Your fur style - please read thread guidelines in post #1 before posting

[lithium]

^I think I can't find the right words...

But you just can't tell me that eating cheese is the same like wearing fur ( I am saying this the 5 time now...)

Is it really that hard to understand?

 

[tott]

lithium, do you know what goes on in the dairy industry, for instance...? There are no happy cows grazing on green slopes.

The reason I'm really questioning you here is because you're focusing on fur, but choose to ignore other animal welfare issues.

I accept that animals are used and abused. You are opposed to it when it suits you, and ignore it when it's inconvenient for you? I'm looking for consistency in your views, or more tolerance...

Edit: I might also add that the fur industry is tiny compared to the immense dairy industry, so while skinned animals make a more shocking visual statement, there is no question that more animals are suffering in the dairy industry...

 

[lithium]

grrr I am just a human being and can't be perfect in all things I am doing!!! But I know that this is just so wrong and I can't accept it!!
Of course those cows are not having a party in their barnstables, but I bet that most of them are better off than those fur bearing animals!!
aaand I am really trying to get this food from farmers who threat their animals appropriate to the species!!!

what you are saying is like ( really bad example, but the first thing that came to my mind
two starving kids are sitting on the street, you just have enough money to save one of them... so you descide to let both peg out, because you are looking for consistency... and accept it...

 

[tott]

I didn't realise we were discussing specific moral dilemmas...?

But what you are saying is that you condone animal suffering when it suits you, for example when you want to eat dairy? How is that different from someone who tolerates animal suffering because they want leather gloves, or a fur?

Yes, animals die to become gloves and furs. And obviously, cows don't die when they produce milk... But they are chained to their boxes, sickly because they are bred to produce as much milk as possible on the expense of their health, pumped full of antibiotics to stay "healthy". The food they get is far from natural; loads of proteins, and little or no grass or hay. Dairy cows usually have chronic diaorrhea because their feed is so wrong for their digestion.

Finally, I have to say that it's great that you try to find good sources for your food! But is that different from someone who buys furs from the local fur farmer who treats his animals well?

 

[stilettogirl84]

My personal belief on fur is the same as eating meat. It's my choice, no one else's. I respect people who choose not to eat meat, wear fur, etc. Therefore, I expect respect for my choices.

You go girl!! Thats exactly how I feel

 

[tangerine]

Unless you're a Buddhist monk, living up a mountain and powering your computer on a secret elixir of yak's milk, your ecological footprint is probably being contributed to by quite a lot more than your fur/leather/meat consumption...

Yak exploiter!

 

[Tatika]

You know, it's a bit of a slippery slope to defend using or killing animals based upon the relative "usefulness" of their deaths...

I'm sick of seeing people wearing leather products protest about fur, and I don't think that meat-eaters can claim some kind of higher moral ground compared to fur-wearers.

The fact is that we don't need to eat meat, wear leather or wear fur. We also don't need to eat or drink dairy products or eggs; I bring this up because the animals in the industry aren't exactly living a grand life...

Most of us contribute to the exploitation of animals in one way or another.

The videos that supposedly expose the cruelty that goes on in the fur industry have been shown to be falsified to a large extent. PETA themselves have been implicated.

(And you won't get a 100 pairs of shoes out of the hide from one cow...)

Ok, you do have some very valid points, i will agree-but with all do respect, i feed myself to survive, i dont need a furcoat to survive. Although i am a meat, eggs,etc eater, i do make sure that where i buy my meat, etc is infact a place where the animals have been put down in a way that is respectful and in the least possible way painful- In the end what is REALLY being questioned is the respect for life- and one cant really deny that the videos shown on the PETA website are COMPLETELY void of any respect or reverance for the beauty of all life. You dont need to kill an animal to keep warm, you can shave a sheep, and use the fleece. Why is it so necessary to kill an animal? And as much as pro-fur enthusiasts may argue that much has been falsified, cruelty to animals is something the MONEY HUNGRY FUR INDUSTRY IS NOT BENEATH

i hope this isnt taken the wrong way, im not trying to pick a fight, but rather make a point...

 

[ShuggaStiletto]

^ I agree with both of you


To elaborate on that, my own thoughts are that :
I think fur is a gorgeous, interesting texture to experiment with, but when there are tons of faux furs out there that look exactly the same to real ones, I don't see the point in having to use the real one, knowing that a living thing had to suffer for my own fashion choice

 

[shadow]

My reasons for not wearing fur are not as altruistic as yours people.
I think a fur coat adds 10 year and 10 kg to any person .
I gave away my mother's black mink coat to a cousin.

 

[justinleaddict]

Well said, tatika..

Fashion itself could be argued as unnecessary.. but using animals for it is just wrong.

And on a sort of unrelated topic... you guys should try soy milk, it isn't bad

 

[allegra]

There's something about real fur that ages the wearer. A real fur coat is the kind of thing elderly women wear way more often than younger ones, so maybe that's part of it?

Also, the younger women I see wearing real fur also tend to wear too much makeup and they look sort of hard. I know that's a generalization and I'm sure there are attractive, young-looking women who wear it, but I only see that in runway photos - I never see it looking like that in real life.

Maybe they also look old because fur seems like it could get messed up easily and they're stressed out about it all the time?

 

[kanita]

Deffinately Yes, but not when it is from animals 'in the wild', like real leopard fur.

 

[kanita]

And I think it is hypocrite to say you're against fur when you eat meat and eggs and wear leather. It is basiclly all the same. You don't need fur, no but you also don't need leather and meet.
And there are a lot of people who say the think people and animals should be treated the same way, and that people are no beter than animals. But if you really question yourself like example: If there was a fire and you could save or your dog, you have owned for years or a little girl you have never seen before in your life, who are you going to save...? I'm gessing most people would choose the child? So ask yourself again...
The diverency between 'wild' and 'breeded' fur is that you destroy nature by hunting for animals, which is the same as vandalism.
But there is an exeption, for example African tribes that hunt for a living, that is there culture and I can not judge someones culture.

 

[Lovin_It]

agree

Coffee.... here is a pic of it (I think)

http://www.hbo.com/city/img/look/carrie/season01/ep04_carrie_street_furcoat.jpg

 

[stilettogirl84]

And I think it is hypocrite to say you're against fur when you eat meat and eggs and wear leather. It is basiclly all the same. You don't need fur, no but you also don't need leather and meet.
And there are a lot of people who say the think people and animals should be treated the same way, and that people are no beter than animals. But if you really question yourself like example: If there was a fire and you could save or your dog, you have owned for years or a little girl you have never seen before in your life, who are you going to save...? I'm gessing most people would choose the child? So ask yourself again....

I could not have said it better myself! I'd give you Karma, but I too recently did, and they wont let me again.

 

[kanita]

We seem to agree on a lot of things, stilettogirl, and by the way, thank you for that sweet karma!

 

[allegra]

And I think it is hypocrite to say you're against fur when you eat meat and eggs and wear leather. It is basiclly all the same. You don't need fur, no but you also don't need leather and meet.

I understand the argument, but I have to disagree and here's why:

People shouldn't be made to feel like what they do isn't good enough when it isn't 100%, because it's still better than not caring about anything. It's good to minimize one's impact on, for example, the environment. There are a lot of statistics to show that if everyone cut their meat consumption by only 10%, it would reduce pollution and use of resources such as water. So if someone recognizes that and decides to eat less meat, the 10% is good and it's worth doing. If someone drives a car a bit less to cut down on air pollution, it isn't hypocritical that the car wasn't sold and replaced with a bike. If someone eats meat but won't wear fur, they're responsible for killing fewer animals. Calling that person a hypocrite is like saying it's wrong for them to not wear fur.

 

[Brazilian Girl]

I understand the argument, but I have to disagree and here's why:

People shouldn't be made to feel like what they do isn't good enough when it isn't 100%, because it's still better than not caring about anything. It's good to minimize one's impact on, for example, the environment. There are a lot of statistics to show that if everyone cut their meat consumption by only 10%, it would reduce pollution and use of resources such as water. So if someone recognizes that and decides to eat less meat, the 10% is good and it's worth doing. If someone drives a car a bit less to cut down on air pollution, it isn't hypocritical that the car wasn't sold and replaced with a bike. If someone eats meat but won't wear fur, they're responsible for killing fewer animals. Calling that person a hypocrite is like saying it's wrong for them to not wear fur.

Agreed 100%. You can never do "too little". Each little effort counts.


I've probably posted a few times on this thread and my signature says it all, but to sum it up: I, BG, think fur is vain and cruel. Thank you.

 

[tifa]

And I think it is hypocrite to say you're against fur when you eat meat and eggs and wear leather. It is basiclly all the same. You don't need fur, no but you also don't need leather and meet.
And there are a lot of people who say the think people and animals should be treated the same way, and that people are no beter than animals. But if you really question yourself like example: If there was a fire and you could save or your dog, you have owned for years or a little girl you have never seen before in your life, who are you going to save...? I'm gessing most people would choose the child? So ask yourself again...
The diverency between 'wild' and 'breeded' fur is that you destroy nature by hunting for animals, which is the same as vandalism.
But there is an exeption, for example African tribes that hunt for a living, that is there culture and I can not judge someones culture.

I'll have to disagree.

It is not basically all the same. The agriculture industry relies on cattle farming and all other produce. I have no idea about other countries but in the UK there are many farms that keep chickens and cattle in hospitable conditions in their life, on free range farms where they are not fed any old garbage. However, there are multitudes of farms that do not keep the animals like that. Seeing hens in battery conditions is horrific. I can't remember the name of the book but if I do later I will post it, it talks about the cruelty of cattle farming in the US and it is absolutely disgusting.

But meat is an age old industry that will never die. It's been part of our diets since human kind and it won't change. Supply and demand. All we can aim for when eating meat is that we buy organic, support companies that don't rely on cruelty.

Leather is a by product of the meat industry. If you eat meat I don't see any problem with wearing leather. Animals are not farmed for leather.

The fur industry however is cruelty for the sake of fashion. Something that genuinely doesn't matter in the scale of things, vanity. Animals bred, kept in the most horrific conditions, abused so that rich people can parade around the street showing off in it. Animals that are endangered species caught and slaughtered for the sake of fashion. So that's how I believe it's different. Yes, we don't need meat to survive but it will never go away. It is engrained in so many cultures. The difference between is that we could stop the unnecessary cruelty to many animals by bycotting fur products. Fur is not a necessity in the western world.

The example that you posed is extremely out of context and doesn't really work in your argument. Of course we would choose the child, because we are human beings and that is our instincts. However, we're complex beings. We can eat meat and not support cruelty. We can eat eggs and still be vegetarians. I don't believe it's so easy to put everything in one big box and label it cruelty when you don't know the facts.

 

[kanita]

I agree with you tifa that the way animals are breeded are is not the right way, for example the food animals are fed is desquisting and also unhealthy for the animals and humans. I understand and respect people who refuse to eat meet/ wear leather/ wear fur, also if people for example eat meat and do'n't wear fur. BUT, what I think is hypocrite, is that people don't respect the choises of other people. If you think wearing fur is wrong, don't wear fur, but don't throw blood/paint over other ones fur. I will not try to change your mind, I don't see the need and I don't think I will succed. I don't need to tell you what is right or wrong, I think people should deside for them selfes what is right or wrong. Human beings are complex indeed, we can do all kinds of things, but I try not to give in in to all those things. (I'm sorry if I sound unclear here, but my English isn't to great) What I mean is that I know our minds can think paradox things, like for example people can kill others if it is from a distance, like if you throw a bomb on a village from a plane and you don't see people die you don't feel like a murderer, but when you shoot someone you feel the quild of killing a human being. This is not really a choice, but a way your mind works, well, in this and other cases I refuse to accept this. To get back to our subject, people have a strange way to reacting on the way animals are being treeted, there are very little people who complain when a fly is being killed, but when a mink is killed for its skin, all of a sudden it is terible. I try to treat and think off all animals in the same way, a dog is no better than a fly in my eyes. And yes I don't consider killing a fly because it bugs me is the same as killing a dog, because a dog is someones property or could be someones property, so it would be vandalism.
(at least in western society)
so my conclusion would be: What you eat and wear is your choice, but respect the choice of other people!
(I have no time to check the spelling, so my excuse if it isn't clear)