Grace Jones dislikes Lady Gaga

[xerq]

gaga is a manufactured thing.after no success with her 'goth-rocker' phase she went for the easy route.no one would've known who she was if people weren't saying oh look it's Christina only to hear she had no voice.manufactured goods have no value and gaga will be left behind only for someone younger and more watered down than her to take her place.

i think Jones should've been the bigger person and ignored her.it would've been classier.

 

[jun3machina]

^ Yeah I've never understood this argument either. The argument that says "Why aren't her outfits and styling matching her music?" Wtf, since when was someone not allowed to be both ridiculously outfitted and sing pop music? Just because Bjork and David Bowie (both of whom I love) were both that way doesn't mean anyone has to be.

And let me just point out that as time goes on singers and performers will be more and more harshly criticized and accused of "copying" because eventually all creative ideas will be exhausted.
If Lady Gaga had been born before Grace Jones she would have been the one who "started it".
It's ridiculous how just because someone had done the work earlier it suddenly means that anyone who shows the slightest resonance with their work in the future it means that they are "copying".

actually i think she'd just be a half-a$$ed artist from the east coast and there's no way it would have evolved as much as it has, because so much of 'lady gaga' is someone else before her. i dont think she has it in her to be that original

 

[Squizree]

^ And you know this how? Simply just "deciding" if someone "doesn't have it in them" to be original is kind of an invalid statement, unless you know the person personally.

 

[diorelle]

^ IA. Even if she has taken style cues from the past she still had to work her @$$ off to get to the point she is today. I remember listening to her music before anyone around me knew who she was and just hoping she would blow up and she did. I think she's great at selling herself as a product and when something isn't working out in this case the whole alt. music/rock scene then you change up the act.

 

[TREVOFASHIONISTO]

I think Grace Jones can say what she wants even if it came off as harsh...
I dont think she is jealous at all of Gaga because the people who do know about
her respect her as an artist and an icon...I think she is bafled to why Gaga is recieving
so much attention and love when she is not original...most older artists are all about originality and in this generation its all about copying so I can definitely see where she is coming from...no I dont hate Gaga, but I do think she is a gimmick and she is breeding followers who all of a sudden love fashion and where Alexander McQueen is their favorite designer which is annoying

 

[farou7a]

i dont think grace thought too far about her comments just like etta didnt when she said stuff about beyonce singing 'at last'..
i think they just said what they did and reacted how anyone from their era would?
its that kind of situation all over again, but in a different context.

 

[softgrey]

I doubt I'll ever understand the intense hatred Gaga brings out in some people due to all of her perceived offenses.

Reading the posts in here it seems like the hatred that she's on the receiving end of should actually be targeted at some of her fans. She doesn't claim to be a pioneer, her fans make her out to be one. She doesn't claim to be a genius, her fans treat her like one. She's never been quoted as saying she was the first to do any of the things she's done, nor has she been quoted as saying she's the best at it, as far as I know. I can completely understand hating her because you dislike her music or think she's silly or whatever. I can't understand hating her because some of her fans just don't know better.

As for Grace, while I respect what she's done and love her as an icon as well, this reeks of desperation. Whenever an icon pulls this, like a couple of years ago when Debbie Harry accused Madonna of ripping her off back in the day, it just comes off as a cry for attention by someone who is not as important as they once were. And since some of this is turning into a worship fest for Grace's artistic genius I'd just like to point out that her image was planned and engineered by her and Goude, in case anyone has mistaken it for pure artistry or spontaneous expression. She may have done it first but her look was no less fake or practiced that Lady Gaga's is today.

but you just said it yourself here...
they did it themselves...not with a bunch of hired guns...
and they did it FIRST...so they were original...
not copies...

i think that IS the point of the whole argument...
originality VS imitation...
*ain't nuthin' like the real thing baby!

**and anyone who says that no one is original just proves how little originality there is these days...
that the younger people who weren't around for Grace and Debbie Harry and Chrissie Hynde, Janis Joplin, Hendrix, Dylan, etc...
don't even know what it means to BE original...
so they just settle for copies...cause they think that's the best they can get...

and so mediocrity is perpetuated and will continue indefinitely...
unless people demand MORE...

but they probably won't...
alas and alack...
*sigh*

 

[Scott]

^amen.

honest to the stars,the only person that i see and hear other than bjork that puts so many to shame with her work and her presence is karin dreijer andersson with the knife and her solo work as fever ray. she is as visually extraordinary as she is musically.

 

[rayoflight]

^amen.

honest to the stars,the only person that i see and hear other than bjork that puts so many to shame with her work and her presence is karin dreijer andersson with the knife and her solo work as fever ray. she is as visually extraordinary as she is musically.

Agree with that, there are some others, but The Knife is cool and interesting in many ways.
Actually I until this thread I didn't know Grace Jones was professional singer, I knew about her modeling work and some other things she'd done, but after listening to her musical work on Youtube, I realized I've never heard any of it, except some Corporate Cannibal mixes. And she reminds me of a pop/mainstream version of Siouxsie Sioux and possibly early Nina Hagen. I mean I know about most artists in the 80's, even the slightly underground stuff like My Bloody Valentine, but Grace Jones? Sorry, never heard of that one. Don't know why. And now that I hear about her, she bitching about the newer generation who actually are inspired by her? If Grace is so good, why isn't she more relevant today? After almost 20 years she released new album in 2008 and it failed to make a chart impression and it's really not that good. You can listen to it on her myspace page.
Sorry, if I don't recognize her a major figure in music like most here seem to do, but she's a 80's dinosaur to me, similar to Olivia Newton-John, that has failed to evolve (unlike for example Annie Lennox, Kylie Minogue, Sinead O' Connor, Morrissey, Depeche Mode, to some extent even Green Day, who are recognized by most people today), and now has become bitter and jealous of the younger generation and specifically Gaga. I'm not a huge fan of her either, but at least I know who she is. Just saying...

 

[CrisGalaxy]

I never understood Grace Jone's music... Well a few of her songs are very artistic. Lady Gaga's music is more pop-ish and dramatic. Both women are great in their own ways

 

[Scott]

actually ray of light,she is still relevant. listen to any electro/pop artist and you'll hear many count her influence on them. and people,including myself,still listen to her music constantly. of course she made pop music but she made a pop music that was interesting. and neither did she pander to whatever current trend that was happening during those best years...and she still doesn't. she's always walked her own path.

but to me the biggest distinction is when the lines of influence and inspiration gets crossed and they sound or look like the original.

 

[rayoflight]

I get that, she was a one women freakshow, in the most positive way possible, like the original weirdo. But that's it for me. Not saying she wasn't amazing, and someone who has know her and her music from the beginnings maybe it feels differently, maybe it's because of nostalgia. But for me, she feels too artistic and contrived. Just like Gaga, with only difference, Jones seems a bit too old for that kind of theater.
Maybe I'm missing some important point of all the greatness of Grace Jones, I don't know...

 

[Thanatos]

Chart success means absolutely nothing when it comes to talent and I don't know how you've never came across Grace before, but you have someone like Nina Hagen? I'm sorry you don't recognize Grace for what she is, but I think that at some point people should put aside their personal opinions of an artist. It's absolutely fine if you don't like her or her music, but to say she's irrelevant and to put her in the same category as Olivia Newton-John is a bit ridiculous imo. I don't really know how someone can be too artistic and I don't see Grace as contrived in the slightest unlike Gaga who has to be one of the most contrived people out there.
Grace has natural presence and charisma that transcends age, I actually find it quite funny seeing Gaga try to fake it, hence the forced eccentric behavior, those giant platforms she always wears and all the rest of it. Also it's not purely Grace's music, she's a cultural icon.

btw I completely agree with Scott's comments about Karin.

 

[Scott]

^i completely agree with everything you said.

that's why i don't really understand that whole roisin lumped together with gaga crap. to me,concurring with your comment,there is something that never feels contrived about her. she seems to do things with so much more ease and quirkiness....like it's second-skin or her true identity...you never get this shove it down your throat feeling from her.

 

[rayoflight]

I never said Gaga is less contrived than Jones.
And I never meant to say she irrelevant, I still very well know her other work in modeling and in movies. But Jones doesn't come off to me as natural either, from what I can gather she was one of the many disco/pop artists in the late 70's, early 80's, before she met up with Jean Paul-Goude who created a very striking visual icon together with her (or for her, I don't know), the box hair, the 80's silhouette, that helped her to gain popularity in the avant garde circles in the mid-late 80's. When the 80's fashion ended, she lost it, her image was neither as flexible, nor suitable for the new zeitgeist, neither the grunge part, neither the more minimalistic part. She doesn't appear as natural, it's still is something artificial no matter for how long she's been doing it. But she's still way more original than Gaga or Rhianna. But I've yet to see a female artist that doesn't rely on at least one stylist to create and image (Grace Jones being no exeption) and it's terribly sad that female artist need to have a "striking image" at all to be successful in music business. How many men put on elaborate costumes and grand theatric shows? Elton John? Liberace?
Thats how I see her from my perspective.
And I probably made the huge error of listening to Inside Story first.

 

[rayoflight]

The influence thing is a bit vague too, tbh. I don't have a degree in modern music history, or maybe I don't pay much attention to artists that take musical influences from Jones, but I just don't get it. Her music, except that the really early stuff, sounds just like any other artists from that time in that genre. So I'd appreciate a short lesson in how exactly Grace Jones musical work influenced music. The visual/image impact is clear to me, others, most notably Rihanna and Gaga are inspired by her or just plain copy her, but music and image are to different things, imo.

On other note, how many people in 20-30 age group know about Jones? I did a short unofficial survey, some people (2) who knew about her thought she was dead , others knew her as "bond villain" or Warhol muse or didn't know her at all.

 

[softgrey]

I never said Gaga is less contrived than Jones.
And I never meant to say she irrelevant, I still very well know her other work in modeling and in movies. But Jones doesn't come off to me as natural either, from what I can gather she was one of the many disco/pop artists in the late 70's, early 80's, before she met up with Jean Paul-Goude who created a very striking visual icon together with her (or for her, I don't know), the box hair, the 80's silhouette, that helped her to gain popularity in the avant garde circles in the mid-late 80's. When the 80's fashion ended, she lost it, her image was neither as flexible, nor suitable for the new zeitgeist, neither the grunge part, neither the more minimalistic part. She doesn't appear as natural, it's still is something artificial no matter for how long she's been doing it. But she's still way more original than Gaga or Rhianna. But I've yet to see a female artist that doesn't rely on at least one stylist to create and image (Grace Jones being no exeption) and it's terribly sad that female artist need to have a "striking image" at all to be successful in music business. How many men put on elaborate costumes and grand theatric shows? Elton John? Liberace?
Thats how I see her from my perspective.
And I probably made the huge error of listening to Inside Story first.

boy george, freddie mercury of Queen...roxy music ...iggy pop...
DAVID BOWIE!!!...
ummm...MICHAEL JACKSON...
*sheesh*......


even dudes like USHER put on a big show with dancers etc...
that is what it means to make pop songs and dance hits...

 

[softgrey]

Agree with that, there are some others, but The Knife is cool and interesting in many ways.
Actually I until this thread I didn't know Grace Jones was professional singer, I knew about her modeling work and some other things she'd done, but after listening to her musical work on Youtube, I realized I've never heard any of it, except some Corporate Cannibal mixes. And she reminds me of a pop/mainstream version of Siouxsie Sioux and possibly early Nina Hagen. I mean I know about most artists in the 80's, even the slightly underground stuff like My Bloody Valentine, but Grace Jones? Sorry, never heard of that one. Don't know why. And now that I hear about her, she bitching about the newer generation who actually are inspired by her? If Grace is so good, why isn't she more relevant today? After almost 20 years she released new album in 2008 and it failed to make a chart impression and it's really not that good. You can listen to it on her myspace page.
Sorry, if I don't recognize her a major figure in music like most here seem to do, but she's a 80's dinosaur to me, similar to Olivia Newton-John, that has failed to evolve (unlike for example Annie Lennox, Kylie Minogue, Sinead O' Connor, Morrissey, Depeche Mode, to some extent even Green Day, who are recognized by most people today), and now has become bitter and jealous of the younger generation and specifically Gaga. I'm not a huge fan of her either, but at least I know who she is. Just saying...

are you high?!?...
or am i?!?...
...

cause i think you are saying here that green day is an 80's band...


which they are NOT..not even close...
they are barely a 90's band...they are post grunge...
total copycats of the buzzcocks and many other early punk bands...
*even though i like them...they are also not original...!
and they got a LOT of sh*t about being copycats as well...
-seems like they fooled you!...

and i agree that it is odd you would know about nina hagen but not grace jones...
NO ONE knows nina hagen...
she never had any songs played on popular radio and grace had quite a few dance hits...
though, granted, she was much bigger in europe than she was in the U.S.

everyone who was cool back then had to go to europe to get a break...
so sad...
it happens even now...
...
the U.S. music scene leaves much to be desired in general...

i think it's ok if someone is young and doesn't know everything about everything...
and i am speaking in general now...not just about any one person...
i just think it's a good idea to educate oneself about the world and popular culture, especially if you want to develop any sort of personal point of view...
because if you don't really know what people are talking about or even what you are talking about yourself...
it becomes very difficult to hold an intelligent discussion about anything...
and the more you know...the more interesting you become...

just my point of view...


and just on an historical note...
'grunge' killed a LOT of artists...and fashion designers...not just grace...
it was a dark time for style and elegance...
it's hard to be glamorous or stylish in a flannel shirt...
...

 

[Squizree]

i think it's ok if someone is young and doesn't know everything about everything...
and i am speaking in general now...not just about any one person...
i just think it's a good idea to educate oneself about the world and popular culture, especially if you want to develop any sort of personal point of view...
because if you don't really know what people are talking about or even what you are talking about yourself...
it becomes very difficult to hold an intelligent discussion about anything...
and the more you know...the more interesting you become...

SOOO true. I've had enough of the idiotic 15 year olds of today argue with one another like they actually know something about music. You hear them arguing about how original so and so is and how "lame" so and so is. Like the other day I heard a bunch of girls talking about how "original" Adam Lambert is. wtf.
And don't get me wrong I know very little too. I was born in the very late 80s and consider myself a 90s child. The first time I heard Western music was in 1996 (because I was still home before that) and I remember Smashing Pumpkins, Alanis Morisette, Nirvana and Spice Girls. But even I know that the majority of those singers are not original.

Claiming that someone is original is very brave and stupid.

 

[rayoflight]

It's just different circles I guess. I know Nina (and love her for being everything and more you guys claim Jones is) and that kind of "weirdo music" from 70's/80's (like Sparks and James) and the really of (and really ****ty) work of Green Day work from late 80's, yes, they are around *that* long., they just had their breakthrough with Dookie and Isomniac in the mid 90's and a comeback with American Idiot in mid 00's, and I never said they were original, just they managed to stay relevant.
And, yeah, well, I try to know more about Grace, but somehow nothing much comes out of, after hours on disco music boards only relevant thing I learn about her is that she had really fun live performances in gay clubs in the beginning of 80's and how she got all fake with when she started dating Jean Paul-Goude and moved her shows to S54 and posh places like that. Other than that, it's seems a love/hate matter like the rest is.
And thanks for telling me I'm stupid and boring.