Avant Garde - What does it mean?

[Multitudes]

Yes Artsxstatic... you are quite right... I just call this collective notion of the "avant garde", as you propose, "the politics of desire" or "the society of desire", to avoid any confusion with the modernist definition, which do derives from the notion of the singular subject... the narative, expressionism, symbolism, cubism etc... which has been proposed in thios thread...
The society of desire is not simply a loose, bohemian association of Parisian artists and thinkers. The revolution of desires doesn't aim to transform everyone into artists as such. Instead, the social domain itself becomes a collective field of aesthetic experimentation... One events by establishing "new" kind of relations and syntheses. Aesthetic experimentation is primarily directed to the "micropolitical" bonds between people, and people and environment. Here, there is no individual mastery over a specific domain(As the modernistic idea of the avant garde propose...).... All action is collective because because a collective way of living is constructed. The aesthetic paradigm replaces current forms of art and social life by means of a collective production of collectivity....
... So yes maybe a new renaissance... but let the renaissance be... A revolution of desires...

 

[Fade to Black]

ah, great thread...when I started reading it I didn't want to stop. faust and Multitudes I applaud both of you especially for making this thread enjoyable.

 

[Fade to Black]

And as a response to artxstatic and Multitudes: The thing that interests me about the concept of avant garde is perhaps the exact reason multitudes stated as being an impossibility: The appearance of escaping the basis of society which ultimately forms all ideas. I was always highly attracted to the idea of rebellion, whether it is possible or not, the idea of 'escape' from any kind of social boundaries...thus I disagree with the revolution of desires. I think even though a collective voice is stronger than an individual's progression, but it is the exact position of individuals who seek to distance themselves from any other conceivable existing form of art, behavior, or ideology that has always appealed to me...however strong their voice might be. I guess i've always considered myself 'on the fringes'...seriously back in school days if someone told everyone in a room to run a certain direction in one of those simon says games, i'd be the kid who would run the other way or just stand still to draw attention

Maybe that's the underlying philosophy behind my embrace of being eccentric - a subconscious need for attention and recognition that i'm not exactly going with the flow, so to speak...i've always had an affection for friction, tension and dissonance...translated to the art of fashion results in my love of things such as asymmetry, destruction and imperfection...which seem to be trademarks of those usually mentioned as being part of the fashion 'avant garde'

 

[fourboltmain]

I'd like to think of it as something like a torrent below. A good way to explain it would be underground music, but not the copy cats and hangers on, it's more or less innovation or the road less traveled. To be shocking isn't enough, it has to make people think and open them up to ideas they would have never thought of themselves. That's how I see it. It needs to break down walls, not just by pushing the envelope, but folding it up into a paper airplane and throwing it off a building.

 

[Fade to Black]

But going back to my last paragraph in the post above...perhaps Multitudes was right after all - the motivation for clashing with the social norm could possibly be seen as deriving from an inherent need for the validation of exactly the platform one is trying to leave, which is to gain the affirmation of the social collective, some semblance of letting one know that there's people who agree with your stance. I think as social beings it's impossible to truly go against the grain with reckless abandon...but at least i think the thought of that is something wonderful.

 

[Multitudes]

Ftb... I'm glad that you enjoy this thread, as much as I do....
I don't see the "collective" as sameness... all the relation we create in this multitude(the collective) is where the invention of "new" forms derives... maybe the reason why we go in different way's is because I see the notion of the subject/individual as the basis(construted through language.. Descarte's cogito).. as the dominant/majoritant discourse which has to be replaced...
The impossibility I see is in the modernist definition of the avat garde, where I think it's in the multiple relations of desires that creates the possibility... but in a way maybe we seek the same, I just don't see the need to deconstruct, I see the need for relations to create and invent...
Edit: and as I was doing what ever it is I was doing..lol.. you just posted above, which might make my respond irrelevant...

Fourboltmain.. love your idea of folding.. It reminds me of origami... yes lets fold, unfold, refold... innumerable folds...

 

[fourboltmain]

Works on many levels too. You can fold your *** off, but you're still left with a piece of paper.

 

[Multitudes]

^^Yes.. especially if we are so blind that we can't see the folds and only see the paper.. never fold the paper to create paper... it's in the fold we discover 'new' forms...one of my favorite Picasso qoutes..."I have often used pieces from a newspaper for my papercollages, but never to make a newspaper"....

 

[artxstatic]

Resistance to conformity

I think as social beings it's impossible to truly go against the grain with reckless abandon...but at least i think the thought of that is something wonderful.

In response to your comment….It’s not impossible to go against the grain. There comes a point in our lives where we outlive all our worldly desires and focus on something more biblical. The needs that ground us to this world of illusion become irrelevant. Acceptance especially in this case is not a criteria, Self–education doesn’t support peripheral acceptance! It’s our development, our profound understanding of culture and the world that distinguishes us from the rest. Avant garde, in my opinion, is fundamentally about being “awake” so we can confront the forces in our world.

If we didn’t question everything and go against the system how could we ever expect to progress? Conformity is something we have cultivated and I’m sure we can at least do something about it!

 

[Johnny]

Wikipedia seemed somehow more....erm,.... focused....

 

[faust]

Wikipedia seemed somehow more....erm,.... focused....

 

[softgrey]

i pretty much thought there was nothing to discuss once the wikipedia definition was posted...

it's all pretty much covered there...

 

[Johnny]

It's quite entertaining though softie.......amazing really......

For further info see: http://www.private-eye.co.uk/sections.php?section_link=pseuds_corner&

 

[softgrey]

are you saying this would be more interesting if i was drinking some wine??...

...cause i would probably have to agree with that...

 

[faust]

let's talk about parrots.

 

[Multitudes]

... or try a cup of starbucks coffee...then it's rock n' roll...

 

[faust]

... or try a cup of starbucks coffee...then it's rock n' roll...

it's so avant-garde!!!

 

[PrinceOfCats]

let's talk about parrots.

Why not Flaubert, while you're at it...

 

[faust]

Why not Flaubert, while you're at it...

no, i was thinking about something much more earthly - like posts on this page

 

[Multitudes]

Yes... Parrots, Starbucks, Flaubert.... and Male Menopause...
what an avant-gardistic Multiplicity that would be...