Who do you consider model icons?

[OriginalSin]

No one was really using the Supermodel term until like the mid-80's(Although I've seen it in print in like 71 or 73----sorry Janice). So I feel for the earlier girls like Christie, Iman, Twiggy, etc. So although she wasn't undeniably dubbed that like Naomi,Linda,Christy,Cindy right away she would've been more associated with it if she came along a little later. She was so popular that if you didn't look like her, you would have a hard time(blond blue eyed all american thing--oh how I don't like it). But she got the covers, commericals, ads, contracts, etc! She is still on covers. She wasn't high fashion, but as far being known as taking things to another level money & fame wise she is important. She was even called one of the 200 greatest pop icons, which sealed the deal for me.

ah yes, thought as much. yeah, you're definitely right about the term itself being used in the mid-80s which is why i guess iman and twiggy etc arent usually referred to as the first supermodels even though they clearly were and came before the trinity + cindy, etc. christie b. is definitely relevant, esp in terms of fame/popularity, money made, etc i mean there's a reason cover girl is using her once again for their campaign.

 

[SiennaInLondon]

thats a really interesting point about the language thing. i never thought about it, but all the major supermodels (like the top 5 or 6) do speak english--well more specifically come from english speaking countries. and re: christie brinkley is american and i believe she is considered one of the 5 original supermodels (along with cindy, christy, linda, and naomi), though someone can feel free to correct me on that.

Ah globalisation. I still can't make out whether it is a sad thing or not that everyone pretty much has to speak English to get by these days... But the thing is Gisele speaks very decent English and yet you never hear her on those public service announcements like Christy. Still I suppose she is at a different point in her career.

 

[OMIFAN9]

Was that the Gia era? I mean I have heard of other supermodels of the day... that is what an icon has to do -appeal to the layman

It's like jazz or classical they won't always come to you, you usually will have to go to it which is inevitable b/c they were popular forms of music. To get rid of them or consider them none important b/c you don't see it all the time or don't like it would hurt so many things. With that said, Christie does or will come to you if you would open you eyes. Yes, she was of the Gia era and if you've read or seen anything of Gia or most models of the day or even the girls like Cindy, Christie is mentioned because she set a standard of beauty. Janice, Iman, & Gia(in a way and for a short time) broke through that blond barrier, but it was hard because she was just it if you will.

 

[SiennaInLondon]

With that said, Christie does or will come to you if you would open you eyes.

Ummm eyes open wide and nuthin' Maybe I need more brainwashing...

Also I don't think you can compare old-school models to classical music. Modelling is firmly entrenched in popular culture whereas the appeal of classical music has different social imlications

 

[OMIFAN9]

ah yes, thought as much. yeah, you're definitely right about the term itself being used in the mid-80s which is why i guess iman and twiggy etc arent usually referred to as the first supermodels even though they clearly were and came before the trinity + cindy, etc. christie b. is definitely relevant, esp in terms of fame/popularity, money made, etc i mean there's a reason cover girl is using her once again for their campaign.

But also girls like Cindy, Naomi, Christy & Linda deserve it b/c the public & business called them that. They didn't do a Janice and was like "We are it". They also deserve it possibly a bit more b/c they took modeling to another lever money, diversity & fame wise. They did it all Runway and Print & than some. Which is a significant issue b/c most of the girls before did one or the other. The older girls also just took what was given like money or power wise, which wasn't alot. The Supers said "We want this or that, and some of the Shine" and they got it. They thought for themselves made their money and told everyone to shove it if you very giving them a hard time. They just took it over. They made you know who they were that's why they deserve it. They commanded the money, power & respect b/c they had that thing whatever it is(star quality if you will). Photo Credit: Lindbergh

 

[SiennaInLondon]

Janice, Iman, & Gia(in a way and for a short time) broke through that blond barrier, but it was hard because she was just it if you will.

That was an impressive feat by all accounts. Now people fight for the kooky models and the ethnic models but then even a different hair colour had a hard time getting through. Hopefully in a 100 years time, modelling will be all Dovile's and Karen Elson's and Erin O'Connors

 

[OMIFAN9]

Ummm eyes open wide and nuthin' Maybe I need more brainwashing...

Also I don't think you can compare old-school models to classical music. Modelling is firmly entrenched in popular culture whereas the appeal of classical music has different social imlications

Like 90's fan would say you just don't get it. I was making an example read between the lines. And ah yes, brainwashing is not my job its something I'm seeing alot of on this board ----No Names.

 

[SiennaInLondon]

The Supers said "We want this or that, and some of the Shine" and they got it. They thought for themselves made their money and told everyone to shove it if you very giving them a hard time.

I think it was more a case of their opulent beauty just working with the era -ie the 80s power suits and greedy mentality and sheer agressive capitalism. You needed a Linda for that with her classical and yet agressive arched brows -imagine Lisa Cant back then. It just wouldn't have worked. Of course they acted like divas but they situation allowed them to and praised them for it. Iman and co were a little too early

 

[SiennaInLondon]

Like 90's fan would say you just don't get it. I was making an example read between the lines. And ah yes, brainwashing is not my job its something I'm seeing alot of on this board ----No Names.

Baby it's fashion not world peace! You seem to intensely dislike a lot of people liking Kate Moss or the waifs or whatever and you imply that there is a conspiracy on this board but all the while you use phrases like "you just don't get it" or "open your eyes" which reveal a far more inflexible point of view. Also I was reading between the lines which is how I recognised that the analogy didn't work

 

[OMIFAN9]

I think it was more a case of their opulent beauty just working with the era -ie the 80s power suits and greedy mentality and sheer agressive capitalism. You needed a Linda for that with her classical and yet agressive arched brows -imagine Lisa Cant back then. It just wouldn't have worked. Of course they acted like divas but they situation allowed them to and praised them for it. Iman and co were a little too early

Not quite, someone(models) has to speak up. Thats what the Supers did they asked for more attention, avenues, in-put & money. The girls before(were beautiful & talented as well) the 1980's could've gotten more attention & money had they thought a bit more and realized the power they had. Many of them just gave their money to their boyfriends or got taken advantage of. It was "Shut Up Be Pretty", but most of that changed with the Supers. Now its starting to go back to the way it was before the Supers. Thats the difference if you are too afraid to speak up or in the dark how can you achieve.

 

[OMIFAN9]

Baby it's fashion not world peace! You seem to intensely dislike a lot of people liking Kate Moss or the waifs or whatever and you imply that there is a conspiracy on this board but all the while you use phrases like "you just don't get it" or "open your eyes" which reveal a far more inflexible point of view. Also I was reading between the lines which is how I recognised that the analogy didn't work

If only! And the things I'm being called here by you are pretty uncalled for. Who even brought up moss, but there ya go again. I have been pretty fair, no comparisons of other models,etc like you. I'm just saying look at the whole thing, what's so wrong with that.

 

[SiennaInLondon]

Not quite, someone has to speak up! Thats what the Supers did they asked for more attention, avenues, in-put & money. The girls before(were beautiful & talented as well) the 1980's could've gotten more attention & money had they thought a bit more and realized the power they had. Many of them just gave their money to their boyfriends or got taken advantage of. It was "Shut Up Be Pretty", but most of that changed with the Supers. Now its starting to go back to the way it was before the Supers. Thats the difference if you are too afraid to speak up or in the dark how can you achieve.

Sadly I don't think it is the women in the modelling industry have the power which is what you seem to suggest. Yeah it is the only industry in which women are better paid than men but that means little compared to the millions the sharholders are getting. The bigger they are, the more chance they have of riding the industry and emerging unscathed but even then they are used by the powerful business men and moguls. Longevity didn't help Kate Moss recently but I suspect her friends will keep her career strong in the long run. Longevity hasn't been helping the blackening of Naomi's name by the media. If the girls had said anything that threatened the people who gave them their careers (whether it was Meisel, or their management or the fashion houses or even the media) we wouldn't know their names today. Somebody more powerful than them liked them and that is basically it. In that sense, Gisele may become an true icon (I think she is already) depending on whether the business decides to bless her.

 

[OMIFAN9]

Sadly I don't think it is the women in the modelling industry have the power which is what you seem to suggest. Yeah it is the only industry in which women are better paid than men but that means little compared to the millions the sharholders are getting. The bigger they are, the more chance they have of riding the industry and emerging unscathed but even then they are used by the powerful business men and moguls. Longevity didn't help Kate Moss recently but I suspect her friends will keep her career strong in the long run. Longevity hasn't been helping the blackening of Naomi's name by the media. If the girls had said anything that threatened the people who gave them their careers (whether it was Meisel, or their management or the fashion houses or even the media) we wouldn't know their names today. Somebody more powerful than them liked them and that is basically it. In that sense, Gisele may become an true icon (I think she is already) depending on whether the business decides to bless her.

They did have power, of course I didn't say they were the most powerful in the business(come on). But they had the power like no other generation(that's what we were comparing with other models of different generations, not photographers, etc). Now there was a time when the girls(The Supers only) were more equally and/or better known and important over the designer, photographer, etc. No names but "I want 75,000" or "I'm not working if so and so is" or showing up when you felt like it or not at all or booking a girl you didn't like just b/c others will pay more attention. If that isn't influence & power than I don't know what is.

 

[SiennaInLondon]

If only! And the things I'm being called here by you are pretty uncalled for. Who even brought up moss, but there ya go again. I have been pretty fair, no comparisons of other models,etc like you. I'm just saying look at the whole thing, what's so wrong with that.

I am not entirely sure what the 'if only' refers to but as far as I know I have been a lot more polite than you. I would never tell someone that "if only they opened their eyes" they would see the truth. Concepts like truth are subjective anyway. Also in the Naomi Campbell thread I was agreeing with you that she was trully iconic and I compared her to Kate because the comparison is inevitable. You basically said "I don't want to hear any more of Kate in this thread". Firstly it isn't your thread, it is a community, secondly I reiterate I was agreeing with you. I brought up Kate Moss (as well as many other models if you will read back my posts) because you seem to dislike any mention of her and I was pointing out this fact. Yes I am a Kate fan but I mention her no more than you mention your beloved 'Holy Trinity'. They are both acceptable points of reference because they both had huge impacts on modelling.

What's wrong with 'saying look at the whole thing'? Well, the problem lies in well you don't fulfil the promise of your decree. How can you look at the bigger picture when you don't make comparisons or references? Surely everything in life is relative, it is how we analyse things, how we approach the future.

 

[SiennaInLondon]

They did have power, of course I didn't say they were the most powerful in the business(come on). But they had the power like no other generation(that's what we were comparing with other models of different generations, not photographers, etc). Now there was a time when the girls(The Supers only) were more equally and/or better known and important over the designer, photographer, etc. No names but "I want 75,000" or "I'm not working if so and so is" or showing up when you felt like it or not at all or booking a girl you didn't like just b/c others will pay more attention. If that isn't influence & power than I don't know what is.

I know what you are saying but having a power granted to you by an entity that is....well more powerful, calls into question whether the power is actually yours. The image of Linda asking for $10000 to get out of bed fitted in with, not her conception of the era, but of the businesses. They won all the way. To them Iman was this graceful beauty from the desert (they ignored her education and middle class background) and she was forced into the mould that that entailed

 

[OMIFAN9]

I am not entirely sure what the 'if only' refers to but as far as I know I have been a lot more polite than you. I would never tell someone that "if only they opened their eyes" they would see the truth. Concepts like truth are subjective anyway. Also in the Naomi Campbell thread I was agreeing with you that she was trully iconic and I compared her to Kate because the comparison is inevitable. You basically said "I don't want to hear any more of Kate in this thread". Firstly it isn't your thread, it is a community, secondly I reiterate I was agreeing with you. I brought up Kate Moss (as well as many other models if you will read back my posts) because you seem to dislike any mention of her and I was pointing out this fact. Yes I am a Kate fan but I mention her no more than you mention your beloved 'Holy Trinity'. They are both acceptable points of reference because they both had huge impacts on modelling.

What's wrong with 'saying look at the whole thing'? Well, the problem lies in well you don't fulfil the promise of your decree. How can you look at the bigger picture when you don't make comparisons or references? Surely everything in life is relative, it is how we analyse things, how we approach the future.

Believe what you want. And you have no right to talk about being right or whatever, you're actions are way more questionable. No I never claimed Naomi's thread. I only said No speaking of Kate is b/c it's just not fair, if you wanted to talk of moss than she has plenty of threads. I don't come on Kate things and say so and so is better or blah blah blah or she is a joke for instance(remember that). Why waste time. If anything I was saving her from getting trashed, b/c not everyone likes or wants to see her deal with it. I was only trying to calm everyone down. Me only mentioning The Trinity was too even things out with what I'm seeing on the board, if they were in my face all the time than whats the point in constantly bringing them up, which you love to do with moss. Trust me I don't only mention them come on.

I will say it again, this has no place here at this thread either. So I don't plan to bring up this moss thing or whatever it is you have against me.

 

[jomiller90]

i·con (

k

n

) from dictionary.com
n.

1. also i·kon (
   
   
   k
   
   n
   
   )
   1. <LI type=a>An image; a representation.
   2. A representation or picture of a sacred or sanctified Christian personage, traditionally used and venerated in the Eastern Church.
2. An important and enduring symbol: “Voyager will take its place... alongside such icons of airborne adventure as The Spirit of St. Louis and [the] Bell X-1” (William D. Marbach).
3. One who is the object of great attention and devotion; an idol:
4. Computer Science. A picture on a screen that represents a specific file, directory, window, option, or program.

I think that there are only a few models that fit the profile, obviously I am not talking about the computer science reference. But an important and enduring symbol (KATE MOSS) and one who is the object of great attention and devotion (KATE MOSS) again.

I am sure there are plenty of other iconic models, but she transcends barriers in all countries is universally recognised and has been very important to the fashion industry.

I am not saying there are no other iconic models though just none that come to mind for me. Maybe Cindy Crawford... depending what happens in the next few years.

 

[yourbestfriend]

the whole models.com icon list is icons of today, Iman, Christie Brinkley and all those other models arent doing modelling work right now, if they still were such as Linda then they would be put onto the list. The list represents"icon" models of now. not of the past.

 

[SiennaInLondon]

Believe what you want. And you have no right to talk about being right or whatever, you're actions are way more questionable. No I never claimed Naomi's thread. I only said No speaking of Kate is b/c it's just not fair, if you wanted to talk of moss than she has plenty of threads. I don't come on Kate things and say so and so is better or blah blah blah or she is a joke for instance(remember that). Why waste time. If anything I was saving her from getting trashed, b/c not everyone likes or wants to see her deal with it. I was only trying to calm everyone down. Me only mentioning The Trinity was too even things out with what I'm seeing on the board, if they were in my face all the time than whats the point in constantly bringing them up, which you love to do with moss. Trust me I don't only mention them come on.

I will say it again, this has no place here at this thread either. So I don't plan to bring up this moss thing or whatever it is you have against me.

I have nothing against you! I have given you karma for all those pictures of Naomi because it must have taken a long time and they are gorgeous. I am merely verbalising an antagonism I have felt from you. Why not discuss it rather than let it linger. When I was talking about being right, I was talking about the concept of truth not about MY being right. Forget your own advice of "read between the lines", why don't you start by reading the lines

Why are you on a mission to revolutionise this board? Heck there are just a lot of Kate Moss fans out there. You can't ever post more than the lot of them! If you don't want Kate Moss to be "in your face" don't join an online fashion community, don't read magazines and look up at billboards. I am pretty sure the poor woman meant you no offence all those years ago at JFK when she was spotted.... I don't bring Kate up because I am her stalker or whatever. I bring her up because she is often relevant.

Oh and there are no actions to be questionable... this is a (gasp) virtual forum. Also I doubt you are Kate's knightess (what is the girl of knight? Is there a girl of knight? ) in shining armour as she has more things to deal with at the moment than TFSers.

Thanks Jo for that definition! It was much needed

Thanks yourbestfriend for taking us back to the discussion!! I think an icon, and thus the MDC list, does not have to be of the 'now'. It turned out Christy or Iman or whomever weren't the icons people thought they would be. Longevity is hard to predict. Twiggy should definately be high on the list because she was an icon then and is one now. Grannies going to M&S probably recognise her.

 

[SiennaInLondon]

Ok where are the mods. Let me pm one