Madonna to Adopt a baby

[fashionicon]

They tried that with the Native Americans, you know. Sent soldiers into villages and tore the children from the arms of their screaming parents and gave them to wealthier white families, for the sake of the child - they could have a better education, health, food, etc, than they would with their families in their community. But, I guess, hey, it's all okay. Those Native Americans (and all the other groups this has been done to throughout world history, and it's been a lot) just weren't good parents. Otherwise they wouldn't have protested, and would have been fine with it.

Maybe we should make it mandatory for all people under a certain income level to have their children forcibly adopted, to give them a better life. Love counts for nothing, only $$$$$$ and material goods make any difference in a child's life. Or! Let's just sterilize all the poor people in the world, and then we can avoid the entire issue! Margaret Sanger was onto something good, believing that contraception and abortion should be encouraged for all those icky non white, non Protestant people in the world. Someone should really start pushing that cause again. After all, a life not lived in at least the middle class world must really suck and contain nothing at all of value

I think adoption is a magnificent thing, when it's what the parents want, because they've decided what is best for their child. David's father has committed no crime, yet he's not a "good father" because he doesn't bow down to the wishes of outsiders, and give his child away? What makes him a less-than, not deserving of basic human rights and liberties? What makes other people so superior that they can decide who is deserving of having children? Who makes the rules on what is a meaningful life that the rest of us inferiors have to follow?

Apples and oranges...

David wasn't ripped from his arms. This is a boy that had already been staying in an orphanage. So why is everyone all up in arms about this?? He knows himself, he's not financially able to care for him. He was not forcibly taken.

And no, material things don't matter, but how easy is it for you to say? I don't know where you are at location-wise, but I'd venture to guess, since you're somewhere that has a computer, than you don't live in the outskirts of Africa. Chances are, you aren't living day to day wondering where your next meal will come from. Just a guess.

And I haven't seen (maybe I missed it) anyone accusing David's father of being a bad guy. He consented to it, he agreed that Madonna would "raise the child on his behalf". He's just like any other single mother, struggling couple,etc, etc who has gotten pregnant and don't have the means to care for a child. No one should be judged for doing so.

Trust, if you could live a comfortable life where the currency was "love" and "kisses", I'd be richer than Bill Gates.

 

[smartarse]

blood is thicker than water.

And like i said before taking a child when he/she still has a living parent/s and family creates legal mess, financial mess and emotional mess. Unfortunately this one came before the adoption was even finalized.

I have only one thing to say about the whole ordeal... if the father of the baby that Madonna wants to adopt was a good father, he wouldn't keep his child away from the life he could lead living in England with two very wealthy people. I know I would want the best for my child, and not having them growing up with malaria, no food, and no clean water.

 

[mundodabolsa]

blood is thicker than water.

And like i said before taking a child when he/she still has a living parent/s and family creates legal mess, financial mess and emotional mess. Unfortunately this one came before the adoption was even finalized.

So is it "better" to adopt a child who doesn't have any living parents over one that does? This is insane logic to me. If a 15 year old girl gets pregnant and decides to give up her child for adoption, should that child spend its life in an orphanage while the parentless children get adopted? Doesn't any child up for adoption deserve an equal chance?

Adopting a child is not about convenience, you don't pick the child that will create less of a mess for you later in life, you adopt a child you have a connection with.

This whole situation is a mess and every day and every new story that comes out only show us that none of us have any idea what the real story is, it has just become about whether you like or dislike Madonna.

 

[KhaoticKharma]

I don't think that money is the only factor. It is the fact that this little boys whole family died from Malaria. With Madonna, he will at the very least get a) two parents, b) a good education, and c) opportunities beyond his wildest dreams.

From what I can see, Madonna and Guy are good parents. It's not like Kate Moss wants to adopt.

 

[KhaoticKharma]

Apples and oranges...

David wasn't ripped from his arms. This is a boy that had already been staying in an orphanage. So why is everyone all up in arms about this?? He knows himself, he's not financially able to care for him. He was not forcibly taken.

And no, material things don't matter, but how easy is it for you to say? I don't know where you are at location-wise, but I'd venture to guess, since you're somewhere that has a computer, than you don't live in the outskirts of Africa. Chances are, you aren't living day to day wondering where your next meal will come from. Just a guess.

And I haven't seen (maybe I missed it) anyone accusing David's father of being a bad guy. He consented to it, he agreed that Madonna would "raise the child on his behalf". He's just like any other single mother, struggling couple,etc, etc who has gotten pregnant and don't have the means to care for a child. No one should be judged for doing so.

Trust, if you could live a comfortable life where the currency was "love" and "kisses", I'd be richer than Bill Gates.

I could not have said it better myself! Karma!

 

[mellowdrama]

^ Oh go away and watch Fox news will you, you're boring me silly.

I dunna havva television. I read books. The Kushner book is very, very good. It talks about how we always don't have the luxury of getting our way, awful things happen despite the power of positive thinking, and how God and our karma have nothing to do with it. It's an important lesson to learn--the earlier the better!--and Madonna seems not to have learned that lesson.

 

[smartarse]

from a legal point of view yes. in america i dont know about your country, the government would rather put the child in foster care, until the biological parent/s is deemed responsible or stable. Other cases the biological parent/s give up all rights to the child for adoption -- no contact with the child, anonymous adopted parents, no contact with the adopted parents -- nothing, nada, zilch!

In Madonna's case, she made several mistakes. she was a high profile individual- she took in a child who still has a living parent and relative. Despite what the government of Malawi said, because right now it's he said she said.... everything is out in the open, the anonymity has been divulge, everything is a legal mess, the biological father is now claiming fraud, the poor child is left wondering where am I? So yes, in legality it is not right to take a child despite everything else. IF anyone remembered the case of Elian Gonzalez where his mother died on a raft boat trying to reach Florida and his father who was still in Cuba wants him to be with him and the relatives in Florida refuse b/c they said he'll have a better life in America, this will escalate into another Elian Gonzalez Mess. So Madonna has alot of explaining to do. The Malian Government has alot of explaining to do. And the Father has alot of explaining to do.


And this is not about whether I like or dislike Madonna, because unlike Angelina Jolie haters my point of view on this is about the LEGALITY OF THE RIGHT FOR ADOPTION.

And I would be the first to say Madonna will be a good adopted mother to any child she adopt.

So is it "better" to adopt a child who doesn't have any living parents over one that does? This is insane logic to me. If a 15 year old girl gets pregnant and decides to give up her child for adoption, should that child spend its life in an orphanage while the parentless children get adopted? Doesn't any child up for adoption deserve an equal chance?

Adopting a child is not about convenience, you don't pick the child that will create less of a mess for you later in life, you adopt a child you have a connection with.



This whole situation is a mess and every day and every new story that comes out only show us that none of us have any idea what the real story is, it has just become about whether you like or dislike Madonna.

 

[Anastasia]

And no, material things don't matter, but how easy is it for you to say? I don't know where you are at location-wise, but I'd venture to guess, since you're somewhere that has a computer, than you don't live in the outskirts of Africa. Chances are, you aren't living day to day wondering where your next meal will come from. Just a guess.

Right now I have food, yes. However, I grew up very poor. No food poor. Nothing but rice and vegetables from a neighbor for an entire winter poor. Chopping up the furniture for firewood poor. No electricity and shoes and doctor's visits poor. Not Africa, certainly, but nothing to sneeze at.

However, it has never once crossed my mind that I would have been better off, or my parents would have been "good" had they given me away to have some sort of better life as defined by others.

It's the same sort of argument that says that the disabled don't lead "quality" lives. I'm not dead, yet, sorry, and I won't be dissauded from seeing an attempt to dehumanize the targets of their mock pity and concern in the theory that poor/sick/minority people are automatically somehow inferior and less deserving of rights.

 

[Anastasia]

I'm sorry, fashionicon. I apologize for saying the concern and pity is mock. That was uncalled for. I'm very frustrated right now, but I should follow the advice I often give to others, and remind myself that most people in the world are coming from a good place, and trying to do what they believe is the right thing. I do believe you genuinely care. But I also genuinely care as well, and honestly am disturbed by the story, in many ways because of my personal experience with a childhood of poverty.

 

[smartarse]

I dont understand, why you people don't understand what adoption means. Madonna is adopting a boy to call her own , who still has a father and relative living. Do you know the implications of adoption? The father is still the blood of this child. Even though he is downtrotten the boy is still his flesh and blood. As he claims now, he doesn't want to give up his son to anyone, including Madonna. This is not about having a good life for the child. He's still the father to this boy. And adoption severs that ties . If Madonna said she'll take the boy as a foster mother that's totally different. The father will still have that legal bind to the child.

 

[smartarse]

*having a loving mother and father with nothing outweighs having everything*

 

[smartarse]

To put it in layman's terms ...

This is what Madonna is doing...

Adoption (of David) To take into one's family through legal means and raise as one's own child.

a.To take up and make one's own
b.To take on or assume

This is what the father thought was going to happen...

Foster (mother to David) to bring up, raise, or rear, as a foster child

a. to promote the growth or development of; further; encourage
b. to care for or cherish.
c. to feed or nourish
d. Providing parental care and nurture to children not related through legal or blood ties
e. Receiving parental care and nurture from those not related to one through legal or blood ties.
d.affording, receiving, or sharing nurture or parental care though not related by blood or legal relationships..

until the father is ready to have him back.

*definitions of adoption and foster taken from dictionary.com

 

[fashionicon]

Right now I have food, yes. However, I grew up very poor. No food poor. Nothing but rice and vegetables from a neighbor for an entire winter poor. Chopping up the furniture for firewood poor. No electricity and shoes and doctor's visits poor. Not Africa, certainly, but nothing to sneeze at.

However, it has never once crossed my mind that I would have been better off, or my parents would have been "good" had they given me away to have some sort of better life as defined by others.

It's the same sort of argument that says that the disabled don't lead "quality" lives. I'm not dead, yet, sorry, and I won't be dissauded from seeing an attempt to dehumanize the targets of their mock pity and concern in the theory that poor/sick/minority people are automatically somehow inferior and less deserving of rights.

I totally get where you're coming from. No need to apologize. And I didn't mean for it sound like that at all. I just think the standards of being "poor" here in America, Europe, etc is wildly diffrent when it comes to the people of Africa. As I stated before, my parents were both poor Nigerians growing. Both my parents had 6/7 brothers and sisters. My family was considered lower class, until my father went back to school at the age of 40 years old 8 years ago. My parents are constantly wiring relatives back home money. When they do travel to Nigeria, their suitcases are chalk full of things to take to relatives.Beleive me I know, what it's like.

I, personally don't look at David's father as this poor minority. Just because people are struggling dosen't mean they should give up their children. But when they are at a point where the child is living in an orphanage, than perhaps things should be considered, that's all I'm saying.

I didn't mean to downplay your situation or anyone in a similar situation.

 

[mundodabolsa]

This is what the father thought was going to happen...

I thought your first response to my post was fair and while I didn't agree with you, you defended your points well. However, now I'm left wondering, why are you choosing to believe his side of the story only? You yourself have admitted that it's only he said, she said at this point. The father has given conflicting statements on what he thought was going to happen. We don't know that is what the father thought was going to happen, it can't be simplified like that, especially because the dictionary definition of adoption and foster care in English means 0 in this case.

After the father's first statement came out a few days ago I thought I understood his intentions, but now it's clear that we'll probably never know the truth in this case. Furthermore, I'm not from Malawi, I've never been to Malawi, I don't know anyone from Malawi. I can't pretend to interpret what someone from Malawi thinks adoption vs. foster care means based on what it means in America.

 

[Zen]

Apples and oranges...


if you could live a comfortable life where the currency was "love" and "kisses", I'd be richer than Bill Gates.

Your last quote....

 

[smartarse]

My point was why it is better to adopt a child that is orphaned rather with one who still has a living parent/s and/or relatives. Because with it comes all legal , financial, and emotional mess like what is happening now.

The father did come out via interpreter on Reuters. It has escalated to a global mess. And with Madonna being an American it has gotten really ugly-- God knows we don't need more of this now. I don't know why Oprah has become a "Confessional to Oprah Show" lately. Madonna should be talking to the court of law with this one.

I thought your first response to my post was fair and while I didn't agree with you, you defended your points well. However, now I'm left wondering, why are you choosing to believe his side of the story only? You yourself have admitted that it's only he said, she said at this point. The father has given conflicting statements on what he thought was going to happen. We don't know that is what the father thought was going to happen, it can't be simplified like that, especially because the dictionary definition of adoption and foster care in English means 0 in this case.

After the father's first statement came out a few days ago I thought I understood his intentions, but now it's clear that we'll probably never know the truth in this case. Furthermore, I'm not from Malawi, I've never been to Malawi, I don't know anyone from Malawi. I can't pretend to interpret what someone from Malawi thinks adoption vs. foster care means based on what it means in America.

 

[electricladyland]

forget Madonna...i want Oprah to adopt me. Not foster parent...adopt! I wonder if i have to move to Malawi for her to do it...

 

[electricladyland]

^ Oh go away and watch Fox news will you, you're boring me silly.

uh yeah, mellowdrama, go watch fox news! I would love to hear your take on it! If you did cultural criticism of fox news, it might actually make me attempt to stomach it!

 

[mellowdrama]

uh yeah, mellowdrama, go watch fox news! I would love to hear your take on it! If you did cultural criticism of fox news, it might actually make me attempt to stomach it!

I haven't had a TV since 2000. I don't think there was a FOX news then, was there? My TV was a big old 27" Zenith from the 70's with the wooden chassis and the knob that went from 2 to UHF. I got evicted and it was heavy. I had to give it up.

So Madonna, Fox News--media and content and advertising and crap--it's these stories we tell ourselves and each other so as to feel good about ourselves and our way of living, or to be enraged, envious, snarky and snide about the stories other people tell themselves about their way of living. But stay seated and facing forward, by all means. Chase that carrot. Pity their parsnip. Envy their endive. Eat! Eat! Eat!

Sit still, face forward---It's living a blinkered, shut-in existence. It's aspirational, judgmental. It's "safe"---I'm aspirational, judgmental, blinkered and shut-in, too--but I know I'm not safe. However, I really want to see Madonna, a woman I do not know, have some peace of mind, to do nothing for once. I wish the Fox News folks well, though I've read that they're prigs or whatever. I like Madonna, and I enjoy prigs, is what I'm saying--I just don't put my faith in them.

Whereas, Kabbalah Center's "Spirituality For Kids" would have our wee Malawians believe they really don't want "the physical things that we can weigh, count, touch, or measure but how these things make us feel (e.g., happy, loved, satisfied, etc.)" and we certaintly need to point out that "it's not their parents, their friends, their teachers, or anyone else who stops them from being eternally fulfilled and from reaching their goals. Instead, it is the voice within them that tells them that they should get angry and yell, that they are not good enough, that it's too hard for them to try, that it will never work out....When applied to life, these rules help students receive greater satisfaction and uninterrupted happiness every minute, hour, and day of their lives." http://spiritualityforkids.org/curriculum.htm

I certainly hope they can convince AIDS orphans of the reality of the Spiritual Laws of Cause and Effect. Perhaps if everyone believes it, it will be true. Which is FOX News, I guess.

We get what we deserve, all of us. Isn't that fair and balanced?

God Bless ya'll, Social Engineers.

 

[mellowdrama]

I wonder if they will try to sell the poor Africans the $28 Kabbalah bracelet?...

No, honey, they get to make the $28 Kabbalah bracelets.