect your opinions. I respect everyones opinions, as long as they can justify them and you've done that well. I sort of agree, but in a different way. Every being has a place in this world, we should not be cruel for no purpose, we should treat as we wish to be treated. I wouldn't kill any animal unless it was threatening my life but that's a whole other story. But where I differ from your opinion is that there are methods and reasons for killing that are worse than the other and not everything can be put in the one box of being right or wrong. I'm not saying I'm right, it's just how I feel.

The fur industry however is usually a lot worse than the meat industry in standards of cruelty because of the lack of regulation. A lot of the fur trade is illegal. Animals being skinned while still alive in front of screaming hordes of other animals for the sake of a fur lined handbag or a jacket. People who would not normally care about animals are probably more disgusted in the fur industry because of the sheer pointlessness of at all...or maybe the fact its aimed towards the wealthy? There's a lot of class issues there but I don't want to touch on that.

However, regulation in the meat industry doesn't stop some of the awful way animals suffer during it. Turkeys are thrown in pits of water and electrocuted to death and no way is that humane when there are thousands of them still alive, dying slow deaths. There's a level of cruelty in all of it.

 

[fashionista-ta]

^ Thought you might be interested to know, Temple Grandin, the woman behind the slaughterhouse scorecard, is working on the poultry industry next--very badly needed. This is her website: www.grandin.com Btw, she's autistic, and draws comparisons between the way that autistic people and animals view the world. I think she's totally fascinating and really admire her.

 

[tifa]

^ Thought you might be interested to know, Temple Grandin, the woman behind the slaughterhouse scorecard, is working on the poultry industry next--very badly needed. This is her website: www.grandin.com Btw, she's autistic, and draws comparisons between the way that autistic people and animals view the world. I think she's totally fascinating and really admire her.

Thank you for the link, that is really interesting, I'll have a read over it when it's not 2.00am hehe. Karma for you...I hope it worked I am still a bit of newbie

 

[Brazilian Girl]

For me that is not the same, nor will it ever be the same, because we are talking about human beings. I will never ever kill and eat my best friends, or any other people for that matter. And yes, I know that for sure even in that situation, because I know myself. I can not consider animals my friends, my friends can only be human beings.

That was just a random example of hypothetical questions that most of us have probably heard at least once; My point wasn't really whether it's about humans or animals, but about the type of question, that's all... hope I've explained it clearly

 

[allegra]

But what about fur farmers that treat their animals good, kill them painlessly? I could wager that most high quality producers are doing this. Stressed, mistreated animals usually don't have great fur... Cheap, low quality fur is much more likely to be "unethical".

Generally speaking, I think the meat industry is actually causing animals more pain and treats them worse than fur farmers would...

I would guess that there are some who treat the animals better than others, but I think to be in that line of work at all, one has to be pretty detatched. Anyone who thinks too much about the way the animal feels would probably end up changing jobs.

 

[Lovin_It]

I stll say if you but a fur coat and give $10 to charity that prevents HUMANS from starving then on balance you have done a good thing, besides (as I've said before I love fur. Period)

http://www.oxfam.org.uk/

 

[kanita]

Well said, tatika..

Fashion itself could be argued as unnecessary.. but using animals for it is just wrong.

And on a sort of unrelated topic... you guys should try soy milk, it isn't bad
__________________
Let's microwave Barbie.

A lot of soy farmers grow there crops on land where used a tropical forest...now that isn't to goood for nature eighter...

to stay with the topic, I own a rabbit fur scarf, and I love it.

 

[InnocentFairy]

I watched the Heather Mills McCartney video where one furrier was saying how this silver mink's fur was beautiful - well, its the animal that is beautiful and no-one has the right to take away its skin.

I have never wore fur and don't intend to do so - I work as a volunteer for PETA in London and a lot of people think 'oh nutters' - blah, blah...but its true what they say animals are the true fashion victim.

Its just so barbaric that animals are skinned alive as well...but you know, this is a topic I do not really wish to get into.

I am a vegetarian and I do not have the right to take another creature's skin.

So there's my 2 pence worth! Lol.

I will never wear fur.

 

[lmelanie]

i have no fur in my wardrobe....i dont plan on it..im just not a fan of the way it looks

 

[tangerine]

Please remember to stay on topic and refrain from making attacks on, or insinuations about other members. It is fine to state your personal opinion on why you would or would not wear fur, but this is not a platform for arguing any agenda.

If you feel strong disagreement that you must express with another member, please use the PM feature.

Thank you for your continuing on-topic contributions!