Phoebe Philo - Designer

[jeanclaude]

A lot of money in that look...when you can look as generic for less!

 

[tricotineacetat]

A lot of money in that look...when you can look as generic for less!

She can pull off that look since she’s tall and a small size on heels, but the cut of that suit will most certainly look bad the moment you even put it on flat shoes.

Just to make the most obvious comparison but I think this suiting look from Hedi Slimane’s Celine, is by far more flattering:

(Photo from firstview.com)

 

[donyan]

I’m amazed at how short the honeymoon has turned out to last, judging from here this seems to have turned sour even faster than I thought

 

[plentyofhorns]

I’m amazed at how short the honeymoon has turned out to last, judging from here this seems to have turned sour even faster than I thought

extremely high expectations + extremely high prices make it easy to critique

 

[Lola701]

I’m amazed at how short the honeymoon has turned out to last, judging from here this seems to have turned sour even faster than I thought

It’s always like that. It was predictable. There was too much hype for people to be satisfied. We have seen it times and times in fashion.
Helmut Lang (when he came back to Paris), Tom Ford, Hedi Slimane, Jil Sander…Etc. I mean where there’s hype for some reason, people expect those people, who have forged their aesthetic to come flip things around and reinvent fashion all over again.

Personally, I love my Phoebe pieces, even though I did not buy tailoring. I’m more excited for her next collection though

 

[Overindulgence]

I’m amazed at how short the honeymoon has turned out to last, judging from here this seems to have turned sour even faster than I thought

I feel like part of it has to do with the fact that there was no show or launch event for it. We didn't get that initial jolt of excitement with the runway show, then waiting for the campaign, and then the clothes hitting the website. Part of Phoebe's appeal was her ability to build a world with the runway show space to the store design. I know it's costly to run the business she's running, and LVMH only has a minor stake, on top of shows being wasteful but hopefully.

It's her first collection, and I still enjoy it. There's a interesting mix of the spirit of Margiela and Alber's Lanvin that just works for me. I would love to see the irl wearers try to style the pieces that are less oversized and clunky (for example, the dresses, the heels, metallic pieces, and studded pieces). I would love to see someone like Carine style or wear it as she could really showcase the fun/sexy parts of the collection tbh.

 

[PierreGotha]

Her Spring and Summer drop will be anticipated but not as notable as her inaugural collection.
Honestly, she needs better leather goods. During her tenure at Céline, its bags were her bread and butter. Even to this day her
belt bags are consistent sellers.

 

[Nimsay]

It took a while for her bags to ramp up at Celine. Im not even a Phoebe fan and I think itll be a few more drops before shes in full swing again.

 

[tricotineacetat]

It’s always like that. It was predictable. There was too much hype for people to be satisfied. We have seen it times and times in fashion.
Helmut Lang (when he came back to Paris), Tom Ford, Hedi Slimane, Jil Sander…Etc. I mean where there’s hype for some reason, people expect those people, who have forged their aesthetic to come flip things around and reinvent fashion all over again.

Personally, I love my Phoebe pieces, even though I did not buy tailoring. I’m more excited for her next collection though

I can only speak of my subjective perspective as a menswear customer which is less 'trend driven' than womenswear, but for me it's completely fine that the essentials of Hedi Slimane, Helmut Lang or Jil Sander dressing (which peaked in the late 90ies / early 2000s) didn't change much since their inception and I can still wear clothes I owned from so many years ago and feel that they still look timelessly modern. The fact that I can still pull a Helmut Lang crombie coat that will by now be more than 20 years old or a pair of zipped boots with the slightest bit of a cuban heel from Hedi's Saint Laurent whose first issue dates back 10 years is an assuring testament to the validity and timelessness of these purchases. So from that perspective, I don't think there has ever been an expectation for those designers to deliver a disruptive shift in their proposal - I believe the core of what these designers are/were doing took only marginal part in the regular fashion conversation, whereas Tom Ford or Riccardo Tisci are by far more perceived as producing fashion for "fashion followers".

That being said, it will be interesting to see how Phoebe Philo's design legacy will be perceived in hindsight. While her point of view is often described to share common ground with The Row or Jil Sander's minimalism, I think there is something much more 'on-trend' with the cut of her clothes or the way she insists on those very much trending square-toe shoes that I can't help but think will probably look dated once the ship has sailed elsewhere.

 

[style_expert]

I agree, the bags are far from extraordinary, especially at that price point. Not surprising, at the moment all bags are still available in her e-shop. Same for most of the shoes.
On a 'supermodel' like Rosie Huntington-Whiteley, you'd say almost anything should look great. Even though she is definitely a fan of PP, it doesn't do much for her.
The expectations were of course very high, perhaps unreasonably high, but it also had to do with the fact that it took a long time, for fashion industry standards a very long time.
I think less pressure and the anticipation taken down a notch will only prove beneficial.

 

[Lola701]

I can only speak of my subjective perspective as a menswear customer which is less 'trend driven' than womenswear, but for me it's completely fine that the essentials of Hedi Slimane, Helmut Lang or Jil Sander dressing (which peaked in the late 90ies / early 2000s) didn't change much since their inception and I can still wear clothes I owned from so many years ago and feel that they still look timelessly modern. The fact that I can still pull a Helmut Lang crombie coat that will by now be more than 20 years old or a pair of zipped boots with the slightest bit of a cuban heel from Hedi's Saint Laurent whose first issue dates back 10 years is an assuring testament to the validity and timelessness of these purchases. So from that perspective, I don't think there has ever been an expectation for those designers to deliver a disruptive shift in their proposal - I believe the core of what these designers are/were doing took only marginal part in the regular fashion conversation, whereas Tom Ford or Riccardo Tisci are by far more perceived as producing fashion for "fashion followers".

That being said, it will be interesting to see how Phoebe Philo's design legacy will be perceived in hindsight. While her point of view is often described to share common ground with The Row or Jil Sander's minimalism, I think there is something much more 'on-trend' with the cut of her clothes or the way she insists on those very much trending square-toe shoes that I can't help but think will probably look dated once the ship has sailed elsewhere.

I don’t know, I don’t mind that « on-trend » aspect of fashion. I like personality in fashion and I have a hard time jumping on the The Row bandwagon. I love the idea of having an in-out of love for some pieces and wear it throughout your life than having a wardrobe of quote on quote « good taste essentials ».
I bought the oversized popelin white shirt and the furry-esque miniskirt. Those are very trendy pieces but at the same time, they are kind of timeless for me. I can mix it with some old Lanvin, some old Tom Ford or whatever. It’s funny that you talked about Riccardo because last week I wore my big Philo popelin t-shirt with some Riccardo era Givenchy leopard print pants (from 2011 if I remember well) and a pair of simple Francesco Russo black sandals. I’m sure it’s probably against the rules of this new age of good, quiet luxury taste. And I also think a lot of people wouldn’t mix Riccardo and Phoebe together. And I’m going to wear that shirt again for Christmas ! My idea of timelessness is not the same as everybody maybe. A strong piece that hold a creative or cultural value is a timeless.

But also, I think men have a more limited frame. There almost like those schools of designs for men. There’s a great chance that someone who loved Hedi at Dior Homme is probably still a Celine customer but also liked all the designers from that era of Hedi’s peak, at the time. I also think a heavy Prada customer from the 90’s was into Helmut and Jil. Usually men don’t have big gaps in terms of aesthetic or brands.

My wardrobe in terms of HF names goes literally from Dolce & Gabbana to Junya Watanabe.

But I really think Phoebe’s work is timeless. And it’s precisely because they are beyond the spectrum of the current trend of quiet luxury.

 

[tricotineacetat]

What you see as a 'limited frame' is perhaps what is for another a 'Gesamtkunstwerk', a designer's point-of-view that transcends merely that of the design of clothing and accessories but where music, architecture and art projects play an equally important part in the creation of a universe of it's own.

Helmut Lang had that with his Richard Gluckman-designed architecture, the collaborations with Louise Bourgeois, Elfie Semotan or Jenny Holzer, as well as the electronic music curated by Peter Kruder. All these aspects made it clear what the 'attitude' of Helmut Lang was all about, of the culture in which it existed. I'd like to believe I can imagine what sort of records sit on the shelves of a customer of Ann's, of Helmut's and Hedi's - For me that's not a sign of a narrow mindset but part of the conviction that fashion exists as an extension of contemporary culture and that for some, a personal style cuts deeper than just surface adornment. The idea that Roberto Cavalli can sit in the same closet with Ann Demeulemeester doesn't seem plausible to me.

 

[Nimsay]

I mean whose closet is Ann D in?


My closet runs from Dolce to Junya too lol. I love classics and all black. I love subtle interesting twists that takes a keen eye to appreciate. I definitely want to look detached from whats “in” because I want to show that I am detached from society.

 

[Lola701]

What you see as a 'limited frame' is perhaps what is for another a 'Gesamtkunstwerk', a designer's point-of-view that transcends merely that of the design of clothing and accessories but where music, architecture and art projects play an equally important part in the creation of a universe of it's own.

Helmut Lang had that with his Richard Gluckman-designed architecture, the collaborations with Louise Bourgeois, Elfie Semotan or Jenny Holzer, as well as the electronic music curated by Peter Kruder. All these aspects made it clear what the 'attitude' of Helmut Lang was all about, of the culture in which it existed. I'd like to believe I can imagine what sort of records sit on the shelves of a customer of Ann's, of Helmut's and Hedi's - For me that's not a sign of a narrow mindset but part of the conviction that fashion exists as an extension of contemporary culture and that for some, a personal style cuts deeper than just surface adornment. The idea that Roberto Cavalli can sit in the same closet with Ann Demeulemeester doesn't seem plausible to me.

I don’t think you understood my « limited frame » comment because a POV is something that I respect and that attracts me to designers. And a POV goes beyond a show. It’s also a store, the music you choose, the people who surrounds you. Fashion is a culture, it’s a lifestyle and clothes becomes fashion when they are a part of a lifestyle.

The limited frame was more about he fact that men do not have that many options or at least, society doesn’t allow men to have many options. That’s why the idea of schools of designs came to me. It’s that thing of designers who speaks the same language with a different accent. And I think men are looking for some sort of stability too. And I see it with my husband. He was a Dior Homme guy. His introduction to fashion or style was through Hedi Slimane. Somehow he kept that aesthetic all along. When Hedi left, he already had that uniform that was set in the FW04/SS05 collections that he kept for a longtime, continuing buying more of the same pieces each season. His love for DH led him to Balmain under Decarnin, then Margiela (before John) and then Dries. Somehow his style has evolved and it’s very much about 3 brands for specific things.

I think women are somehow less faithful to that idea of schools of designs. Status can also play a part in this. Or is it because of the idea of identification.
I’ve always admired the work of Gianni, I have loved some Donatella collections but I’ve always been afraid and almost intimidated by idea of wearing Versace. FW08 was a collection that spoke to me but the first time I purchased a Versace piece was almost a decade after.

Regarding the Ann Demeulemeester X Roberto Cavalli thing, it doesn’t seem plausible but then again, it may exist in some people working in fashion. Carine Roitfeld has worn her own Cavalli and then Rick Owens after all.

And maybe having worked in fashion, around people of that world also influence my views on it.

 

[chinsumo]

 

[Nimsay]

still a no tho i like the sleeves. The belt messes it up. Shouldve been done in leather not fur so it doesnt add bulk.

 

[RaisinBoy]

was interesting for a second.

 

[chinsumo]

 

[Nimsay]

Doesnt look desirable

 

[StylishCynic]

Some insight on sales and success of the first "deliveries."

Phoebe or Not to Be?
That is the question.
by Lauren Sherman

In fashion, 2023 was a year of confusion, but perhaps the most confusing element of all was how to feel about Phoebe Philo and her long-anticipated, drops-driven return to the scene. Actually, don’t call them drops, the Phoebe Philo people say. Internally, the Supreme-style product releases are referred to as “deliveries.” After all, they’re not sloughing off $40 screen-printed tees, are they?

No, they are selling what the industry’s top critics deemed the future of fashion: four-figure cotton shirts with collars stitched to pop, five-figure knitted dresses covered in radiating sequins, and leather coats so expensive you have to ask about the price. But along with the expected insider praise, pedestrian fans of all ages pushed back, declaring that the world had changed in the five years since Philo resigned from her post as creative director of Céline, the job that made her so famous. Phoebe Philo, the line, was primed to fall short of the lofty expectations of its demanding, emotional audience.

Two months after the initial launch of a brand that took more than two years to materialize, Philo and her team are preparing for the real test: a second collection launch that is slated, according to press materials, for “Spring 2024.” There is also talk of an offline expansion in the form of shop-in-shops at a handful of retailers in Europe, the U.K., and the U.S. (A rep for Philo did not respond to a request for comment on the speculation.)

Will people keep buying it? The October lift-off was as stressful on the inside as it was on the outside, according to those who lived it. There are tales of typical launch-day calamity, compounded by the wonkiness, intentional and unintentional, of the site. Looking back, Philo’s reintroduction into fashion society was messy and unsettling. Some of it was chaotic good: the grainy imagery, the deliciously vile typeface of the logo, the second “delivery,” with its studded gold bikini bottoms and a dirt magnet of a white handbag. The collection, in many ways, felt dangerous after years of designers playing it safe in the long shadow Philo cast during her time at Céline.

But there was plenty of chaotic evil in there, too, and not just the laborious return process that requires the unsatisfied customer to email a photo of themselves wearing the garment or accessory back to the company, which then reviews it and approves a return. The reality is that the customer is providing Phoebe Philo with invaluable information on how the garments fit real people. A circuitous data grab. The bigger problem seems to be that, after the initial thrill, those who have kept their purchases are hardly effusive. “The surprise is, everyone I knew who bought it isn’t obsessed and loving it and either returned it or sold it,” one retail executive told me.

We were going back and forth, attempting a back-of-the-envelope estimate of how much product the company sold in that first “delivery.” It’s hard to pin down because the minimum manufacturing run for a style is typically 100 units—except when the units are priced so high. Check back with me in a year. The company was only required to file its 2022 financial statements on the British business registrar at the end of last month.

That report does tell an interesting story, though. By the end of 2022, the Phoebe Philo company had 49 employees, with £18 million in net assets, down from nearly £26 million in March 2022. (And £14 million cash on hand, compared with £25 million earlier in the year.) The dip is understandable: The number of people on the payroll more than tripled in less than a year, and they were prepping for a launch that was meant to happen much earlier than it did.

As for how much Philo was paying herself? “An amount of £259,677 was paid to Phoebe Philo Studio Limited in respect of consulting fees,” reads a note at the bottom of the report. That’s nothing compared to her counterparts at minority investor LVMH, and nothing compared to what she was making while employed full-time at the group. This is a startup, after all, and her main compensation is her equity.

Phoebe Philo will likely lose money for the next several years. We know that this is how the fashion business works, even for well-funded companies with the right distribution, manufacturing, and operational know-how. My honest feeling is that, once the product is sitting in a store, and customers can go in, try things on several times over, and perhaps buy a few things on sale after Christmas, there will be less resentment over the pricing, and more excitement over the purchases they’re making. Philo knows what her woman wants because she is her woman. It’s just a matter of delivering it in the right package.

Source: Puck News