So You Want to Become a Model? (PLEASE READ POST #1 BEFORE POSTING)

[wednesdays child]

^^totally agree fashionluv,^^

.... but if she is being suggested to do a paid test by her agency, and wants to know if the price that she is being quoted is reasonable, I would say, ask for the photographers website (all prof photogs have one,) and examples of tests that he/she has done previously for the agency and editorials /ads that the photog has shot... are they good? do you like them??.

Do the tests show the girl off in a good way or, are you thinking, what a strange angle her thigh is on, her face looks weird and overly photoshopped, what weird styling/makeup, then say NO!

If the tests/portfolio you see are gorgeous , amazing, then yes it's reasonable , if they are any less than that, then don't do it, better to look in smaller, new magazines until you find a look you like and then contact the photog through their website, and ask ... you may be surprised!!

..many upcoming photogs do tests to make ends meet... have a look at some of the famous models threadshere on tfs, ie Lara Stone's! Right at the beginning of the thread, you can see the difference in how a good and bad photog can make a model look!

So in short, my answer is $250 can be reasonable or unreasonable, if it is a good test , and gets you more work, it is reasonable, if it is bad and prevents you from getting more work, thenit is totally unreasonable!

 

[Blunier]

Typical basic polaroids for fashion agency submissions should look like these examples (Source: IQ Models; Model: Olya Ovchinnikova).

Blunier

 

[Blunier]

Below is a contribution I wrote some time ago for another forum (has been slighty edited for tFS).

Most images posted online by persons seeking an answer to "can I be a model?" do not allow any valid assessment. It is tricky to comment such images online. Opinions vary and some persons are not ready for straightforward comments and some even get offended.

By far most "average" persons are not qualified to give a valid opinion, I mean valid from a professional POV. Most "average" persons are fooled by appearances, like the technical quality of an image, make-up, retouching or so and cannot tell between prettiness and fashion model potential.

Simple polaroid style images are not glamourous but far more useful than heavily retouched studio pictures where various artists team up to do their best to more or less successfully hide a model's imperfections.

Please submit SIMPLE images following a few very basic rules, there is no need to hire a photographer for that and you do not need any advanced camera.

Many submissions are rejected only because it is impossible to get an idea about how someone looks.

Remember that each agency has specific requirements. Photographers are often asked by aspiring models if they "can make their book". Unfortunately in most cases one would waste money to end with images which cannot be used as they will not meet the requirements of the (future) agency.

Fashion agencies mainly want to see two sort of images:

- Tearsheets showing that a model has already worked in real life (covers, editorials, advertisement campaigns...)

or

- Simple polaroid style images.

In some cases, high-end editorial quality tests can help too, especially if a girl is already "old" and cannot undergo a full development cycle but they don't necessarily tell if a girl is really a good model because you can't know how many tests she needed to do for one with good results.

(May be different for some commercial domains but I won't discuss that here.)

By far most wannabee-portfolio-like images are not useful... excepted the worst of them which may be showed around during the agency Christmas or New Year party.

Usually only photographers recommended by the agency are really able to produce the images the agency wants.
Legit agencies are not connected to photostudios and will only suggest photographers.

Below are some general recommendations for polaroid style images. There is usually no need for a true Polaroid,
nearly any simple point-and-shoot digital camera will do it. If such images are bad it is most probably not the camera but do not try to use cellphone cameras or webcams.

Images should be tack sharp, correctly exposed, have a good contrast and an acceptable white balance (=somewhat realistic colors).

The subject (you) must fill the frame[/u] and please do not show your sister, favorite pet or (current/future/past/future past) significant other.

Choose the correct camera orientation, usually vertical (that's why it's called portrait and not landscape).

Have a plain simple boring background (preferably a simple white or grey wall, avoid colors), most wallpapers are not interesting anyway. Avoid any background element which could catch the attention, especially furniture, posters etc..

Wear simple and tight clothes (no flashy colors, no too visible logos) which allow someone to get an precise idea of your body (forget the baggy urban style!). Show your body and face, not your clothes, jewels or accessories.
A bikini is preferred, lingerie should be avoided. Do not wear skirts or miniskirts.

No makeup (or extremely light if you really insist but none is the usual rule).

Do not hide or photoshop "generally visible" tattoos nor moles etc.

Avoid red eyes (but do not edit red eyes, if required reshoot).

Do not wear any hat, cap, jewelry, watch or so.

Show bare legs and arms and if possible a flat tummy but don't suck your tummy in as it would be noticeable.

Do not pose, BE YOURSELF.

Do not try any artistic effect.

No logo, copyright or date in any picture.

No photoshopping (beside general basic overall image adjustments like colorcast and white balance correction, sharpening, or curves to correct exposure and contrast).

Include a head profile with hair pulled back as the nose profile is often a problem.

Have at least an image showing your full body, facing the camera. Really, do not crop the top of your head nor your feet.

Also obviously include an image showing your face (hair pulled back).
A full body length profile would be welcome too, it often tells a lot.

Do not forget to include HONEST current stats (Bust/Waist/Hips amd stature, either in cm or in inches and half inches as full inches are too coarse), including age (preferably the Date of Birth as your age changes every second). Don't mention your weight (agencies never mention weights, basically weight does not matter, focus on how your body looks, forget your weight!).
Be careful how you take the measurements. Measure your height when standing up as you lose some height during the day and be careful to stand straight against a wall. Make sure to have your measurements taken correctly and do not try to measure yourself, ask a parent or friend to do that.

Last but not least, needless to mention that your pictures should be recent and show how you really look.

Don't forget to write your first and last name on the back of each picture you mail.

Blunier

 

[kmodel]

Thanks everyone. This is exactly what I was concerned about. We paid for a shoot with this photog and it was photoshopped. The background was COMPLETELY changed and she looked surreal. I needed some guidelines on what to have done with a different photog.

 

[Blunier]

It's very important to discuss details in advance unless the photoshoot is an assignement where the model is managed by her agency (in which case the agency will take care of the details both before and after the photoshoot).

If you hire a photographer you need to make sure that everyone knows what to expect and also how the images can be used. Don't worry about the formal copyright question, what matters are the image usage rights

Some photoshopping is usual excepted for polaroids. The degree of photoshopping widely varies, it can be anything between some basic tweaking of levels to a very complex expensive skin texture reconstruction for beauty shots intended for high-end ads.

The problem when doing some tests can also be related to the fact that if a photographer wants to work on a personal project the result will not necessarily be useful for the model. So again it's important to know what everyone expects.

The costs depend on many factors, including the location. In the U.S. tests tend to be more expensive than for example in Paris.
Obviously USD 250.00 are not covering the real costs even for a single look. A serious team (including the studio which isn't free either though not necessarily appearing as position on the invoice) esily costs several hundred USD per hour and up to much more if it's a top team. So basically unless one has really a lot of money, paying the full commercially invoiced fees is not possible. So basically when doing tests a part of the real costs is always offered.
That also explains why photographers only have limited possibilities to do tests simply because they don't pay the bills and fixed costs are surprisingly high (the same goes for agencies, models often complain about the percentages but aren't aware of the operating expenses of an agency).

Blunier

 

[cierrughhh]

blunier you have been very helpful

 

[cierrughhh]

yesss

I'm not sure... I don't consider myself a model so would it be weird to post it on the "model members post pics" thread? I guess you don't have to be signed...

DO IT DO IT!

 

[BetteT]

For portfolio shoots (tests), usually it runs from about $500 to $1,000 for about 4 looks, depending on what services are included. All pics nowadays need to have some color correction made, if it's digital, not film ... so that should be included, plus perhaps some small adjustments. But they normally don't make major retouching without extra fees. Now, I'm not talking about web photographers (GWC's = guys with cameras)... I"m talking about established fashion photographers in the major fashion cities. And that is cheap, actually ... for a regular commercial client it would be in the thousands of dollars for a day.

As Blunier and wednesdays child, so eloquently said, you do not need these kinds of shots just to send/take to an agency ... in fact it can actually be a detriment unless you are already a working model. Do not pay for a portfolio shoot, unitil you are guided by your agency ... or it will be a waste of your money. You probably won't get what the agency wants ... the style, the look, the quality, etc. ... and they will just want you re do it with one of their togs, who they know will deliver exactly what they want.

 

[Blunier]

[The images in the message I posted earlier above are only visible when logged in.]

Another point worth to mention is that it doesn't make much sense to test a lot with the same photographer. You'll very likely end with sort of a similar image style even if the pics may first seem to look quite different.

To develop a book one has to work with various photographers, it will not only allow more diversified results but also allow to work with different people. Each photographer has his/her own way of working and it's good for a model because she'll learn each time. Even seasoned models still learn because IMO modeling is like an art, if you want and are given appropriate opportunities you can learn and improve during your whole model career (the same applies to photographers even if their career is usually much longer than the ones of the models).

Don't include similar images in your book and especially not twice the same look or style (unless it's from a very good editorial), a book must show diversity. Another problem is that most models don't have the required experience and/or objectivity when it comes to choosing the images for their portfolio. Such choices should be made by their bookers or the photographers (I mean experienced ones) but not the models.

Blunier

 

[fashiongirl28]

For portfolio shoots (tests), usually it runs from about $500 to $1,000 for about 4 looks, depending on what services are included. All pics nowadays need to have some color correction made, if it's digital, not film ... so that should be included, plus perhaps some small adjustments. But they normally don't make major retouching without extra fees. Now, I'm not talking about web photographers (GWC's = guys with cameras)... I"m talking about established fashion photographers in the major fashion cities. And that is cheap, actually ... for a regular commercial client it would be in the thousands of dollars for a day.

As Blunier and wednesdays child, so eloquently said, you do not need these kinds of shots just to send/take to an agency ... in fact it can actually be a detriment unless you are already a working model. Do not pay for a portfolio shoot, unitil you are guided by your agency ... or it will be a waste of your money. You probably won't get what the agency wants ... the style, the look, the quality, etc. ... and they will just want you re do it with one of their togs, who they know will deliver exactly what they want.

I have to agree this
Most of the tests you don´t have to pay.Your agency makes all these things but in Paris I know they pay for the tests very often .

Do not pay for the Test as you if you have an agency ,your agency will pay first and you have to work then for these what they spent you

 

[BetteT]

Moderator's Note:

Please do not use this thread to post pictures or stats of yourself ... per the thread rules in Post #1.

Also, please understand that we do not allow self promotion anywhere on tFS. This is a discussion forum to exchange information and ideas.

We consider self promotion "spam" and it could negatively affect your membership. Therefore, do not post pictures from, or links to, your portfolio or comp cards.

It is OK to make one announcement in this thread if you get signed so that you may receive congratulations from other members. And of course, you may answer their questions about your agency, how you like them and how they work because this thread is here for the purpose of sharing this kind of information.

 

[LOVEITALL]

We often wondered why some pictures my daughter had taken never appeared in her book, reason being is the agency/booker has a certain "story" in mind in putting her book together. The "too pretty" or "too edgy" might get passed over with the casting agent's opinion in mind. The booker wants the girl to get work and present a book that will be noticed, show a girl's diversity in posing and her best pictures all in one. Trust that the agency and booker know what will get you work. Very good point about working with numerous photographers - they all capture something different.

 

[cold_sun]

You do not get paid for test shootings, but you also do not have to pay for them, your agency does, is that right ?

 

[LOVEITALL]

Your agency my pay the photographer directly for a test shoot session and pictures. But your agency will put that amount of money on your account which you will eventually have to "work off".

 

[Torchb3arer]

You do not get paid for test shootings, but you also do not have to pay for them, your agency does, is that right ?

The photographer is in financially libal for the test shootings, models only have to pay the travel costs. Sometimes the photographer or even the agencies reimbruse travelling expenses.

 

[fashiongirl28]

sometimes you get paid the test but you mustn´t take the money because your agency have a contract with the photographer where is standing all like money,travel costs ......

 

[fashiongirl28]

I made a little suck in my last post

You can take the money when its standing in the contract but if not and the photographer want to give you money you mustn´t take it

 

[BetteT]

Sometimes models pay ... sometimes they don't. It just depends.

Models often do pay for their test shoots ... it's a service that photographers provide and how they can make some extra money. Sometimes your agency will have you shoot with a particularily well known fashion photographer, who never does free tests ... so it's the only way a model can get shots from him ... by paying.

If the photographer is charging he can bill the agency (if the agency OK's this) or he can collect the money directly from the model ... but either way, the model still pays. The agency will just take the cost out of your next paid job, on top of their commission. If you are not getting any work, or leave the agency, you will still have to pay the agency back sooner or later. Models always pay for their own expenses ... photography, housing, travel, postage, copying ... anything that the agency puts out for you, you have to pay back.

However, sometimes a model does not pay for a test shoot because the photographer is not charging to do it. Sometimes a photographer needs a model for a creative shoot, to add something new to his portfolio when he has a certain project in mind and needs a good agency model. In cases like this, the agency would be able to charge the photographer for the model's services, especially if she is in demand and she doesn't need new pictures. But, most of the time, if they like the photographer's work and know that he will give the model some good images to use in her book, they arrange to just exchange the model's services for the pictures. So no one pays anyone ... everyone (including the makeup and hair artist and stylist) has new pictures for their books. It's a win-win situation.

 

[wednesdays child]

Thank you for that post Bette ^^ it is confusing when people post as if there are rules set in stone for "testing" as if anything outside that is illegitimate.

how testing works, varies from agency to agency, place to place, and with different levels and types of models and photographers.. so it is hard to give exact information without knowing a complete situation.

 

[model_mom]

Source.... NYMAG.com/the cut

The Cut

Diane Kruger’s Lips Are Frosty Cool; Lady Gaga’s Hair Turned Purple
Sports Illustrated Model Melissa Haro on Why Modeling Is SO HARD

Karl Lagerfeld Advises Sigrid Agren on Sleeping, Modeling

4/16/09 at 5:00 PM

Photo: Getty Images


Model Sigrid Agren interviewed Karl Lagerfeld at a fitting for his Karl Lagerfeld show in Paris. Judging from her interview, she seems pretty precocious for an 18-year-old model. Witness:

Agren: Okay. How do you look when you wake up? Lagerfeld: That’s why I sleep alone. My hair is curly, and that’s why I have my ponytail. I look like a madman, like something out of a horror movie! But I'm very impeccable and clean before I go to bed. It’s just like right before I’m going out. When I was a child, my mother always told me that you could wake up in the middle of the night and be deathly sick, so you always have to be impeccable. I laugh about it now, but I think everyone should go to bed like they have a date at the door.​

Then she asked him for advice on being a supermodel. Because, let's face it, after Gisele who is the next supermodel? Sure there are lots of great models around the age of 20 — Chanel Iman, Jourdan Dunn, Karlie Kloss — who are great, but who has longevity? Can a girl like Agren be the next Claudia, Naomi, or Cindy? Karl told her what the secret is:

Lagerfeld: It's not being perfect. What one needs is a face that people can identify in a second. That’s why the girls who were famous in the ‘90s can still work for advertising. People know their faces. The little blonde Russian, Sasha (Pivovarava), has a face people can remember instantly, but for other models today, people think, Is she this one or that one? It’s very difficult, but, you see, in fact there is no advice, because all circumstances are very different. It depends on what you are ready to give, the kind of life you bring, what may be exciting or disappointing … You can’t accuse anyone of not doing enough to help you, because, besides yourself, there’s nothing anyone can do. You have to be given what’s needed by nature, and what’s needed is to bring something new. But it’s the most … (hits hand on table) unjust … (hits hand on table) thing in the world.​

So, all you ladies who went to the America's Next Top Model casting, got rejected, and cried, remember, modeling chooses you. You can't choose it. Love your genes and move on.
Sigrid Interviewed Karl Lagerfeld for Interview Magazine [New York Model Management]


By: Amy Odell