A Materialistic Society?
- Thread starter shoexgal
- Start date
all right, it's time someone put things in a different perspective;
first, enough of this "if you buy designer clothes you are materialistic and are causing world's hunger." really, enough. first of all, I buy clothes because they are beautiful. i appreciate and follows designer's work not because i'm striking this or that pose, but because it speaks to me, because it makes me see and fell beauty. that is all. before i came to tfs i did not know a single person who either gave a crap about fashion to begin with, or had entirely different tastes from me. and you know what? we got along just fine, because they saw beauty elsewhere, and thus mentally could understand where i saw beauty. without beauty this world would die. without beauty this world would be ugly and dull. without appreciating beauty, one would not appreciate human life, because they wouldn't see the beauty of it. and if someone her on tfs can see the beatiful clothes i buy, because it supports the designer who brings the same beauty that i see, well more power to them. i do not show off here, i am happy and greatful that i am not alone in seeing beauty in clothes. it happens to come at a high pricetag? well, that's the price put in by highly qualified workers who have to survive in expensive contries they work in, fine by me. look at jurgi persoons, one of the most talented designers who had to go out of business, because his vision came at a price tag that he could not afford. look at haute couture, which Yohji Yamamoto had to abandon because there is no money to be made there. is that not a tastement that it's not all about greed?! for your information, designer clothes comprise 4%(!) of the apparel market. so, please put the blame elsewhere. put the blame on the Nikes and the Gaps of this world, because that's where it rightfully belongs.
Paul, you like to amuse us with statistics, but what does that do? have you changed anything? do you support a child in Africa by donating $2 a day? and how do you know where that money is going? how do you know that you are not enriching some African tyrant instead of feeding a child? what use is Bono's posing for Edun? why is that not called anywhere a marketing scheme? why is it that i haven't heard the break down of who gets what share of the profits off of that $200 pair of jeans? why is Carpe Diem being called gimmicky all of a sudden, because it has some support here (they never advertise, they just do their SMALL thing), and American Apparel is not, despite their initial resistance to unionizing? what use is i-D devoting half their magazine to multimillionares talking about ending poverty? Patrick Viera talking about how football educates people? WTF? He kicks the ball around for a multimillion dollar salary a year. I want to see his charity record, a real one, not the one done for tax purposes.
the change lies elsewhere, people. the change lies with the first world's governments turning the profits they extract (which are 20 times more than the formal aid they give back) from the third world back into the third world, in giving the third world education and ability to build. Sudan is going through genocide and the U.N. is quiet - that's a problem. me buying a $200 Ann Demeulemeester shirt is not.
first, enough of this "if you buy designer clothes you are materialistic and are causing world's hunger." really, enough. first of all, I buy clothes because they are beautiful. i appreciate and follows designer's work not because i'm striking this or that pose, but because it speaks to me, because it makes me see and fell beauty. that is all. before i came to tfs i did not know a single person who either gave a crap about fashion to begin with, or had entirely different tastes from me. and you know what? we got along just fine, because they saw beauty elsewhere, and thus mentally could understand where i saw beauty. without beauty this world would die. without beauty this world would be ugly and dull. without appreciating beauty, one would not appreciate human life, because they wouldn't see the beauty of it. and if someone her on tfs can see the beatiful clothes i buy, because it supports the designer who brings the same beauty that i see, well more power to them. i do not show off here, i am happy and greatful that i am not alone in seeing beauty in clothes. it happens to come at a high pricetag? well, that's the price put in by highly qualified workers who have to survive in expensive contries they work in, fine by me. look at jurgi persoons, one of the most talented designers who had to go out of business, because his vision came at a price tag that he could not afford. look at haute couture, which Yohji Yamamoto had to abandon because there is no money to be made there. is that not a tastement that it's not all about greed?! for your information, designer clothes comprise 4%(!) of the apparel market. so, please put the blame elsewhere. put the blame on the Nikes and the Gaps of this world, because that's where it rightfully belongs.
Paul, you like to amuse us with statistics, but what does that do? have you changed anything? do you support a child in Africa by donating $2 a day? and how do you know where that money is going? how do you know that you are not enriching some African tyrant instead of feeding a child? what use is Bono's posing for Edun? why is that not called anywhere a marketing scheme? why is it that i haven't heard the break down of who gets what share of the profits off of that $200 pair of jeans? why is Carpe Diem being called gimmicky all of a sudden, because it has some support here (they never advertise, they just do their SMALL thing), and American Apparel is not, despite their initial resistance to unionizing? what use is i-D devoting half their magazine to multimillionares talking about ending poverty? Patrick Viera talking about how football educates people? WTF? He kicks the ball around for a multimillion dollar salary a year. I want to see his charity record, a real one, not the one done for tax purposes.
the change lies elsewhere, people. the change lies with the first world's governments turning the profits they extract (which are 20 times more than the formal aid they give back) from the third world back into the third world, in giving the third world education and ability to build. Sudan is going through genocide and the U.N. is quiet - that's a problem. me buying a $200 Ann Demeulemeester shirt is not.
faust said:
Well you never know, it might help a few people learn a bit more about the state of the world. Also I had an exam yesterday called "Global Challenge", about the issues facing us, so I'd been reading that sort of thing all week. I was amazed by the scale of some of them, so I thought I'd share them.
I agree that its a big issue, it needs to be solved by government and multinationals, they probably just need some pressure from us to do so.
Obviously there is nothing that wrong with buying fashion, I do it and I can sleep at night. Its whether our society in general is materialistic, and I think it is. Nearly all of have more than we need for reasonable comfort, but its no one persons fault.
we decided to move this to the trendspotting area/forums becuase as an ongoing discussion it has to do more with 'consuming trends' than with designers and collections..
it wouldnt make much difference to members already participating in the 'debate' but it my attract more 'voices' from members interested in 'socio/economic' trends
enjoy
it wouldnt make much difference to members already participating in the 'debate' but it my attract more 'voices' from members interested in 'socio/economic' trends
enjoy
Paullw said:
I hope it helps, sure. And I'm glad the G8 decided to forgive the developing countries loans, it's a big step in untying their economic hands. I wish it would do something for Africa politically, but I don't see the move forward in the near future
travolta said:i appreciate paulw's insight/ opinions. we're all learning here
ok, you are learing some statistics. what's your next step, travolta? are you going to amuse liberal friends at parties with these statistics, or is that a call for some kind of action for you?
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faust said:I hope it helps, sure. And I'm glad the G8 decided to forgive the developing countries loans, it's a big step in untying their economic hands. I wish it would do something for Africa politically, but I don't see the move forward in the near future
I'm afraid that , being the cynic that I am , much of this so-called debt cancellation is actually convenient political spin , as I would NOT trust Tony Bliar any further than I could throw him , which in my present physical situation is not very far !!!
I also have my doubts about that buffoon Bob Geldof , who surprise surprise has started another convenient bandwagon rolling , though to where is anyone's guess , although his personal bank account would seem to be on that helter skelter itinerary , no matter how much the gentleman doth protest too much .
Africa will be helped when steps are taken to ensure that the majority of aid does not disappear into the personal Swiss bank accounts of the various African dictators , and the educated minorities of such countries in the way of doctors , nurses , teachers and the like , are not tempted to the affluent West to fill the vacancies in the health and education systems that cannot be filled by the indiginous population . As few as possible in these professions are trained by western governments , in order to save the money to provide tax breaks for the middle and upper classes , and of course provide a scarcity value in order to maximise remuneration in these premium professions .
I am sorry if everything seems like dust and ashes to me , but I have grown so utterly sick of hype and spin that yet another onslaught of same tends to stick in my craw .
faust, the discussion is not narrowed to designer's clothes, in my book, we are talking materialism and the developement of hysterical consumption.
of course we are all learning and exchanging travolta, thats why we keep discussing
kit, i wont even 'touch' the Africa problem ...something goes terribly bad in mama Africa, somehow the west is been blackmailing the whole continent for centuries now. Production could slowly 'move' there but the West is not trusting the warrior in the Africans ..good or bad? time will tell
whenever i think of Africa, i get guilt feelings for being born in Europe..
ahhh and please dont start me on sir Bob
promising to stay on topic now
of course we are all learning and exchanging travolta, thats why we keep discussing
kit, i wont even 'touch' the Africa problem ...something goes terribly bad in mama Africa, somehow the west is been blackmailing the whole continent for centuries now. Production could slowly 'move' there but the West is not trusting the warrior in the Africans ..good or bad? time will tell
whenever i think of Africa, i get guilt feelings for being born in Europe..
ahhh and please dont start me on sir Bob
promising to stay on topic now
Lena said:kit, i wont even 'touch' the Africa problem ...something goes terribly bad in mama Africa, somehow the west is been blackmailing the whole continent for centuries now. Production could slowly 'move' there but the West is not trusting the warrior in the Africans ..good or bad? time will tell
whenever i think of Africa, i get guilt feelings for being born in Europe..
ahhh and please dont start me on sir Bob
promising to stay on topic now
So do I .
travolta said:well i'm curious what are you doing??i'm not nearly as informed as you are. please enlighten us.
good job dodging
.i can tell you what i'm doing. i'm not playing a revolutionary. i am not pointing fingers and beating my chest in indignation while not doing anything about changing it.
faust said:good job dodging
i can tell you what i'm doing. i'm not playing a revolutionary. i am not pointing fingers and beating my chest in indignation while not doing anything about changing it.
wow, faust, why so aggressive?
i step away from my post for a few days and look what happens!
seriously, though - is the world falling apart because you buy nice clothes? no.
but do our individual choices as consumers make a difference? of course they do. if a corporation can't sell it, they won't make it.
i am resisting the urge to talk about what i do to try to live up to my ideals, not because i am not doing anything, but because the way the question was asked seems so....impolite. aggressive, like i said. although i don't feel like i have anything particular to hide, i don't like feeling like i have something to *prove* either.
tell you what faust - ask me nicely, and i'll answer the question.
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Don't you think we ALL feel somewhat guilty for the comfort of our lives , when there is so much in the world that unsettles our RELATIVE complacency .
We can only strive to live ethically , and if that means that from time to time one indulges oneself with a an Evisu cotton beanie hat or a Carpe Diem sweater , then so be it . They've not been made in sweatshops , unless , of course , that is part of the artisanal process .
I had to PM lena this afternoon and promise to lighten up .
Should we all make efforts in that direction ?
We can only strive to live ethically , and if that means that from time to time one indulges oneself with a an Evisu cotton beanie hat or a Carpe Diem sweater , then so be it . They've not been made in sweatshops , unless , of course , that is part of the artisanal process .
I had to PM lena this afternoon and promise to lighten up .
Should we all make efforts in that direction ?
Yes, yes, yes faust! Exactly what I said about beauty and multi-millionairs! I totally agree to everything you said in your long post above.
It's kind of like a problem in the Dutch educational system what has been put down in words on this page. The teachers talk about how to teach so much, that there's less and less teaching going on. Here we talk about what to do and who to blaim, but we are doing nothing to support either of these two issues. Not saying that it's a bad thing that we're discussing this. Hell no! I've learned a lot on how people stand in this global problem and I think it is a fascinating topic to think about and act to.
But to get back on the actual discussion. Just to keep it a bit fashiony, there's a Dutch expression that goes 'kleren maken de man' clothes make the man. Right now I am seeing it as following: Clothes make the man, man makes money, money makes the West, West destroys the rest, Bin Laden flies into WTC towers. This whole society is as disfunctional as my 1998 computer. The West has and is kind of digging it's own grave. America is taking a lot of scientists from China these days, because the US citizens aren't gifted enough to renew science or just lazy enough to do so. If this goes on (it's happening in my country too, so I read) the roles will turn and in a 100 years, this whole debate we are having is going the other way round. All hypothatically of course...but I thought it was an interesting connection I was making....
It's kind of like a problem in the Dutch educational system what has been put down in words on this page. The teachers talk about how to teach so much, that there's less and less teaching going on. Here we talk about what to do and who to blaim, but we are doing nothing to support either of these two issues. Not saying that it's a bad thing that we're discussing this. Hell no! I've learned a lot on how people stand in this global problem and I think it is a fascinating topic to think about and act to.
But to get back on the actual discussion. Just to keep it a bit fashiony, there's a Dutch expression that goes 'kleren maken de man' clothes make the man. Right now I am seeing it as following: Clothes make the man, man makes money, money makes the West, West destroys the rest, Bin Laden flies into WTC towers. This whole society is as disfunctional as my 1998 computer. The West has and is kind of digging it's own grave. America is taking a lot of scientists from China these days, because the US citizens aren't gifted enough to renew science or just lazy enough to do so. If this goes on (it's happening in my country too, so I read) the roles will turn and in a 100 years, this whole debate we are having is going the other way round. All hypothatically of course...but I thought it was an interesting connection I was making....
