The Vegetarian & Vegan Thread

[chanelnumber5]

chanelnumber5,

Just start slow and if you really want to keep eating eggs and cheese, go ahead. Don't force yourself if it doesn't feel right. I was a vegan for a couple of years and it was too difficult for me. I really admire anyone who is able to stick with it though. Good luck!!

Thanks for the advice The most major problem at the moment is my mom, she wont let me turn vegan, mainly because theres a history of (in some cases severe) osteoporosis in my family (my grandmother has it, my mum will get it, I will most likely get it as it runs in the family) plus I'm already skinny and she thinks I'll get too thin if I go vegan So I think what I'm going to do is to try to cut down on the dairy products I eat. I don't know if I'll ever manage to become a complete Vegan, but I think I'll end up the more Vegan end of Vegetarian, which means that I can still have cheese and eggs and other occassional treat without forcing myself into Veganism and then hating myself for breaking my Veganism. I think it is a case of adapting yourself to what you feel best with and I suppose even if its just a little dairy I cut down on then atleast I could be making a tiny difference to the poor cows (I never reaslised how cruel the dairy industry is I feel so mean ) Are dairy goats treated any better? (i know it sounds silly but it is a smaller scale industry so I though it could be). The milk and cheese we get is organic and the eggs we get are free range, which is a little better I suppose

 

[wings]

me and my mom are always fighting because i don´t want to eat ANY animal. she doesn´t get it!
i think it´s disgusting to know what i eat was alive once.

and guess what today she said "real vegetarians eat fish" and i was like no way and she yes they do
i mean where is the logic? vegetarian don´t eat animals and fish is an animal.

of course i know there are different kinds of vegetarians, but i think she means the ovo-lcto-vegetarians, which definitely don´t eat fish

 

[Sweets]

there arent "many kinds of vegetarians" really, explain to your mother, that the definition of a vegetarian, is an individual that does not eat flesh from animals, that includes mammals, insects, poultry, and sea food etc.

 

[modelbehavior228]

I am a lacto-ovo veggie. I eat everything except animal meat. I can't even eat twinkies cause they have chicken/beef fat/lard in them! I read the ingredients on EVERYTHING. If it has meat, broth, or animal fat in it, I don't eat it. Now, if the fat comes from dairy, like milk or cheese, or if it comes from eggs, I'll eat it. To me, that isn't meat cause you don't kill the animal. I am not really even into animal rights so much as I am convinced meat kills you. So, if it is meat or fat from the MEAT of the animal (not dairy products) I won't eat it.

 

[paigey463]

everytime I get sick my father blames it on me being a vegetarian which is completely not true..I think I am healthier being a vegetarian. oh well, at least I feel great

 

[palyxa]

there arent "many kinds of vegetarians" really, explain to your mother, that the definition of a vegetarian, is an individual that does not eat flesh from animals, that includes mammals, insects, poultry, and sea food etc.

There are many different kinds of vegetarians. The definition of vegetarianism varies from source to source, but according to the health.gov site:

Vegetarian—There are several categories of vegetarians, all of whom avoid meat and/or animal products. The vegan or total vegetarian diet includes only foods from plants: fruits, vegetables, legumes (dried beans and peas), grains, seeds, and nuts. The lactovegetarian diet includes plant foods plus cheese and other dairy products. The ovo-lactovegetarian (or lacto-ovovege-tarian) diet also includes eggs. Semi-vegetarians do not eat red meat but include chicken and fish with plant foods, dairy products, and eggs.

Marcy,
I made it for dinner this evening, it was yummy! I used a slightly different recipe. After it was done, I dipped the slices in wheat flour and sauted them, so so good .

CHICKEN-STYLE SEITAN

3 cups vital gluten flour
1/2 cup whole wheat flour
1/2 cup unbleached flour
3 tablespoons poultry seasoning (equal parts ground sage, ground rosemary and thyme)
3 tablespoons nutritional yeast
3 1/3 cups hot water
1/4 cup shoyu or tamari or soy or Braggs liquid aminos

Mix dry ingredients thoroughly. Mix water and shoyu together then add to the dry ingredients. Stir quickly and thoroughly, then knead with your hands until liquid is totally incorporated (about 30 seconds). Form these into cylinders or logs. You may also wrap them in cheese cloth to hold the shape and tie with twine (leave some room for expansion). Let rest for 15 to 30 minutes - some liquid may drain out. Meanwhile, prepare broth.

12 cups water
3 tablespoons poultry seasoning
4 tablespoons nutritional yeast
1/2 cup shoyu or tamari or braggs
1 large onion, sliced
3 bay leaves

Mix all and bring to a boil. Add seitan, bring to a simmer, cover and simmer for 60 to 90 minutes depending on the size of your pieces.

http://www.veganforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4728&page=2

If you need any help with the recipe, let me know.

 

[misssakura]

mainly because theres a history of (in some cases severe) osteoporosis in my family (my grandmother has it, my mum will get it, I will most likely get it as it runs in the family) plus I'm already skinny and she thinks I'll get too thin if I go vegan

Actually there's no proof that drinking milk is beneficial for bones really. All the major studies have been performed by the milk industry...just moderate it I reckon. Maybe cut it down. Actually what I do is I control what I eat when I go out, I try not to eat dairy when I'm out. But at home I buy organic or from farms that I've visited. And I don't drink milk.

 

[dsq]

Actually there's no proof that drinking milk is beneficial for bones really.

i don't know where you found that information, but milk is a great source of calcium, vitamin D, and phosphates more so today than before due to fortification and these nutrients are especially important in maintaining bone health. below are some studies which show the benefits of dairy products such as milk and bone mass maintenance. obviously for those that cannot tolerate milk or refuse to drink it, they can still use alternative sources such as soy milk, vegetables, and calcium/vitamin-d supplementation; however, milk is still one of the cheapest and best sources of nutrients for the bones.

Bone. 2006 Oct;39(4946-53. Epub 2006 May 24.

In conclusion, calcium-vitamin-D(3)-fortified milk may represent an effective strategy to maintain bone strength by preventing endocortical bone loss and slowing the loss in cortical vBMD in elderly men.

J Bone Miner Res. 2006 Mar;21(3397-405. Epub 2005 Dec 19.

CONCLUSIONS: Supplementing the diet of men >50 years of age with reduced-fat calcium- and vitamin D3-enriched milk may represent a simple, nutritionally sound and cost-effective strategy to reduce age-related bone loss at several skeletal sites at risk for fracture in the elderly.

Clin Ter. 2005 Jan-Apr;156(1-247-56.

Lactose intolerance may determinate calcium malabsorption or may decrease calcium intake by elimination of milk and dairy products

Arq Bras Endocrinol Metabol. 2006 Aug;50(4685-93.

The best source of calcium is dairy foods, largely because the disorders concerned depend upon multiple nutrients, not just calcium, and dairy provides a broad array of essential nutrients in addition to calcium, and at low cost.

 

[misssakura]

From the study I've done, it seems that natural plant sources of calcium are better absorbed by the body and healthier for growing bones. Of course opinion is always divided but here is another side of the debate:

http://www.babyreference.com/MilkingYourBones.htm

Personally where I live, a big bag of fresh spinach leaves is cheaper than a 1 litre bottle of milk, but maybe its different in other countries.

 

[kare2711]

everytime I get sick my father blames it on me being a vegetarian which is completely not true..I think I am healthier being a vegetarian. oh well, at least I feel great

My husband said that and I went "Yah right rubbish" on him.

I was reading a friend's blog and she was talking about how amazed she was, seeing how a live frog was killed in the process of preparing frog porridge. And someone chimed in to say how a fish was battered to death. I won't go into details but it only made me feel my decision is so right.

Anyway, do you all consider mussels/oysters/clams/abalone/scallop meat?

 

[chanelnumber5]

Actually there's no proof that drinking milk is beneficial for bones really. All the major studies have been performed by the milk industry...just moderate it I reckon. Maybe cut it down. Actually what I do is I control what I eat when I go out, I try not to eat dairy when I'm out. But at home I buy organic or from farms that I've visited. And I don't drink milk.

Yeh, I dont think milk is that benificial for bones either - I read something to do with that because milk is so high in protien that calcium has to be used to extract the calcium or something? Which seems crazy. Yeh, I'm going to try to cut down on dairy - milks not really a problem as I rarely eat it. If milk/cheese/yoghurt is organic does that mean the animals will have been better treated?

Anyway, last night I found an AMAZING pudding - baked cooking apples stuffed with sunflower seeds and ground up nuts and honey drizzled on top. It tasted fantastic, is healthy and filling! If anyone wants the recipe just ask and I can post it for you.

 

[Turquoise_]

I'd love to know the recipe. ^

 

[Meg]

Organic does not mean animals get treated better. And I don't think cutting out dairy entirely for animal welfare purposes is that great either. it's about being a smart informed shopper. I come from a province with a really strong agricultural background and history and i believe in supporting local and small farms who produce this sort of thing for a living and care passionately about what they do. Even meat can come from ethical sources - whether you agree with eating an animal that has been killed is another issue entirely. I'm a 'semi-vegetarian' but i don't eat meat that often since it's more expensive and i don't like cooking it. I'm not good at it. But when I do I try and get it from the local butchers and that sort of thing. Anyway, just my opinion.

 

[marcy248]

Marcy,
I made it for dinner this evening, it was yummy! I used a slightly different recipe. After it was done, I dipped the slices in wheat flour and sauted them, so so good .
If you need any help with the recipe, let me know.

Palyxa, you are a queen!!! It sounds wonderful. You've given me some confidence to try it as soon as possible. Thanks for the advice. I might message you if I run into problems.

 

[wings]

there arent "many kinds of vegetarians" really, explain to your mother, that the definition of a vegetarian, is an individual that does not eat flesh from animals, that includes mammals, insects, poultry, and sea food etc.

I tried a bunch of times. I gave her articles about vegetarian and the kinds. normalls she watches the pictures and give me the article back.
how can she be so rude?
I don´t blame her for eating meat too.

I don´t see why someone is agains eating meat but eats fish. stupid. both are animals! both live! i don´t wanna eat anything that ever lived!

 

[elegantly_wasted]

im so glad i found this thread... ive decided to go vegetarian... contrary to popular belief being a vegetarian is a flexible classification... unlike hardcore vegans...

so far it's been my first week... i've had no dairy, meat, or eggs... (unless it's found in products but im not big on processed foods..) however i do choose to eat tuna and such because of my gym training... and i need those protein enzymes to help my muscles recover... (lean muscle mass = permanent slim silhoutte)

 

[fashionista-ta]

Thanks for the advice The most major problem at the moment is my mom, she wont let me turn vegan, mainly because theres a history of (in some cases severe) osteoporosis in my family (my grandmother has it, my mum will get it, I will most likely get it as it runs in the family) plus I'm already skinny and she thinks I'll get too thin if I go vegan So I think what I'm going to do is to try to cut down on the dairy products I eat. I don't know if I'll ever manage to become a complete Vegan, but I think I'll end up the more Vegan end of Vegetarian, which means that I can still have cheese and eggs and other occassional treat without forcing myself into Veganism and then hating myself for breaking my Veganism. I think it is a case of adapting yourself to what you feel best with and I suppose even if its just a little dairy I cut down on then atleast I could be making a tiny difference to the poor cows (I never reaslised how cruel the dairy industry is I feel so mean ) Are dairy goats treated any better? (i know it sounds silly but it is a smaller scale industry so I though it could be). The milk and cheese we get is organic and the eggs we get are free range, which is a little better I suppose

Yes, buying organic is intended to be better for the animals as well. However some mfrs (such as HORIZON) continue to use factory farm methods instead of properly following organic guidelines. I buy Organic Valley and Promised Land dairy products, and I believe they are both ethical.

And you're right, a free range chicken has an entirely different life from one on a factory farm.

I had quite a bit of goat's milk as a child from various friends who had goats you could count on one hand, practically members of the family. Not sure where you live, but it's very often possible to make arrangements directly with farmers if you're concerned about the stuff from the store.

Btw, I made this corn fritter casserole from Cooking Light for New Year's & it's quite good:

http://www.estarcion.com/gastronome/archives/001854.html

PS If you're interested in direct sourcing of milk, let me know & I'll look up a website for you.

 

[fashionista-ta]

Here's a link that discusses the relationship between organic standards and animal welfare: http://www.organicconsumers.org/articles/article_1183.cfm

 

[kisa]

I tried a bunch of times. I gave her articles about vegetarian and the kinds. normalls she watches the pictures and give me the article back.
how can she be so rude?
I don´t blame her for eating meat too.

I don´t see why someone is agains eating meat but eats fish. stupid. both are animals! both live! i don´t wanna eat anything that ever lived!

I don't understand why you think she is being so rude, there ARE different types of vegetarians. I am a vegetarian too, and I think you will need to come to the realization that you have made a choice and not everyone is going to agree with it, I'm sure there are things other people do that you don't agree with, this is the same. I would assume someone who is against eating meat but eats fish might do it because fish aren't mammals, maybe they personally don't feel the same way about fish as they do about mammals, maybe they need a lean source of protein but still want to do SOME good, either way, in judging them, I hope you realize you are acting exactly the same as your mom. I hope you don't take this as a personal attack, it's not meant to be, I just think you are judging your mom very harshly.

 

[fashionista-ta]

^ I know people who eat some chicken but never beef who describe themselves as vegetarian

I think maybe we don't have enough words to describe the elimination of meat from the diet, and so people use this word because it's the only one we have. Mary Tyler Moore says "nothing with a face." (So oysters would be OK I guess, even though they are clearly animal vs vegetable or mineral ) People who eat fish I assume draw the line at warm-blooded mammals. It's kinda like religion, everyone has her own approach I think in practice the word means that a person is somewhere on this path.

I'm not a vegetarian, but sometimes think of a meal as "vegetarian" when in fact it wouldn't pass technical muster ... for example, when I cook field peas with onions and some chicken broth. No meat though