Amber Heard Files for Divorce from Johnny Depp

[Not Plain Jane]

It may be that his behavior varies based on his partner, state of mind, whether he's been in a pirate movie recently

thanks, fashionista-ta, for making me laugh while reading through this quagmire of messiness.

 

[squilliam]

Considering how the media skews things in order to get higher ratings, and how this is basically a parasocial relationship between us and them. We don't personally know them. All we know is stuff from a biased media. Everything here is just opinion. I hope it's not true because it's one less battered woman and one less abuser of a man. I'm staying out of this

 

[Benn98]

I'm sorry, but I think the apologists are perhaps getting too preoccupied with the hypothetical component of this saga. In theory Amber's got a stronger case than any of the Polanski/Cosby/Woody victims. She's got hard proof, a supposed video recording, witnesses, and yet that's still not enough?
And if we're going purely on perception as opposed to actual proof, I'd say I'd still be more inclined to go with Heard instead of Depp. The character assassination carried out against Amber by Johnny's army of rescuers is really on another level. It's a classic case of narcissistic triangulation, only very covertly executed. By romanticising his image they're inadvertently trashing and diminishing hers! I suppose Tigerrouge is right in an abstract way - these type of cases does expose who we are, and how we view these type of situations. It seems society simply don't know how to deal with the flawed victim (it's like that Jodie Foster film, The Accused, never happened!).

 

[squilliam]

Goodness why am I getting into this again?

OK, the one witness who was her neighbor also happens to be her friend and a bridesmaid at her wedding, so she's not very credible. The police found no evidence of a fight, but they made the mistake of not checking Amber ' s body for any signs of abuse. I don't know if the video has been released, but most of the pictures don't prove much and the picture of her bruise shows no swelling which is somewhat suspicious (this is why blood splatter and bullet wounds and such are carefully examined, to see if the evidence is consistent with what supposedly happened). You're also getting the evidence from a very biased media about people you've never met and have no true idea what they're really like. You're letting emotions take over instead of using logic. It seems to be the case of if he's a man then he's guilty. The only reason this case is important is because it is about domestic abuse and is a serious and often overlooked problem, and many victims never get justice, be they the battered wife or the battered husband. And men and women will often have opposite opinions of what really happened. If you are giving the woman a right to a fair trial then you have to give the man tge same right, that is how equality works. You cannot assume the woman is the victim because they have been the victim throughout history, remember that there have been many cases of women killing and slandering before.

Otherwise, this is just a divorce and money battle between a delirious has-been and his bad actress trophy wife.

 

[fashionista-ta]

People hitting each other angrily once does happen, and it doesn't always mean anything. Women have slapped their husbands out of anger. Sometimes it really is an isolated incident. And yes there are people who only kill once, regret it, and never do it again, doesn't make them psychopaths. A person who tries a drug once doesn't make him a junkie. There's such a thing as an isolated incident.

I just feel that something is very off in this case, he doesn't seem perfect at all and has a past...but I dunno I just can't buy it. I believe what Cosby and Polanski did because there was sufficient evidence, but this just seems somehow quickly staged by her to get money. Yes I'm a feminist but men get abused by women too, and people usually laugh at it.

When one person physically assaults another, they have broken the law. That is what it means.

The phrase 'rule of thumb' came from the fact that under English common law, back in the dark ages, a man could permissibly beat his wife with anything the size of his thumb or smaller. So there are definitely a lot of people who believe that a 'small' instance of domestic violence means nothing, but thankfully a lot of them have been dead for centuries.

Today, men (and women--it's good you're concerned about that) are no longer allowed to abuse their partners behind closed doors as a private matter--at least in terms of the law. It's obviously still a rampant problem, and happens every day in every city, including Hollywood.

You are characterizing your viewpoint as healthy skepticism, and I agree that no one should draw final conclusions just yet. A few things are abundantly obvious, one of them being that team Depp has gone all out to demonize Amber. (Which certainly begs the question of how one would expect a decent man falsely accused to behave. Would it look anything at all like this? IMO it would not.)

As far as I know, the photos we've seen showing bruises were not released by Amber, they are photos taken of her by professional photographers on her way to court. (Can someone confirm this?) I am not a medical professional or a makeup artist, but to my eye it seems clear that her face is genuinely damaged. I find suggestions of her faking this damage disturbing. Someone can be violent without being mentally ill. However, someone faking injuries of this type, self-inflicting wounds, or having someone else do so--these would truly be acts of someone with a very serious mental disturbance, IMO. To see people jumping there as a more likely explanation than that Depp threw his phone is just ... words fail me.

 

[squilliam]

When one person physically assaults another, they have broken the law. That is what it means.

The phrase 'rule of thumb' came from the fact that under English common law, back in the dark ages, a man could permissibly beat his wife with anything the size of his thumb or smaller. So there are definitely a lot of people who believe that a 'small' instance of domestic violence means nothing, but thankfully a lot of them have been dead for centuries.

Today, men (and women--it's good you're concerned about that) are no longer allowed to abuse their partners behind closed doors as a private matter--at least in terms of the law. It's obviously still a rampant problem, and happens every day in every city, including Hollywood.

You are characterizing your viewpoint as healthy skepticism, and I agree that no one should draw final conclusions just yet. A few things are abundantly obvious, one of them being that team Depp has gone all out to demonize Amber. (Which certainly begs the question of how one would expect a decent man falsely accused to behave. Would it look anything at all like this? IMO it would not.)

As far as I know, the photos we've seen showing bruises were not released by Amber, they are photos taken of her by professional photographers on her way to court. (Can someone confirm this?) I am not a medical professional or a makeup artist, but to my eye it seems clear that her face is genuinely damaged. I find suggestions of her faking this damage disturbing. Someone can be violent without being mentally ill. However, someone faking injuries of this type, self-inflicting wounds, or having someone else do so--these would truly be acts of someone with a very serious mental disturbance, IMO. To see people jumping there as a more likely explanation than that Depp threw his phone is just ... words fail me.

As someone with a mental illness who knows several people with mental illnesses, you just offended me. It's good that you realize that someone doesn't have to be mentally ill to be evil, but someone doing something bad means they're mentally disturbed is not always the case. There are people with bad morals and a loose conscience. The thing is, there is no pre nup and she stands to get half of the marital assets, if domestic violence is involved then she gets more. That's why I'm skeptical, not just because of questionable evidence but she stands to gain a lot from this. I once heard a DA say "how could someone kill somebody else over $10,000? Well I've seen people kill for less"
People aren't all saints, everyone has a dark side. And when money is involved it can easily show up. And yes, I am a feminist who does care about women (and as a biology student know that men don't even matter that much and why they evolved to exist is still debated). I am a woman myself after all. But as a feminist I believe in equality between both genders, if the woman deserves a fair chance then so does the man. Tbh, you kinda seem to be a misanderist, I don't what's happened to make you that way, perhaps you were abused at some point (and I'm truly sorry if that's the case, because no one deserves that). But you have to see that there are two sides to every story. Btw, I'm sure everyone would be in prison for hitting someone once in their life. You're letting you're emotions cloud all judgement. You've jumped to the conclusion that I'm a mysogenist who cares nothing about women and knows nothing and have commented against me several times in two threads about me saying one bad thing about women, and I even apologized for offending you the first time. Yes women have been victimized over millenia, doesn't mean they haven't done some of the victimizing themselves. And just because women have been victimized so much, it does not mean to go after all men for it. Humans are not saints, they can easily be persuaded to do something bad, just look at psychology experiments from the past. You certainly do not have to be unhinged to do a very bad thing.

 

[lelaid]

The reaching in this thread is truly on another level. I just cannot, I'm going to have a stroke...

 

[squilliam]

I feel like I've been berated and belittled and told I'm an idiot, a mysoginist, and mentally disturbed for having a skeptical opinion. And that's not who I am at all. And clearly I'm the unpopular one here. I thought talking about fashion with people who love it would be fun, but clearly it's wrong to have any different opinion from the queen bees. I'll do you all a favor and revoke my membership.

 

[kokobombon]

^ No offense, but now you're victimizing yourself arent you? People are trying to explain their point of view just as you are, nobody called you names or was disrespectful to you on purpose (at least I dont remember reading any attacks).

I get your point of view and even I was sceptical at first because a lot of money is involved. Women claiming abuse is the easiest way to taint a man's reputation isnt it? even without any proof. But at this point I think there's a lot of proof on Amber 's side to at least doubt him. His team so far only managed to have his friends and employees discredit her. She on the other hand have texts, her injured face, pap pics of his injured hand that fits a timeline when he was abusive, a police call and his history of violence to back up her claim.

 

[Benn98]

As far as I know, the photos we've seen showing bruises were not released by Amber, they are photos taken of her by professional photographers on her way to court. (Can someone confirm this?) I am not a medical professional or a makeup artist, but to my eye it seems clear that her face is genuinely damaged.

The are two sets of images doing the rounds: one set being the pap shots showing the bruises as she's exiting the courtroom, and the rest were distributed by TMZ and People magazine. Whatever means they employed to obtain those pictures are not confirmed, meaning we don't actually know whether Amber or her team released them.

I'll do you all a favor and revoke my membership.

Don't you dare! Who will then provide the much needed voice of reason in the Model Behaviour thread?
On a serious note, I may disagree with you completely on this debate, but revoking your membership is a bit extreme. Simply worth it.

 

[sixtdaily]

I understand the people who think Amber is lying and just wants her money.
But if that's really what she wants, do you think she would take the risk to ruin her career and reputation, and to lie to the court (btw: the court can easily check if the texts are fake or not) just to have money, knowing she can already have a big check with a simple divorce?

And squilliam, stay with us

 

[tigerrouge]

I think there's no point being personally invested in debates that happen online. I enjoy them, but I set myself limits.

In any thread, I reply twice - maybe three times, if the subject is complex - and then I bow out.

It doesn't matter if I feel I have more to say, or if someone has refuted my arguments, I won't labour my own points. I don't want to fall down the hole of getting too attached to what's going on.

Setting myself limits encourages me to be more thoughtful in my writing, and I think it also helps spare me from the sense of personal aggravation that can arise from debates and arguments.

 

[Sweet rus]

I feel like I've been berated and belittled and told I'm an idiot, a mysoginist, and mentally disturbed for having a skeptical opinion. And that's not who I am at all. And clearly I'm the unpopular one here. I thought talking about fashion with people who love it would be fun, but clearly it's wrong to have any different opinion from the queen bees. I'll do you all a favor and revoke my membership.

Don't feel this way, I am with you on it. If he is indeed guilty, I will be the first person to cry shame upon him, as I think that abusing a woman is the worst thing a man can do to a woman, but I am quite surprised how quickly people start judging him and even Vanessa for standing up for her ex without enough evidence. I think it's easier to believe that it might be true given his behavior and problems in the past, but it alone doesn't stand as a strong proving fact in my opinion. Amber always strikes me as a person who would do things for money and fame (I might be wrong, but it just feels this way), and it seems to be a very easy way of getting these things through such accusations. I am not very familiar with American legal system, but why on earth does thins woman in her early 30's need a support in the amount of 40K monthly? They don't have children, why does she need financial support to begin with? Women wanted equality, so why do they think their ex should support them personally (not a child they could have had)? Also if he was abusing for years, why was she still with him?

 

[squilliam]

I admit I didn't revoke my membership because I couldn't figure out how to do it, but this is probably my last post.
Reading in between the lines is what made me feel I was berated, especially by fashionista-ta last post to me. And what she said about the whole mental thing drove me over the edge. I've been verbally abused since I was a teenager by family who wouldn't listen to anything I'd say, so yea it struck a nerve and got personal. I feel stupid for letting myself get into an online fault with people I don't know about people I neither know nor care about. I have a hard time speaking my mind,the anonymity of the internet and knowing this place has rules makes it a bit easier. I think it would be healthier for me to just back off and leave. Fashion got dull anyway

 

[fashionista-ta]

The reaching in this thread is truly on another level. I just cannot, I'm going to have a stroke...

Hey, at least no one has called you a misanderist Had to look it up as this is a first. But I agree, this has reached a level ...

Instead of a misanderist, let's call me someone obsessed with statistics. Statistically, it is far more likely that Amber is telling the truth than that she is not. Both are possible ... but one is overwhelmingly more likely.

I must say, squilliam, it was not my intent to 'drive you over the edge' or personally offend you. I feel I've expressed myself quite mildly considering. I also have completely refrained from any speculation in this thread about what might have caused you to arrive at your viewpoint. And I haven't seen anyone, including myself, call you the names you think you've been called.

 

[fashionista-ta]

Don't feel this way, I am with you on it. If he is indeed guilty, I will be the first person to cry shame upon him, as I think that abusing a woman is the worst thing a man can do to a woman, but I am quite surprised how quickly people start judging him and even Vanessa for standing up for her ex without enough evidence. I think it's easier to believe that it might be true given his behavior and problems in the past, but it alone doesn't stand as a strong proving fact in my opinion. Amber always strikes me as a person who would do things for money and fame (I might be wrong, but it just feels this way), and it seems to be a very easy way of getting these things through such accusations. I am not very familiar with American legal system, but why on earth does thins woman in her early 30's need a support in the amount of 40K monthly? They don't have children, why does she need financial support to begin with? Women wanted equality, so why do they think their ex should support them personally (not a child they could have had)? Also if he was abusing for years, why was she still with him?

Have mercy.

She's already famous. A very easy way for her to get an estimated $15M is for her to just sit back and let this divorce go through. If she were found to be lying, that would cost her her career. All of that tells me there is definitely something else going on here other than money + fame.

I take it from your question that you aren't familiar with domestic violence. It is extremely common for abused women to stay with their abusers, and for a variety of reasons, which include believing the situation is more or less normal, believing they deserve it, being afraid to leave, not knowing if they can make it on their own, concern for other members of the household, being sucked into the rollercoaster pattern of remorse/abuse, etc., etc.

 

[fashionista-ta]

The are two sets of images doing the rounds: one set being the pap shots showing the bruises as she's exiting the courtroom, and the rest were distributed by TMZ and People magazine. Whatever means they employed to obtain those pictures are not confirmed, meaning we don't actually know whether Amber or her team released them.

Thanks. I was thinking of the photos in the black dress, and later remembered there was another set of closeups that look like phone pix ...

 

[squilliam]

Why am I here again?
Ok, sorry for calling you what I did fashionista-ta. I think the reason I felt the way I did was because of the tone of voice I was reading posts in my head, I know it sounds weird, but I guess I was projecting things that weren't there.

As for the victims don't often leave their abusers thing, I do agree with you on that. They tend develop this weird Stockholm syndrome type mentality where they think they can change their man or that he really loves them and he's overly passionate so that's why he does what he does, also the abuser is manipulative and cam easily get the victim to believe this(the fifty shades books actually provide a lot of examples of this, since that book actually depicts abuse), especially if she has been weakened mentally or is already weak. Other times it's because they have nowhere to go alone. Also sometimes they're afraid their abuser will hurt them if they flee. It seems easy, this person is hurting me so I'll leave, but it's rather complicated. Ever had a bad friend that made you feel bad but for some reason you just weren't walking away? It's somewhat like that, you feel in denial and they're strong enough to make you feel that way.

 

[Littleathquakes]

However, someone faking injuries of this type, self-inflicting wounds, or having someone else do so--these would truly be acts of someone with a very serious mental disturbance, IMO. To see people jumping there as a more likely explanation than that Depp threw his phone is just ... words fail me.

It's called munchausen syndrome. I do believe that possibility exists, so I don't see that as far fetched as you do. That's not to say Depp didn't strike her. I definitely think he did. But maybe not to the point where it would leave a mark and perhaps she decided to run with it anyway.

 

[MulletProof]

.. maybe a mod should keep an eye on inflammatory posts over here (faux shock displays, spiraling down into personal territory, etc), that may even get a discussion shut down when it's not even two members..

Anyway, back to this show business matter .. yeah, I think koko made a pretty good summary on both sides. To be honest, I did feel confused with the People magazine pictures and the times for all these shots and what look like discrepancies.. that's not to say she's lying, if anything I'm the least qualified person to talk about how injuries scar, I'm the slowest at it. I think it is completely possible that he was abusive, and people forget that domestic violence isn't just hitting someone on the face, that's pretty much level 10, but you can humiliate, belittle and torment a partner on a daily basis, keep them on the edge of emotional distress, it is still abuse and there are consequences for it.. it is also very hard to prove.. partly because it is so intimate too and even light words like "starlet" may even have a comical meaning for a judge, not really for the two people in the same field, with daily professional tension projected on their personal relationship. I'm not surprised the ever so incompetent LAPD officers would walk in and probably thought more on how they just happened to be at Johnny Depp's apartment instead of trying to do their job.

I don't think Amber is a saint either... at all, and I do think she will take the physical abuse part as far as she can, I don't even think it's about money but not letting him walk out of this so easily.

One random thing I'm a bit grossed out by, but not at all surprised, is the amount of leeches these celebrities surround themselves by, unable to stand up for themselves even a little, you have the bodyguard "uhh please, boss..", the dumba*ss assistant fixing other people's relationship "he's a little lost boy, he says he's sorry for pushing you, also.. he cried", the friend "he's Johnny Depp, how could I ever disagree with him..". It's so sad. But I guess you also have to wonder what kind of person is okay with people that just worship you and never speak their mind. Probably the same narcissistic person that goes for a trophy wife.