A Materialistic Society?

[Lena]

A very interesting IHT article on luxury goods, from www.iht.com

America's take on "new" luxury
By Katie Weisman International Herald Tribune
MONDAY, DECEMBER 5, 2005


..................Yet Myers sees another scenario less lucrative for luxury makers: leasing.
"One big thing we're seeing with luxury is that consumers don't see the need to own anything anymore," he says. The attitude is: "Why do I need to buy a Porsche when I can lease it for $300 a month?"
"The consumers watch what's going on at the Academy Awards with all the borrowed dresses and jewelry. It's not real," Myers continues. "They ask: If the stars can do it at that level, then I can do it at my own level. Why should I make this investment?"

yes, i find leasing much more 'forward' than owning

excellent article, thanks for sharing faust

 

[Phaeton]

thanks faust

looks like I added a few new books to my reading list

I can't comment on the last two books mentioned, but I recently looked through "Trading Up: The New American Luxury" by Michael Silverstein. I didn't read the whole thing because more than half of it seemed to focus on various success stories of companies who have found how to market themselves as "new luxuries" (off the top of my head these are corps. like Callaway golf, Viking ranges, Victoria's Secret, a California winemaker...) He devotes a chapter to each of these stories and I can't say they interested me much. Although if someone is in marketing or trying to give their own business an image of luxury then this might be helpful.

The first couple chapters were good though. They mostly deal with the mindset of middle-class American consumers and the pattern of buying cheap functional items at places like Costco, Walmart, and Target, so that emotionally important items (cars, kitchens, clothes, and recreation) can be splurged on or "traded up."

Having said this, IMO a better read is "The Overspent American" by Juliet Schor which mainly deals with the issue of why so many Americans are working long hours and making large amounts of money, yet still are not satisfied and feel that they can't afford everything they need. And she points out in the book, "it's not just the poor half that feel this way..."

One other book I've read lately which kind of relates to this discussion is "The Paradox of Choice" by Barry Schwartz which makes a very strong argument that after a certain point, more choice does not give us freedom or ease, but instead makes our lives exceedingly difficult. This one deals a lot with the psychology of making decisions and dissects the personality types who tend to find themselves satisfied with their choices versus those who usually agonize and feel regret.

 

[Lena]

excellent recommendations Phaeton, adding up to my to-read list..

i got 'why customers do what they do' by Marshal Cohen, (NPD group)
on McGrawHill but i havent had the time to go through this yet..

 

[chako012]

Good point Phaeton, choice beyond a certain choice has demonstrated to be more detrimental then beneficial. I myself have found myself walking out of stored that present too much "choice".

This "choice" however has also made people more fickle due to the fact that they can find something similar somewhere else. The growing affluence of society has also mean that people are taking what they have for granted as they can always acquire another one with the right amount of money. This attitude has been reflected in our relationships as out outlook in life ahs become more fickle, we take things for granted.

I blame consumerism...!

 

[laboheme]

*bump* ...

I hope it's alright to post this link here....this video segment is sort of on-topic, I think.

especially @ about 5:40


Eckhart Tolle and Oprah Winfrey video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMMCtWHw4Cs

source credit: Oprah.com

This topic has been rattling around in my head a lot lately.

 

[gius]

that's a whole interesting topic in the video itself although just a short mention of consumerism
interesting ideas
thanks laboheme

 

[afterhours]

excellent video laboheme, thanks for posting

 

[MUXU]

oh nice video!

this reminds me of something i was arguing with a friend recently.
i said, most people or me in specific would buy an expensive designer item for general 3 reasons. 30% design, 30% quality and 30% vanity (which includes, the fame of the brand, the context of this particular collection or piece, the exclusivity etc.)

the video reminds me of different philosophies and how some attack other philosophy.
do we really NEED a philosophy to tell us how or what our society is? and how should our world or ourself be governed? it's like that, identifying with a certain 'form'.

btw, eckhart tolle reminds me of the philosopher from 'Vivre Sa Vie' scene 11, in terms of look i mean
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=co-c5gPWfiM

 

[Couture_Tribe]

this is a facinating topic, I just read through every page, why didn't I find this thread earlier??

 

[Bambam]

This is such a great topic.

While certainly fashion is sometimes an artistic expression, it is more often (subconsciously) a symbol of status or place in society.

I actually wrote a 10-page essay on the history and fashion, and one major theme was the idea of conspicuous consumption and leisure. By wearing expensive clothing, you express not only your "value" (how much money you make, how much money you are able to spend on novelty items), but you also are sending a message that by wearing the expensive, flimsy items that you have the luxury of leisure - you can't garden in an expensive outfit.

Very interesting topic, I am glad that I came across this.

 

[gius]

did anyone else watch the youtube video laboheme just posted? any comments? that idea of ego eckhart is talking about... it makes me think of some threads at the forum, like people saying how much they need something or a new look or how much they buy but the buying just never stops... etc.

 

[MUXU]

ego...yes eckhart explained parts of what ego is but there are still some aspects i can't quite get.

but...same old words. don't let your possessions own you, you own your possessions.
so...i guess when someone says how much they need or want something, maybe sub-conciously they need or want it because without it, others will not know who they are or even they themselves don't know who they are. i guess this is what being materialistic is about. not really about buying or owning a 'thing', but identifying one self with a 'thing' or 'things' as part of who they are. or expecting to find who they are in a 'thing'

it's nice to occasionally buy a piece of garment that you think is truly beautiful and that you enjoy the time while you wear it. there is nothing wrong with that.
with the average income from a working person, he or she should be able to afford one good piece designed by a creative mind (aka a fashion designer) once in a while. but i guess the idea or fear that we are getting fed by from the media or some controlling authority saying if we don't buy the latest trendy piece, we loose our status as fashionable people in society is...meh
so people resort to having many pieces from mid-chain stores that have garments come as fast as they go.
it's this fear...

 

[pucci_mama]

This is such an interesting topic...

I will have to read though it, before coming back.....

 

[lollicandy]

Wow! I read all 23 pages in this thread in one go. Such a shame some members who posted no longer are here, I would have liked to hear more from FrugalSquirrel (spelling?) too.

I have been really struggling with this lately. I think I've gotten over the first step, denial! And am now pondering what action to take with regards to my own personal habits. The proliferation of Polyvore, (with links to buy the items and prices), personal style blogs, and chictopia offering "prizes" if you get enough chic points or whatever...I find it slightly repugnant now. It not only encourages mass consumption but enables it too. To the point where you can go from seeing an item to buying it in just a few seconds! No windowshopping and contemplating required. And I'm not crazy or a hypocrite, I freely admit that I used to buy things because I saw a lot of other people having it, but now that I'm slightly older I think I am mostly immune to it although I do stumble here and there.

I think sometime back I fell into that vacuum of accumulating "stuff" to while away time or get my mind off whatever problems I was having and one day I realized my room was filled! I mean, literally of just "stuff." I could barely walk around in it. There was an Oprah episode (I can't stand her but I couldn't help watch this episode) about "hoarders." And an Intervention episode about a woman who is a compulsive shopper. They actually really frightened me, because it made me think am I like that? Which was good, because it made me reflect and think about how much I accumulate things. And now I feel like I have really changed the way I think about why I buy things and the difference between wanting and needing (which doesn't make me perfect, just that I have noticed a huge difference in my habits before and after). I started out small with toiletries, trying to scale back on all the different lotions and potions to fix everything and ended up with 1 bottle of castile soap for almost everything And it made me realize maybe I can keep going with bigger things (clothing, food etc.) I still have a lot of thinking to do and action to take, but I find my life just that little bit easier.

I guess I don't really have anything new to add, but everyone made such great points so thank you for all the enlightening discussion

 

[sojou]

I have that ^ exact same hoarding problem. My room is overflowing. Apart from when I need to get changed etc I avoid my room because it makes me feel so guilty. But then I still go out and buy more stuff...yet I always seem to rotate the same clothes/makeup so I'm hoarding all these new things that I think I'm going to wear/use one day. I've been mustering up the courage to fix up on this front and this thread has given me some inspiration


.

 

[fashionknows]

Wow! It's so interesting to read everyone's opinions about our world. I think that as long as you're comfortable with who you are and in control of what you spend, you don't really have to become materialistic and like some of you, I don't think it's a bad thing. It's human nature and we all want to belong to some type of association.

 

[fashionista-ta]

^ There's more to life than stuff, though, and it's the really important things

MUXU, if you have any questions, please say so, and maybe we can clear them up here I myself was confused about "ego" for many years & I think I've actually got it now.

I quite like Oprah myself ... she does have her moments, but when you get right down to it, I can't think of anyone who does what she does in the world today (or yesterday, come to think of it). And it's not just in the West, it's all over the world that people are listening. Gayle was traveling in the Middle East recently & was mobbed with "Is Oprah here?!" I don't watch her show since I don't watch TV, but I subscribe to the magazine and I get her XM channel. As far as I can tell, it's better than the show (at least to me).

 

[gius]

I rewatched that Eckhart+Oprah vid ^^

Another word I'd use for when he says "identifying" with (something)
would be attachment

ie. It is okay to have likes and dislikes and opinions and thoughts
but make sure you don't get 'attached' to it

I do remember some times ago identifying with certain material things, and I found myself not liking that thing anymore. In that case I had to 'change' my views... I guess it's important to remain flexible

--

I'd like to ask about something else though
for example you don't exactly like crowds so you don't always go to parties, social functions
Is it ego saying you dont want to go?
or is it something part of the real you?
If I 'make' myself go, I do end up hating it/feeling lousy. Is that ego though?
It's easy with material things, but like the woman who was known for being beautiful in the video and is now old and has a hard time letting go, it's harder to analyse these non-material situations

 

[lesypersound]

More on consumerism from Tolle on Oprah.
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=vKerJp8k32M

(Part 8 of the originally posted youtube on pg22--Re:a shopaholic mom)

I really like the suggestion that people go out and appreciate nature and don't pick flowers or take physical things away from the environment -- deny that compulsion to acquire things you think are pretty or of value but have no real purpose for you to take home w/ you. I liked this example of flowers because it's less obvious than things you can buy in a store...

And later on in the video the point is made that when people are concerned w/ placing their understanding of themselves among people that they meet or know of (celebs) it's always the Ego at work (YOU as inferior v. superior, wealthier v. poorer, better dressed v. less stylish, more articulate v. less articulate, authentic v. inauthentic, more spiritual v. less spiritual, exceptional v. mediocre).



guis, i think the example you're asking about isn't Ego... why must you force yourself to do anything? In the video above a question was brought up on whether correcting bad habits is just another form of Ego at work (e.g. still assigning importance but this time a negative one in need of a solution)--Tolle's answer is that there shouldn't be a need to feel forced to correct bad habits because they ought to fall away once you stop giving them the false importance you assign to them in the first place (at least that's how i interpreted what he said, ha).
SO, I think the consideration of forcing yourself to go to a party you don't want to attend = Ego... but if you're neurotic about crowds or make blanket statements about all get-togethers and incorporate that into your identity then that'd be Ego too.

 

[fashionista-ta]

I rewatched that Eckhart+Oprah vid ^^

Another word I'd use for when he says "identifying" with (something)
would be attachment

ie. It is okay to have likes and dislikes and opinions and thoughts
but make sure you don't get 'attached' to it

I do remember some times ago identifying with certain material things, and I found myself not liking that thing anymore. In that case I had to 'change' my views... I guess it's important to remain flexible

--

I'd like to ask about something else though
for example you don't exactly like crowds so you don't always go to parties, social functions
Is it ego saying you dont want to go?
or is it something part of the real you?
If I 'make' myself go, I do end up hating it/feeling lousy. Is that ego though?
It's easy with material things, but like the woman who was known for being beautiful in the video and is now old and has a hard time letting go, it's harder to analyse these non-material situations

Yes, you can tell Tolle is very influenced by Buddhism (among other things), and the concept of attachment is very important there. The idea is to avoid suffering by avoiding attachment to "me, my, and mine." Rather easier said than done

In answer to your question, I would say you're an introvert and that's why you feel that way. I see that as part of your soul's mission in this life, and really nothing to do with the ego. I'm an introvert too, and I had this very strict fundamentalist upbringing. When I'd go to a party or a bar, I'd come home feeling so lousy, and think that I must have done something wrong All it is, is that the energy has been sucked out of you by the crowd, and you need to recharge your batteries by being alone. I find it easier to socialize with a small group. I never understood bars until I found out 75% of the population are extroverts