Alessandro Michele - Designer, Creative Director of Valentino

[Lola701]

I agree but on one detail !
Even if Hedi was commercially not an instant hit, it was not a total flop!!! as his direction was clear from day one with stores and Celine Introductory 2018 campaign and key bags that took time to catch on sure but it had an direction and point of view. (Sarah is clueless at MCqueen and also at Givenchy as good of technical designer she is she lacks an complete vision)

Also remember his YSL was still going well so it was not known Hedi even left YSL for most clients (non hedi fanatics).

Celine Introductory 2018 campaign was tone he set from day one till the end of his celine.

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It wasn’t an attack on Hedi ( I wouldn’t dare risking my life over that here on TFS lol) but just an affirmation of facts.

The Alessandro Michele formula for Valentino is in many points similar to what Hedi was doing at Celine. The question on Michele’s case is not about a vision. It’s there, it’s strong and loud. It’s about the validity of that vision. And somehow, as Hedi showed it, the relevance of his work depended also on a slight creative adjustment on his part. Kudos to him for understanding that pushing the groupie wasn’t a good idea. He leaned more into bourgeois or « youth ».
It was also a reaffirmation that sometimes the brand is also important,

And that’s what I wish from Michele.

I don’t know if part of my indulgence for a lot of designers debuting right now is a reaction to the over-exaggerated « hate » they get on TFS but I usually let people have their time and settle their vision in order to have a definitive judgement. For some people, it happens later.
And then again, I didn’t expect anything. I can genuinely say that except for Haider’s debut, I had and have no expectations on what those brands may look like.

I think Sarah’s first collection was OK. I’m a bit confused by the first campaign for the Prefall around female gaze. What that POV will look like with the menswear?

I’ll be able to tell if there’s a vision when her Givenchy will be « palpable ».
I can’t tell if there’s a vision or if I don’t get it or if it’s too early or if it’s simply bad. Some members seems to see that already but I cannot for now.

 

[tourbillions]

I think Sarah’s first collection was OK. I’m a bit confused by the first campaign for the Prefall around female gaze. What that POV will look like with the menswear?

I’ll be able to tell if there’s a vision when her Givenchy will be « palpable ».
I can’t tell if there’s a vision or if I don’t get it or if it’s too early or if it’s simply bad. Some members seems to see that already but I cannot for now.

in terms of vision im also still confused with what they are doing with givenchy. It might be a slow revamping from the more streetwear vision they had with MW. Feels like a lot of teasers so far without really revealing anything, or maybe that's already the vision.

As for mcqueen her vision kept getting stronger. i feel like people who didn't like her mcqueen probably never liked her aesthetic to begin with but the growth in sales says otherwise. They seem to want in your face hits and drastic increase in sales rather than something more organic as she did with mcqueeen. Until now when i wear around burtons mcqueen, i get compliments from random people. Im always surprised when someone recognize its mcqueen.

 

[Creative]

We also have to consider that Hedi was succeeding the most beloved designer of this generation (Phoebe). Literally everyone loved her Celine (myself included) and it was not as easy as succeeding an irrelevant designer like MW.

The image Celine had was super strong and everyone loved her bags, her clothes…

MW at Givenchy though… I don’t even remember a single show.

 

[yslforever]

After the Viva Superstar and Nellcote, now it looks like they’re trying to make the Vain bag a thing

Celine is that you ?

 

[PDFSD]

It wasn’t an attack on Hedi ( I wouldn’t dare risking my life over that here on TFS lol) but just an affirmation of facts.

The Alessandro Michele formula for Valentino is in many points similar to what Hedi was doing at Celine. The question on Michele’s case is not about a vision. It’s there, it’s strong and loud. It’s about the validity of that vision. And somehow, as Hedi showed it, the relevance of his work depended also on a slight creative adjustment on his part. Kudos to him for understanding that pushing the groupie wasn’t a good idea. He leaned more into bourgeois or « youth ».
It was also a reaffirmation that sometimes the brand is also important,

And that’s what I wish from Michele.

I don’t know if part of my indulgence for a lot of designers debuting right now is a reaction to the over-exaggerated « hate » they get on TFS but I usually let people have their time and settle their vision in order to have a definitive judgement. For some people, it happens later.
And then again, I didn’t expect anything. I can genuinely say that except for Haider’s debut, I had and have no expectations on what those brands may look like.

I think Sarah’s first collection was OK. I’m a bit confused by the first campaign for the Prefall around female gaze. What that POV will look like with the menswear?

I’ll be able to tell if there’s a vision when her Givenchy will be « palpable ».
I can’t tell if there’s a vision or if I don’t get it or if it’s too early or if it’s simply bad. Some members seems to see that already but I cannot for now.

heheheh nono i dont feel it was an attack on Hedi as i agree on all but that detail .... all sorry i don´t know how to write nuanced or softer just wanted to get the detail out :-)

true for Valentino x AM validity of vision agree ... Hedi adjusted and it worked, Alessandro is not adjusting and its still not working.

I am opposite i feel to many mid designer get a hall pass and only MGC and VV is easy target to hate on social media at least here i feel a shift of more critique and skeptical on the work not delivering constantly and i feel the examples are contra are stronger than pro for most new appointments so far (of course some we still have to see first show)

But i feel as consumer is one thing and one judges less hard and just buy for what one need and likes for your own life style or personal taste and body etc

Where as when it comes to critical eye on the industry, one can and should be more critical on every aspect of the the fashion landscape past and present and all the players in it.

Sarah never had a total vision at Mc Queen let alone at Givenchy its even harder maybe because its so BCBG house codes if there are any obvious ones!!! she got by at Mc Q because she knows how to cut clothes and do embroidery that is her biggest and only strength so far, its allot already but it not enough for a full brand turnover or repositioning.

till she don´t wow or make a clear point at Givenchy every critique is well deserved and this is for any CD i feel as well justice.

 

[Nimsay]

Sarah has to be doing something right because normies from Nebraska who know nothing about fashion can look at a McQueen garment - not know its designer - and still immediately recognize it is high fashion.

 

[tourbillions]

idc if people think it was cheesy, i want burton back in her 2011-2013 era with the strong themes, strong music and dreamy clothes. loved the fur overload show and the water sirens show from s/s 2012

 

[Avonlea]

idc if people think it was cheesy, i want burton back in her 2011-2013 era with the strong themes, strong music and dreamy clothes. loved the fur overload show and the water sirens show from s/s 2012

The campaigns between 2011 and 2014 were great, I was always excited to see the pictures in magazines and on websites. Later everything got dull and repetitive. Every season they would show the same gothic prairie girl in a different setting.

 

[tourbillions]

The campaigns between 2011 and 2014 were great, I was always excited to see the pictures in magazines and on websites. Later everything got dull and repetitive. Every season they would show the same gothic prairie girl in a different setting.

oh yeahh the campaigns that went with her themed collections were so dreamy as well! like images from trading cards. Unfortunately that gothic prairie girl has hunted me for the rest of her tenure.

 

[Creative]

But i feel as consumer is one thing and one judges less hard and just buy for what one need and likes for your own life style or personal taste and body etc

Where as when it comes to critical eye on the industry, one can and should be more critical on every aspect of the the fashion landscape past and present and all the players in it.

This is so true. I can never judge fashion from a consumer POV. For me one thing are the fashion shows, the campaigns, etc, and another thing is clothing in the stores. I know it’s related but different at the same time.

I love some ugly things and not “good” in terms of fashion (AV for YSL), I think what he does is desirable sometimes and I would like to wear some of it, but by no means I think he is a great designer. To be a great designer you need to have a vision, not just make garments that people might like to wear. Also the proportions at SL are off sometimes and look kind of cheap in terms of finishing.

Or I’d like to have some basics from Tom Ford but in general his shows for his own brand were terrible.

I think you can find nice products almost everywhere in the store, but having a vision and doing good shows is something else.

 

[LadyJunon]

The issue with Burton, Vaccarello and Michele is how one-sided their approaches are. The key really is to find this balance between fashion (the emotion, the image) and product (the material object).

Burton designs strong ready-to-wear, but her proposition as fashion has been very middle of the road. Most of the designs are appealing and well proportioned, but her ideas are all over the place, which compromises the message. McQueen's gothic image saved her, but Givenchy is pretty much a blank slate. She needs to find her idea of what Givenchy is and she needs to find it before people lose interest.

Vaccarello has a very defined idea on what YSL is, but the products are designed in a way that forces the wearer to have a very specific lifestyle. The clothes are either oversized and boxy or gossamer-thin, the bags are non-descript to the highest degree and the shoes are borderline unwalkable. A designer can present whatever farfetched archetype they want for imagery, but the final product should be able to be recontextualised to suit the wearer's needs. Had product development at YSL been more down to earth, they would've be a nice alternative for those wanting grown-up clothes that aren't overly serious or conservative.

As for Michele, he's lacking both. The fashion is trite and the product is lackluster.

 

[Monsieur Cristobal]

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Alessandro, do something like this.

Just to see what kind of result brings honoring the legacy and the codes of the house.

 

[FashionPower]

I don't think the Valentino customer would ever want to be associated with people who normally wear Vans sneakers...
At Gucci he released collabs that actually made sense: Adidas (also done by Prada and Balenciaga), North Face.

 

[tourbillions]

I don't think the Valentino customer would ever want to be associated with people who normally wear Vans sneakers...

we also thought in the past that balenciaga customer would never want to be associated with carrying potato chip bags but here we are.

 

[Norden]

we also thought in the past that balenciaga customer would never want to be associated with carrying potato chip bags but here we are.

Thanks for reminding me that we are indeed in the darkest timeline. Idiocracy’s scenario has been moved forward.

 

[FashionPower]

we also thought in the past that balenciaga customer would never want to be associated with carrying potato chip bags but here we are.

I get your point but it's a bit different though, with Balenciaga you are carrying a tongue in cheek quirky item, it helps adding personality to your look / proposition. It's a fun and totally unserious item after all (pretty much like accessories under Moschino by Jeremy Scott) and it has a purpose.
With Lallo you have a collab with the lowest common denominator in streetstyle / hypebeast just to milk some cash from kiddos and fashion newbies. Vans has never been part of an elevated fashion conversation as per a North Face or an Adidas.

 

[Lola701]

we also thought in the past that balenciaga customer would never want to be associated with carrying potato chip bags but here we are.

Tbh, I’m a former Balenciaga by NG customer and the leather potato chips is probably the only thing I’m tempted to buy from Balenciaga since 2017.
For some reason I’m convincing myself that I shouldn’t buy it but I think I will.

It’s the perfect « conversation type » piece to carry at an event.

Other than that, there’s nothing appealing at Balenciaga. And it’s been a longtime since it’s that way.

 

[eugenius]

Tbh, I’m a former Balenciaga by NG customer and the leather potato chips is probably the only thing I’m tempted to buy from Balenciaga since 2017.
For some reason I’m convincing myself that I shouldn’t buy it but I think I will.

Didn't you mention that you're pregnant? In that case, I imagine that a bag of Cheetos would satisfy you more than a Balenciaga potato-chip bag.

 

[tourbillions]

Tbh, I’m a former Balenciaga by NG customer and the leather potato chips is probably the only thing I’m tempted to buy from Balenciaga since 2017.
For some reason I’m convincing myself that I shouldn’t buy it but I think I will.

It’s the perfect « conversation type » piece to carry at an event.

Other than that, there’s nothing appealing at Balenciaga. And it’s been a longtime since it’s that way.

you should celebrate demnas see now buy now with that potato chip bag hahaha...

 

[Lola701]

Didn't you mention that you're pregnant? In that case, I imagine that a bag of Cheetos would satisfy you more than a Balenciaga potato-chip bag.

Ahah! I have gave birth already but indeed. Not so much Cheetos but I wouldn’t mind some Lay’s or Bret’s potato chips. Definetly satisfying!

you should celebrate demnas see now buy now with that potato chip bag hahaha...

I’m not one to Celebrate Demna lol!
Tbh, Balenciaga is really one of those brand that I would hate to pay full retail price for. If I see a discount, who knows lol.