Proenza Schouler for Target
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caramelhoney
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I kept scrolling hoping I'd find something that caught my eye...no luck. I guess that's the point though.
jun3machina
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yah...see i didn't submit my order....i am loving the palm print dress and the bustier......but the cut's have been sooooooooooooooooooo iffy with these go international lines, i'm going to be mad if nothing fits right or the fabric is chinsey....i think im gonna stick it out and see what pops up in my store. if i like it, then i'll buy it....and if this collection is actually as good as it looks, i may even pay more on ebay......
^same here. i really like the blue bustier and a black dress but i couldn't bring myself to order them due to concerns about fit. i'm sure target will have enough to stock their stores when feb. 4 hits. i'll just have to be there as soon as they hit the shelves.
here are excerpts from the tolkien conference they did last fall that i found at tolkion.com. I left all the sourcing info in because i think its relevant to the target collection. I think they are really interested in learning from their target collection (ie which pants sell more, etc).
Repackaging the Label
And what experience have you had in working with larger companies?
Jack McCullough… Yeah. We’ve done a lot of consulting in the past, where our names haven’t been attached to it.
How common is that in the fashion world these days?
JM… I think it’s pretty common.
You’ve also attached your name to a project.
JM… We did Max Mara for three years. Financially, it’s really helpful, especially being a younger designer. And then it’s great to be working for a larger company as well. Because, being from a smaller company and not having tons of experience working for other people, you learn a lot of the facets of how a larger company works.
LH… It’s really great to get a consultancy where your name is not attached to the label. That’s kind of the dream job. You get paid just to go there and tell them that you’re ‘feeling red’ or blue or short or long, and then you invoice them. It’s great. The problem is when they want to make it a public relationship, because as a young designer, your image is not set.
So you’re cutting your teeth while someone else is paying for it?
LH… Also what’s interesting, on a creative level, is the process.
JM… It’s nice to be a fly on the wall and see someone else’s process.
LH… See someone else’s process and integrate some of that.
In the old days, you probably would have served an apprenticeship under a large designer, rather than doing some sort of co-branding collaboration.
JM… Exactly.
Tell me, how important is it for the company that you choose to have similar values?
LH… I don’t know…
JM… We’ve done some other consulting where I don’t think our values have been on the same level.
LH… We tend to like more of the mass-market consultancies, because we do a high end line. We kind of know that whole world. But when you’re designing for a huge, mass-market company, it’s a completely different frame of mind that you have to put yourself in.
JM… It’s cool to be able to reach a broader audience with these mass-market brands, to be able to try and change how people are looking.
Someone reminded me about when Nigo (from Bathing Ape) attached his camouflage print to millions of cans of Pepsi, and the Cassandras of style predicted his demise. And yet, it ended up being a huge, huge artistic and commercial success. Which brings me to a question… Do you think that for today’s generation the idea of selling-out is retro?
JM… I think times have changed.
LH… Karl Lagerfeld is doing H&M, and Viktor & Rolf is doing H&M. Stella McCartney is doing H&M, and Luella (Bartley) did Target. It’s so common these days. If anything, it helps the designer, because what happens is that these companies are paying for your name to be out there. Yeah, they’re using you to get their name out there, but it’s also your name, and most of the time you have final word on what it looks like. So at the end of the day, there were huge posters of Stella McCartney all over the city when she was doing H&M, which she probably wouldn’t be able to afford.
She’s okay for cash.
LH… Okay, that was a bad example, but Luella is a better example.
Would you ever draw the line?
JM… I think what’s nice about these H&M things and these Target things is that it’s a small, capsule collection that’s out there for a short period of time—three months say—and then it’s gone. I think, if your name’s attached to it for a bit too long, people start thinking of you as that.
LH… A good example of that is Isaac Mizrahi. When a designer does it for too long, on a more permanent sort of basis, I think it ruins a designer’s name.
You mean his association with Target?
LH… Yeah, (but) not like Luella, where it’s cool and has this huge hype, and then it’s gone. When you’re there for the long haul, why is anyone going to go to Barneys and buy your clothes when they can get it at Target all the time? That gets dangerous.
JM… And I think that when you do collections like that (for a bigger company), you really have to back it up with a really strong collection within your own brand.
LH… I think what’s interesting is to do something like H&M or Target, and after that’s over, back it up with a product of your own collection that’s a little more accessible to the masses. Why do it if you’re not going to sell your own clothes? We’re selling really expensive clothes, and the people who are buying H&M or Target are not going to buy our clothes. So it’s good to have something to offer them after that three months is over.
You guys were basically design school stars. You had a very smooth transition from design school to being recognized in the fashion arena, and you went through prestigious design schools. Is there anything in your design education that prepares you for this aspect of the business?
JM… Lazaro and I have always said that interning is the most important thing you can do. In school you learn how to draw or the technical side of things. But by interning, you learn from start to finish how a season operates: from ordering the fabrics to the fittings to the castings, the show production and everything. You see that, from start to finish. And you make contacts, which is invaluable.
Do you ever have meetings with these clients where you have a total communications breakdown?
LH… For us, the most important part of these relationships is just to have complete creative control. I think once you have that, things go smoothly.
JM… At the end of the day it represents you. So if they’re pushing this or that, and you don’t feel like it’s a reflection of you, it’s kind of embarrassing. You have to just set the boundaries down in the beginning and then, from there, it’s pretty easy.
LH… Also, in general, mass-market retailers knock designers off all the time. You go to Zara or all these places, it’s just designer knock-offs. So why not work for them and knock yourself off and get paid for it?
Audience… How much do editorial comments and buyer’s comments change your work? Do you listen to the comments that they’re giving you?
JM… Now that we’ve been growing into a larger brand, we’re trying to expand our sales collection. So it’s really helpful to talk to the buyers and know what the customers are buying and not buying. There’s nothing worse than doing a great pant that sells out and then next season having a completely different pant. Why not offer that pant again in a different fabric?
LH… I remember a story about Isaac Mizrahi…
JM… You have some beef with Isaac Mizrahi!
LH… I have no problem with him! But what happened to his business was that he had a really great slim, black pant. The stores wanted that over and over. He’s like, ‘Yeah, I’m not really feeling a slim, black pant anymore. I’m feeling a full, black pant.’ And the stores didn’t sell that. So it’s really, really important to listen to what the stores have to say. A collection is a collection. You could always have whatever commercial thing in that line. Even if you don’t show it, it’s still there, so whoever wants to buy it can still buy it. So it’s really important to listen to the stores. At the end of the day, they’re the ones that are paying you.
Audience… My question is about production. I’m sure that a lot of your mass-market stuff is produced in Asia, and probably the high-end stuff is produced in Italy or France. Do you design differently for mass and for high-end, in terms of fabrication or in terms of technique? And how long do you think it will take for the techniques to become global?
LH…The stuff that’s coming out of China is surprising, though. The quality is incredible.
JM… It’s usually the fabric that feels cheap, not the sewing.
LH… Slowly but surely, things are moving to Asia. I feel like Italy can’t keep up. Our shows are in September and (during) the month of August, Italy is closed.
JM… The Italians definitely need to get on their game soon if they want to keep their heritage and their business alive, because it’s all going to move. Asia does perfect silks now. Why are you going to buy the $50 silk when you can buy the $10 silk that looks exactly the same and feels the same? Even high-quality stuff, a lot of people are making a lot of their clothes in Asia.
LH… I feel like our parents’ generation really cared about where things were made. They looked at the inside tag, and if it was made in Italy then, ‘Oh, it’s fancy.’ I think it’s more about the style of a garment these days. I don’t really care if it’s made in China or made in Italy or whatever. I just don’t see the stigma that people used to see.
Repackaging the Label
And what experience have you had in working with larger companies?
Jack McCullough… Yeah. We’ve done a lot of consulting in the past, where our names haven’t been attached to it.
How common is that in the fashion world these days?
JM… I think it’s pretty common.
You’ve also attached your name to a project.
JM… We did Max Mara for three years. Financially, it’s really helpful, especially being a younger designer. And then it’s great to be working for a larger company as well. Because, being from a smaller company and not having tons of experience working for other people, you learn a lot of the facets of how a larger company works.
LH… It’s really great to get a consultancy where your name is not attached to the label. That’s kind of the dream job. You get paid just to go there and tell them that you’re ‘feeling red’ or blue or short or long, and then you invoice them. It’s great. The problem is when they want to make it a public relationship, because as a young designer, your image is not set.
So you’re cutting your teeth while someone else is paying for it?
LH… Also what’s interesting, on a creative level, is the process.
JM… It’s nice to be a fly on the wall and see someone else’s process.
LH… See someone else’s process and integrate some of that.
In the old days, you probably would have served an apprenticeship under a large designer, rather than doing some sort of co-branding collaboration.
JM… Exactly.
Tell me, how important is it for the company that you choose to have similar values?
LH… I don’t know…
JM… We’ve done some other consulting where I don’t think our values have been on the same level.
LH… We tend to like more of the mass-market consultancies, because we do a high end line. We kind of know that whole world. But when you’re designing for a huge, mass-market company, it’s a completely different frame of mind that you have to put yourself in.
JM… It’s cool to be able to reach a broader audience with these mass-market brands, to be able to try and change how people are looking.
Someone reminded me about when Nigo (from Bathing Ape) attached his camouflage print to millions of cans of Pepsi, and the Cassandras of style predicted his demise. And yet, it ended up being a huge, huge artistic and commercial success. Which brings me to a question… Do you think that for today’s generation the idea of selling-out is retro?
JM… I think times have changed.
LH… Karl Lagerfeld is doing H&M, and Viktor & Rolf is doing H&M. Stella McCartney is doing H&M, and Luella (Bartley) did Target. It’s so common these days. If anything, it helps the designer, because what happens is that these companies are paying for your name to be out there. Yeah, they’re using you to get their name out there, but it’s also your name, and most of the time you have final word on what it looks like. So at the end of the day, there were huge posters of Stella McCartney all over the city when she was doing H&M, which she probably wouldn’t be able to afford.
She’s okay for cash.
LH… Okay, that was a bad example, but Luella is a better example.
Would you ever draw the line?
JM… I think what’s nice about these H&M things and these Target things is that it’s a small, capsule collection that’s out there for a short period of time—three months say—and then it’s gone. I think, if your name’s attached to it for a bit too long, people start thinking of you as that.
LH… A good example of that is Isaac Mizrahi. When a designer does it for too long, on a more permanent sort of basis, I think it ruins a designer’s name.
You mean his association with Target?
LH… Yeah, (but) not like Luella, where it’s cool and has this huge hype, and then it’s gone. When you’re there for the long haul, why is anyone going to go to Barneys and buy your clothes when they can get it at Target all the time? That gets dangerous.
JM… And I think that when you do collections like that (for a bigger company), you really have to back it up with a really strong collection within your own brand.
LH… I think what’s interesting is to do something like H&M or Target, and after that’s over, back it up with a product of your own collection that’s a little more accessible to the masses. Why do it if you’re not going to sell your own clothes? We’re selling really expensive clothes, and the people who are buying H&M or Target are not going to buy our clothes. So it’s good to have something to offer them after that three months is over.
You guys were basically design school stars. You had a very smooth transition from design school to being recognized in the fashion arena, and you went through prestigious design schools. Is there anything in your design education that prepares you for this aspect of the business?
JM… Lazaro and I have always said that interning is the most important thing you can do. In school you learn how to draw or the technical side of things. But by interning, you learn from start to finish how a season operates: from ordering the fabrics to the fittings to the castings, the show production and everything. You see that, from start to finish. And you make contacts, which is invaluable.
Do you ever have meetings with these clients where you have a total communications breakdown?
LH… For us, the most important part of these relationships is just to have complete creative control. I think once you have that, things go smoothly.
JM… At the end of the day it represents you. So if they’re pushing this or that, and you don’t feel like it’s a reflection of you, it’s kind of embarrassing. You have to just set the boundaries down in the beginning and then, from there, it’s pretty easy.
LH… Also, in general, mass-market retailers knock designers off all the time. You go to Zara or all these places, it’s just designer knock-offs. So why not work for them and knock yourself off and get paid for it?
Audience… How much do editorial comments and buyer’s comments change your work? Do you listen to the comments that they’re giving you?
JM… Now that we’ve been growing into a larger brand, we’re trying to expand our sales collection. So it’s really helpful to talk to the buyers and know what the customers are buying and not buying. There’s nothing worse than doing a great pant that sells out and then next season having a completely different pant. Why not offer that pant again in a different fabric?
LH… I remember a story about Isaac Mizrahi…
JM… You have some beef with Isaac Mizrahi!
LH… I have no problem with him! But what happened to his business was that he had a really great slim, black pant. The stores wanted that over and over. He’s like, ‘Yeah, I’m not really feeling a slim, black pant anymore. I’m feeling a full, black pant.’ And the stores didn’t sell that. So it’s really, really important to listen to what the stores have to say. A collection is a collection. You could always have whatever commercial thing in that line. Even if you don’t show it, it’s still there, so whoever wants to buy it can still buy it. So it’s really important to listen to the stores. At the end of the day, they’re the ones that are paying you.
Audience… My question is about production. I’m sure that a lot of your mass-market stuff is produced in Asia, and probably the high-end stuff is produced in Italy or France. Do you design differently for mass and for high-end, in terms of fabrication or in terms of technique? And how long do you think it will take for the techniques to become global?
LH…The stuff that’s coming out of China is surprising, though. The quality is incredible.
JM… It’s usually the fabric that feels cheap, not the sewing.
LH… Slowly but surely, things are moving to Asia. I feel like Italy can’t keep up. Our shows are in September and (during) the month of August, Italy is closed.
JM… The Italians definitely need to get on their game soon if they want to keep their heritage and their business alive, because it’s all going to move. Asia does perfect silks now. Why are you going to buy the $50 silk when you can buy the $10 silk that looks exactly the same and feels the same? Even high-quality stuff, a lot of people are making a lot of their clothes in Asia.
LH… I feel like our parents’ generation really cared about where things were made. They looked at the inside tag, and if it was made in Italy then, ‘Oh, it’s fancy.’ I think it’s more about the style of a garment these days. I don’t really care if it’s made in China or made in Italy or whatever. I just don’t see the stigma that people used to see.
BerlinRocks
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i wanna say stuff but i'm scared to be misunderstood...
I like the concept of taking High-Streets designers and making them design a (cheapest) collection for "mass" people. It's good fashion comes downtown and it's good downtown can afford Designers outfits (even if there's not only witten Proenza & Schouler but Proenza&Schouler FOR Target)... It breaks the social class and everybody can afford it... that's great!
but what's the point in this when you (re)create the very Luxe exclusivety code... Edited @ xxxx items blablabla... sort of "collector" item.
what's the point in doing this?!
If you create for mass market then product in mass even if it's for a short period like 2weeks or 1month...
If I were a designer I would request such a line in my contract....
because otherwise, I don't see the point expect create envy and gives free representation for the designers... which is the point of a show.... or ad campains etc.!
when i read i'm quite surprised... even if I already know the answer.
I like the concept of taking High-Streets designers and making them design a (cheapest) collection for "mass" people. It's good fashion comes downtown and it's good downtown can afford Designers outfits (even if there's not only witten Proenza & Schouler but Proenza&Schouler FOR Target)... It breaks the social class and everybody can afford it... that's great!
but what's the point in this when you (re)create the very Luxe exclusivety code... Edited @ xxxx items blablabla... sort of "collector" item.
what's the point in doing this?!
If you create for mass market then product in mass even if it's for a short period like 2weeks or 1month...
If I were a designer I would request such a line in my contract....
because otherwise, I don't see the point expect create envy and gives free representation for the designers... which is the point of a show.... or ad campains etc.!
wow, pretty much all my items have already shipped! i knew the proenza items were just sitting around the target warehouses!
my blue chain print silk wrap top, blue silk bustier top, avalon sea palm print wrap dress and the 2 voile bustier dresses should be at my house by monday...can't wait. i will post pics here as soon as i receive them!
my blue chain print silk wrap top, blue silk bustier top, avalon sea palm print wrap dress and the 2 voile bustier dresses should be at my house by monday...can't wait. i will post pics here as soon as i receive them!
jun3machina
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i'll be looking forward to your pics and review/thoughts on the line lucy!
thepeppers
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lucy92 said:
Me too, me too, I just got an email confirmation that most of my order had shipped. I can't wait!!!
kimair
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i ordered this skirt:
and the palm print silk dress...
pics from shoplocal.com
i wanted the sweatshirt too, but i couldn't find it on shoplocal...
there are a few other pieces i have my eye on, but i need to see them in person...
i'm curious about the bags...
and the palm print silk dress...
pics from shoplocal.com
i wanted the sweatshirt too, but i couldn't find it on shoplocal...
there are a few other pieces i have my eye on, but i need to see them in person...
i'm curious about the bags...
S
svetLANAA
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lucy92 and thepeppers:
did you both order directly from the Target website? and which type of shipping did you choose?
did you both order directly from the Target website? and which type of shipping did you choose?
thepeppers
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svetLANAA said:
I ordered from Shoplocal.com, which then directed me to the target website, so somehow I ordered from target.
I chose the cheapest shipping because it wasn't free, so it could take a while to get here.
gius
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Exactly
this is brilliant
I wonder how exactly the mass-market differs from the high-end in terms of taste and styles.
It's clearly different from their mainline--like the colours are intense in the Target collection when compared
has anyone tried ordering today? seems like the links from shoplocal and froogle are not working anymore. one of my blog readers reports that target took down the entire line as of tonight. her shopping cart's gone and when she goes into her order history, links are gone too. target must have caught wind of all the orders that were coming in and changed all the links.
maybe we can google them? LOL. but good for you lucy. looking forward to your report on what you get. btw, interesting read there about JM and LH. thanks for sharing.
maybe we can google them? LOL. but good for you lucy. looking forward to your report on what you get. btw, interesting read there about JM and LH. thanks for sharing.
jun3machina
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interesting..........
yup, i checked...target got wise to us i guess! but for some reason you can still purchase the patrick robinson items.
it would probably have been a blow to target to have items immediately sell out before the general public got to buy them...i dont blame them.
it would probably have been a blow to target to have items immediately sell out before the general public got to buy them...i dont blame them.
S
svetLANAA
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I just called Target to ask them about why it said my expected delivery date was March 28th-30th for my palm print scarf, blue bustier, and palm print hand bag and they said it was because the items were either sold out or back ordered so I asked her if it meant that they weren't going to carry it in the stores since it is sold out online and she said that the supply they have for online and in the stores is separate, they might be sold out of something online but the actual store will carry it, which is good to know! She went ahead though and cancelled my order because March 30th is tooooo long to wait.
Also she mentioned that as she was looking up my items she noticed they had been taken off the website because they were sold out.
Also she mentioned that as she was looking up my items she noticed they had been taken off the website because they were sold out.
kat, we thought you'd like to know that we shipped a portion of your recent order separately to give you quicker service. Shipping charges are split between shipments-additional charges will not apply. The remainder of your order will follow as soon as those items become available. Please review your shipment information below.
HOLY COW THEY'RE ALREADY SHIPPING PART OF MY ORDER! YAAAY!
also, are you sure it's because it's backordered? Aren't some of the Proenza Schouler items being released at different times?
HOLY COW THEY'RE ALREADY SHIPPING PART OF MY ORDER! YAAAY!
also, are you sure it's because it's backordered? Aren't some of the Proenza Schouler items being released at different times?
Also, one of my fashion teachers e-mailed me this:
Dear Opening Ceremony Customer,
Please join us for this special collaboration we are doing with Proenza Schouler for Target.
This is the one and only time you will ever see the COMPLETE collection under one roof, and
it will be available at Opening Ceremony even before it hits Target stores nationwide!!
Our store will be filled solely with the Proenza Schouler for Target collection and we will be replenishing nightly.
This four day event is open to the public
Friday, Feb 2nd 11-8pm
Saturday, Feb 3rd 11-8pm
Sunday, Feb 4th 12-7pm
Monday, Feb 5th 11-8pm
NOTE: We will be closing early at 6pm on Tuesday Jan 30th, and closed all day Wednesday Jan 31st and Tuesday Feb 6th. We will reopen at 11:00am on Wednesday Feb 7th with our brand new Spring collections!!!
Opening Ceremony
35 Howard Street (at Broadway & Lafayette Streets)
New York, NY 10013
Tel (212) 219 - 2688
www.openingceremony.us
USA vs. Sweden
Nearest Subways: N, R and 6 (Canal Street Station)
Dear Opening Ceremony Customer,
Please join us for this special collaboration we are doing with Proenza Schouler for Target.
This is the one and only time you will ever see the COMPLETE collection under one roof, and
it will be available at Opening Ceremony even before it hits Target stores nationwide!!
Our store will be filled solely with the Proenza Schouler for Target collection and we will be replenishing nightly.
This four day event is open to the public
Friday, Feb 2nd 11-8pm
Saturday, Feb 3rd 11-8pm
Sunday, Feb 4th 12-7pm
Monday, Feb 5th 11-8pm
NOTE: We will be closing early at 6pm on Tuesday Jan 30th, and closed all day Wednesday Jan 31st and Tuesday Feb 6th. We will reopen at 11:00am on Wednesday Feb 7th with our brand new Spring collections!!!
Opening Ceremony
35 Howard Street (at Broadway & Lafayette Streets)
New York, NY 10013
Tel (212) 219 - 2688
www.openingceremony.us
USA vs. Sweden
Nearest Subways: N, R and 6 (Canal Street Station)
