Abercrombie & Fitch

Mutterlein said:
You raise many excellent points. And I agree. But for me the problem is when you actually interpret the aesthetic and how it affects its mass youth customer base. It's a a highly misogynistic, anti-intellectual, agist, and racist aesthetic. It promotes a hyper-sexualized, young, caucasian, with unrealistic anatomy. It presents that as the ideal, the standard. If you don't agree with that standard then you don't need to buy the clothes. But it's breeding a large amount of teenagers within this culture. I'm not sure that is a good thing.

Actually, it is kind of the American ideal. I don't think it promotes "hyper-sexualized" or "unrealistic anatomy". Our marketing promotes a healthy body standard. The models in our stores aren't stick thin, like say, the models in Lanvin, D&G, or any other high fashion ads. The models in the marketing have a thin, but healthy body.
As for being "hyper-sexualized", it's the same with any brand. We don't advertise, but look through the ads of any magazine with half or even completely nude girls modelling for brands. Teenagers could get this image from anything they pick up, but if you actually go inside an Abercrombie and look at the clothes, they really aren't that revealing. Compared to Forever 21, Wet Seal, and other stores, A &F actually has the more conservative clothing.
 
I actually used to work there, at the infamous 5th avenue store. I loved it! They actually are careful about who they hire because they are the store. I was a model. You have to be slim, pretty and cheerful. Jefferies always used to visit us.
 
Another forum I visit had this post:

Originally Posted by metaoblivia
I used to manage a A&F store in Miami. I worked for them for 5 years. About 2 years ago, they had a national conference in which they announced their plans to finally go abroad. Tokoyo, Paris, and London were the first cities mentioned in the plan. I left the company shortly afterwards, so I don't know if that's still in action. But it's probably easiest to just go to the US if you reallly want Abercrombie clothes.
Bit of gos about A&F - yes they do only hire 'good-looking' people. Managers are told to scout for recruits, and it's not unusual for the store manager to take one day a week to go to a local college campus looking for suitable candidates. They have large group interviews once a week, and during the interview several employees will take a good look at the interviewees and then dicuss with the manager later on who the most attractive ones were.

A big part of manager's job is their ability to recruit employees with the 'abercrombie' look. A&F isn't so concerned with actual managing ability as they are with image. I had a wonderful assistant manager working under me, and was told point blank they would never become a store manager because they didn't fit the image properly.

The people who work night shift or stock don't have to be as good looking as the people on the floor. They are kept off the floor at all costs, in fact. They do get paid more, however.

Someone mentioned how the night crew would take out rulers and boards to fold. That's completely true. A&F is anal about the way the floor looks. Lighting, the dressing of the forms, the set up of the tables and walls - it all has to be exact. We would get write ups at least once a week outlining where everything should go, how much of each size should be out, the order it needed to be in, which folding board to use, how it should be lighted. We use to have to fold the jeans and then give them crinkles in just the right places for presentation. As a manager, I put in 65-70 hour weeks regularly. And if someone important was coming that week - forget it. One night we didn't leave until 10am the following morning. It was hell. I'm so glad I don't work there anymore
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source: boards.ie

Personally, my favourite A&F memory is when I went to the store in South St Seaport and was greeted just inside the door by a hot guy wearing nothing but board shorts - that was his job :blink:

I then went up to the girls section and it was so damn hot, you'd swear they didn't have air conditioning. I asked one of the girls (jokingly) if they kept it warm so the female employees could work in teeny denim skirts and halternecks....she said "yes", completely seriously, almost as if she was shocked that I had rumbled their evil plan :lol:
 
coffeeandasmoke said:
Actually, it is kind of the American ideal. I don't think it promotes "hyper-sexualized" or "unrealistic anatomy". Our marketing promotes a healthy body standard. The models in our stores aren't stick thin, like say, the models in Lanvin, D&G, or any other high fashion ads. The models in the marketing have a thin, but healthy body.
As for being "hyper-sexualized", it's the same with any brand. We don't advertise, but look through the ads of any magazine with half or even completely nude girls modelling for brands. Teenagers could get this image from anything they pick up, but if you actually go inside an Abercrombie and look at the clothes, they really aren't that revealing. Compared to Forever 21, Wet Seal, and other stores, A &F actually has the more conservative clothing.

Whose ideal? Surely not feminists, racial minorities, those older than 30, etc....It's a fallacy to assume that it is an "American" ideal. Is that what all Americans should be aspiring to?

High fashion labels do exert a lot of marketing sway, but considering most of their market is older than 30 and includes mostly mature women with a large expendeble income it's a different story. Abercrombie targets young impressionable teenagers. Rather than promoting diversity or feminine empowerment it focuses on a caricature of a hyper sexual caucasian youth who lives a life of compulsory heterosexuality but with strong homosexual undertones. Minorities are not included in this ideal neither are independent women. Alot of companies use degrading marketing on teenagers but none have been as succesful at turning it into a culture and societal norm. I personally think it's a little scary, genius, but scary.
 
i think "hypersexualized" is an apt term to apply to ambercrombie.
not long ago they had to pull children's thongs off the shelves as they had the words "eye candy" and "wink wink" on them.
 
I've also been trying to stay away from this thread, but being an almost lifelong resident of Ohio, it's difficult to resist commenting.

First off, during my teenage years Abercrombie played a strong role in turning me away from fashion. Although it was far less focused, I prefered the same sorts of clothing that I wear now- a base of black and white and grey, black pants more often than jeans, never, ever, ever any plaids or check patterns on shirts, minimal logoing etc. I don't know exactly when the change occured, but I remember my dad taking me to an Abercrombie before it was redone as a "cool" store. He remembered it from NY, but it was some awful old men's outdoorsy stuff. I never got over that. Once it got popular in high school (replacing the hideous IOU/Cross Colours stuff people adored at my middle school), I wanted nothing to do with it and, by proxy, nothing to do with "fashion". I didn't realize it at the time, but there were plenty of people (Helmut, for one) who thrived upon just what I wanted in clothes, but this was pre-internet, so I was unaware.

Anyway, I've only been in their stores a handful of times, but I vividly remember that it was IMPOSSIBLE to find anything in shades that I'd be willing to wear. I inquired about this and was told something about how black isn't a positive color, so it wasn't stocked. A quick glance at the website reveals that nothing has changed. So, clearly, this has never been the place for me.

Other members have mentioned how every fashion label markets itself and some fantasy lifetyle that wearing its clothing permits. This is true, but as Mutterlein mentioned, most ads that you'll see in an issue of Vogue or another similar magazine are targeted toward adults who can (ideally) think for themselves- not impressionable teens. Other stores that go after the same demographic may use cute models or slightly provocative photography to catch teenagers' eyes, but I've never encountered anyone who bought into a lifestyle like the Abercrombie kids do. It's not so much about whether the actual clothes are revealing, but the overall image of the marketing. You may buy all of your clothes at Gap or some department store, but these stores don't appear to exclude others who don't fit that mold or give their wearers some false sense of superiority. On one hand, this reflects the success of the Abercrombie strategy, but as many other have mentioned, there's a sinister side to this ideal.

One thing that has always troubled me about Abercrombie is that without the moose and other logoing, it would be (to my untrained eye) impossible to distinguish from its rivals. Skimming sites like American Eage, you'll find the same basic items- "rugged" jeans, wrinkled button down shirts, cargo shorts and khakis and lots of logo t-shirts. Abercrombie's may in fact be constructed better, but for the most part, I don't see why it would be chosen over a competitor if not for the sense of superiority that the marketing breeds.

Unlike more serious fashion labels, you don't see "key pieces" each season, or much change from year to year. This could be beneficial for building a wardrobe, but if those clothes are only appropriate for lounging around the house or sitting on your porch drinking a beer with your buddies, what's the real point? Stores like Target and H&M create excitement (at least in womenswear) by hiring people to come up with interesting, one time collections. Many people on this site and around the world buy from these stores because they provide pieces that they can play with to create truly distinctive styles. There's no room for originality in an A&F collection because it's always the same tired stuff.

I have a hard time believing that anyone buys their shirts there because they are intrigued by some design or construction aspect. People who buy Anne D or Etro or Jil Sander or Dior Homme are likely buying into some sort of imaginary lifestyle (whether that be dandy, or rocker or intellectual), but I'd suspect that most of these clients came up with their own image and then, through exploration and experimentation, found designers who thought on that same wavelength. This is contrary to A&F because, at least in my experience, most people who wear a lot of those clothes bought it because it says that it is abercrombie and not because it was the only place that offers a certain cut/fabric/color.

This may need more clarification, but it's an essential distinction. With the A&F model, the company is completely in control and able to dictate what "casual luxury" involves. The customer buys whatever mediocre pieces are released each season just to fit the image. You keep coming back- never really choosing for yourself. It's Abercrombie. It HAS to be good. The other, true designer model leaves the individual in greater control. You are buying a certain house because they happen to have THE dress or THE suit that you've been willing to kill to own since the instant you saw it during fashion week. If that house changes and you no longer connect with the designer, you'll find a new "home".

These are exaggerations. Not everyone who buys Fitch is a mindless drone and there are plenty of people who stay loyal to other fashion houses for status regardless of design or integrity, but since this thread is all about generalities, I think it works.

I was going to get into how I think Abercrombie perpetuates the crisis in American menswear (no age appropriate options for post college, but non-middle aged guys with moderate incomes), but I've rambled on enough for now. Hopefully some of these points will be of interest.
 
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visconti, what a thoughtful post. it hadnt occured to me that abercrombie is peddling the same items season after season. i wonder if ambercrombie's ruehl stores are the same as well.

i just checked wikipedia and abercrombie seems to be cooking up a new store concept to debut in 2008.
 
I'm curious about Ruehl too. I've never been to one of their stores. There's a flagship in Columbus, but I'm rarely there except when I drive through to visit my parents in SW Ohio. The website ads look close to AF. Has anyone seen their collections? Is there anything more formal or does it change from season to season.

I looked at wikipedia to read about that new store and found an interesting tidbit that furthers the idea that apart from the logos, their close aren't (or at least weren't) distinguishable from competitors.

"When the brand was launched in 2000, Hollister had a 'cannibalistic' effect on Abercrombie's customer base. Clothing in Hollister stores was largely identical to that of Abercrombie & Fitch in material, construction and basic design, albeit with different logos and labels, only it was sold at noticeably lower prices. In the following years, Abercrombie & Fitch clothing began utilizing higher-grade materials and construction (and raising prices as a result), to provide more differentiation between the two stores."

It also reminds me of a quote on the Polo website where it emphasizes the pony over everything else. If you're curious, the reason I looked it up was during bar review this summer the most obnoxious speaker I've ever heard tried to make sure that his listeners saw that he was wearing an "expensive" pony logo shirt. To give you an idea of his attitude he repeatedly said things like "When you see a lay person I want you to think of one word: IDIOT. It doesn't matter if they're a priest, a doctor, and engineer or your mother. Layperson=idiot". Thanks to him I'll never buy Ralph Lauren. :yuk:

"What makes Polo Ralph Lauren’s polo shirts special?
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Our polo shirts carry a logo that has represented quality for four decades. Beyond that..."

And about never changing, I've attached two images from the current website. The first is a clearance shirt that's about half off. The second is preview of the exciting upcoming spring collection. Granted, every line has basics that carry over from season to season, but you can do this with almost every item they have.
 
heh. it has almost the exact same wrinkles in each item.

its crazy to me that ambercrombie and hollister items are widly counterfeited in asia. its troubling to me that other countries are buying into this odd view of "all-american-ness" that jeffries espouses.

its even crazier that people in asia are paying top dollar for authentic items.
 
visconti said:
I was going to get into how I think Abercrombie perpetuates the crisis in American menswear (no age appropriate options for post college, but non-middle aged guys with moderate incomes), but I've rambled on enough for now. Hopefully some of these points will be of interest.

Actually, Ruehl is geared toward post college men and women.
 
^ Do you know what they stock? I've never been to a store and the website is very limited. Also, what's the price range? I read somewhere that they had pricey ($800 handbags), but I have no idea if that's fact.
 
from wwd articles, blurbs and tidbits, ruehl is for the post-college student who has lived in abercrombie/hollister for nearly a decade, joins the real world and now has to semi-decide what the hell to wear on their own. mini-skirts that could suffice for wide belts don't work well in corporate america or in most industries, for that matter.
 
visconti said:
^ Do you know what they stock? I've never been to a store and the website is very limited. Also, what's the price range? I read somewhere that they had pricey ($800 handbags), but I have no idea if that's fact.

They have bags there are are more expensive than $800. According to the handbag specialist who tried to recruit me to work at that store, the bags are made in the same factory as LV. The leather was good quality - and it better be for that price.
 
i dont want to say that they are hypersexualized (at least no more so than many other brands today), but I will say that the biggest problem I have with abercrombie is that American's today feel like THIS is fashion, when really all they are doing is going into the store and buying something right off the mannequin. No individual thought required. Everyone looks the same...unique qualities are not celebrated...if you don't have tan skin and highlighted hair, there's no way that varsity football player will find you attractive. and it's true, becacuse they buy into it....

i used to work there, and they also pay their employees very badly.
 
For my entire time in high school, I tended to stay away from the teen stores-Hollister, A&F, AE, Aeropostale, you name it. I wasn't a big fan of the logos and I preferred to go to a place like JcPenney's because I had my mom paying for everything so I wanted to get more for my money, but also because there were great pieces that I knew would probably be seen at school but I was able to make them my own. I kind of had a fear of that stuff because I didn't want to look like the typical person my age.

Now that I am out of high school I'm actually going to give A&F a try. While I don't like some of their clothes and I certainly don't like the prices or the moose embroidery, I find that being able to work with pieces from the stores like that is good. And I like some of their tank tops-I would probably alter them so there wasn't the moose logo at the bottom and then add trims.

I mean I know I'm not the customer a store like that would go for (because I don't have the typical look) but if I'm spending my money there they had better be good.
 
my mom went into a ruehl store in OH and couldnt really see the items in the store...apparently all their stores are really dimly lit.

trista, i dont think the sales are really all that good at A+F. i basically think the entire store is a giant ripoff.
 
Yeah I would figure that the sales aren't great there-we don't have A&F at the mall I work at but we do have Hollister and they don't have sales often at all...I guess it's because they KNOW they have an in-demand product and it's a good move to make the company money. And then you have the perspective of some shoppers, myself included, who want to get more bang for the clothing shopping buck.
 
Ruehl is unfortunately becoming more and more like A&F. When they first opened they had many pricey but interesting items, but in the last year or so they significantly dropped the prices, stopped carrying lingerie and anything in black. My guess is Ruehl isn't selling their leather goods that well, they've stopped making wallets, at least for now. The bags are nice, but for $500 most people, at least around here, would rather go for a more recognized brand. They do still have nice-fitting basics and jeans for $80 (they used to be around $150) and always a lot of sale items (i got a calf hair zebra print wallet for 15 bucks!)
 
I love the leather bags from Ruehl. As for the jeans, they're in the over $100 price range, but they fit really well.
 
If you ask me, a lot of people at my school just wear A&F to fit in, or be considered "cool."

If you look around at my school, people left and right are wearing A&F and no matter what the item is, they'll get compliments on it too... just because it's A&F. Seriously, one time my friend and I were walking down the hall..and she's like "Ew, look at that skirt.." and then she saw that it was from A&F, and she completely changed her mind about it... I think that's ridiculous. A&F is like praised by people at our school, kinda lame. I don't know how to expand much more on the topic..besides that, it's just basically for people want to be considered cool.. or aren't really educated in fashion, I suppose.
 

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