Designer & Fashion Insiders Behavior (PLEASE READ POST #1 BEFORE POSTING)

[Les_Sucettes]

She is totally defensive about actual facts when he response should be: Maybe we didn't pushed diversity enough and that was a mistake for my part and i take full responsability for it and i support Edward for it because it's something that is very important!

But then again, did Alexandra pushed anything? In 25 years in don't think that we can say that she pushed a model, a designer, a photographer...
I mean, she waited long enough for those people to be famous thanks to others Vogue to finally work with them.

Exactly! But she basically keeps insisting that her only job was to sell magazines and if that means maintaining the status quo she’s justified doing so and no one can criticise her because she made a profit. Did she lost the plot?

Let’s not even talk about her confusion about the number of Naomi covers, if I embarrassed myself that way, i would go and lie down in a dark room for a while.

 

[sore]

I cannot even begin to rationalise with what he said. When you have 360k destitute unfortunates standing right on your doorstep, will you really vet their religious and political affiliations first before offering a helping hand?? I mean, are you Poland who only want Christian Syrians,while of course conveniently forgetting that in 2004 they too had to rely on the goodwill of others???

Karl can do well to familiarise himself with what started the Holocaust. Seven decades ago the Jews were in the same situation many Syrians find themselves in. And he's thrashing the one woman who seems intent to help these people despite the backlash from left and right?? See, this is what happens when you talk out of your **** 90% of all times times while getting glorified for it.

Also, when you look at who's cutting his cheques then these comments doesn't seem all that far fetched....

Thank you, Benn.

I will say this though, there is a growing concern within the German Jewish and also queer community about potential hate crimes from Muslims, and the numbers are actually on the rise. If Karl is indeed worried about the Jewish community in Germany, his ill informed nonsense did them a disservice to say the least. It is a sincere concern for many, but judging a whole religion based on some hearsay is not a good way to address it.

If Karl wants to save the German Jews from anti-semitism, he doesn't have to go all the way to Syria, by the way: This was one of the recent 'highlights' in tastelessness and disgustingness. It's unclear who did it, but it's far more likely that the people who stole the stones were Nazis, not Muslims.
According to this link (in German and admittedly a very pro-Migration and left-leaning site), a whopping 90% of those who committed anti-semitic crimes were Germans (including Germans of Arabic/Middle Eastern decent of course).

I don't want to justify his populist claims here, but one last remark in his defense: I don't believe the Wertheimers have anything to do with his position on this, as Benn implied. (And they don't have to hate Muslims just because they are Jewish, you're stereotyping just as beautifully as Karl here - or did they come forward with some political stance I don't know of?) I blame it on the very, very complicated and guilt-ridden relationship between Germans of his generation and Jews. I'm sure he hates to hear it, but as opposed to the majority of the world population he was actually alive when the Holocaust started. I do buy his honest concern for Jewish issues - but it doesn't raise my tolerance for his bullshitting.

 

[Deleted member 130879]

It's pretty obvious the only way Karl is exiting Chanel is inside a casket, but a 1% in me still hopes they bring it down for essentially the same content as Galliano's non-sober speech.

This. It is highly hypocrite to destroy Galliano for his behaviour while drunk and forgive Karl. It just shows how powerful he is.

 

[Les_Sucettes]

Thank you, Benn.

I will say this though, there is a growing concern within the German Jewish and also queer community about potential hate crimes from Muslims, and the numbers are actually on the rise. If Karl is indeed worried about the Jewish community in Germany, his ill informed nonsense did them a disservice to say the least. It is a sincere concern for many, but judging a whole religion based on some hearsay is not a good way to address it.

This “concern” as you put it is being well harnessed by far right parties that are now styling themselves as pro-LGBT, anti-misogyny, and anti-semitism vigilantes. The far right here in the Netherlands does not open bother operating any other way. It is just a disgusting cover for the basest of prejudices. His “opinion” is no different from all of those “defenders of liberty and western values” that have been polluting the media.

 

[sore]

This “concern” as you put it is being well harnessed by far right parties that are now styling themselves as pro-LGBT, anti-misogyny, and anti-semitism vigilantes. The far right here in the Netherlands does not open bother operating any other way. It is just a disgusting cover for the basest of prejudices. His “opinion” is no different from all of those “defenders of liberty and western values” that have been polluting the media.

See, I think that's exactly why we're where we're at in most Western countries, it's all so black and white.

I despise far-right parties that have recently discovered the merits of feminism and some Judeo-Christian heritage that has never been talked about before, but does this mean just because they have claimed the territory, it's all theirs now? Having worked with refugees a lot, I hope we can soon find a way to address these problems in a more civilized and efficient way. Karl's remarks are stupid and dangerous and in the way he phrased it there is indeed little difference between him and far right parties. But that doesn't necessarily make his concern a "concern" and his opinion an "opinion".

 

[Les_Sucettes]

See, I think that's exactly why we're where we're at in most Western countries, it's all so black and white.

I despise far-right parties that have recently discovered the merits of feminism and some Judeo-Christian heritage that has never been talked about before, but does this mean just because they have claimed the territory, it's all theirs now? Having worked with refugees a lot, I hope we can soon find a way to address these problems in a more civilized and efficient way. Karl's remarks are stupid and dangerous and in the way he phrased it there is indeed little difference between him and far right parties. But that doesn't necessarily make his concern a "concern" and his opinion an "opinion".

Quite the contrary, it’s not theirs at all that’s exactly the point, far right ideologies are totally incompatible with any of this territory they are trying to claim. That’s why this idea that you can be selective with your “concerns” , expect them to be heard, but at the same time hold completly prejudiced views does not cut it with me. Karl is entitled to his “opinion” , but the beauty of it is that we also all have the right to call him out on it. The complexity of the problem is beyond him, clearly he’s just parroting this populist stupidities we are constantly hearing, i do not understand why he should get a free pass just because of who he is.

 

[Littleathquakes]

Well it was only a matter of time before the kaiser hit the mat. And good riddance.

 

[Lola701]

This. It is highly hypocrite to destroy Galliano for his behaviour while drunk and forgive Karl. It just shows how powerful he is.

I just don't think that Galliano's case is comparable. I'm maybe wrong but from what i've seen from the TV show and what Galliano said in the tape, there's a big difference.

I love John but let's be honest, he is able to work and express himself today because we have been indulgent toward him because of who he is and his talent. Drunk or not, if it was in another industry or even another person, be sure that it could have been impossible for that person to find a job...Even more at such a top position at an important company.

If Karl is powerful, Galliano is surrounded by powerful people who were able to support him after what he said.

 

[squilliam]

I just don't think that Galliano's case is comparable. I'm maybe wrong but from what i've seen from the TV show and what Galliano said in the tape, there's a big difference.

I love John but let's be honest, he is able to work and express himself today because we have been indulgent toward him because of who he is and his talent. Drunk or not, if it was in another industry or even another person, be sure that it could have been impossible for that person to find a job...Even more at such a top position at an important company.

If Karl is powerful, Galliano is surrounded by powerful people who were able to support him after what he said.

John did apologize and go to rehab, so he did penance for his deeds. I doubt karl would need anything more than a "it was taken out of context" bs excuse. Besides, John was stressed out and drunk when he said what he did, karl was perfectly sober saying what he did. I've heard that apparen't lyrics karl says similar inappropriate stuff in private, and no critic can touch his currently awful designs. He's a lot more powerful than other designers at the moment. He basically has a personality cult around him.

Also, as a mid easterner who had to get granted asylum and wait 10 years to become a US citizen, his comments bother me a lot. It's not easy being a foreigner, and you have to try and be good, most people don't want to get deported. I'd imagine most immigrants just try to be good in their new home, even if they disagree with some of the morality of the place. But I'm an Iraqi Christian (who looks eastern European) , so I certainly did not have to deal with much prejudice. However, I feel like immigrants causing problems is being blown out of proportion for personal gain by some, and karl as smart as he likes to appear seems to have taken the bait.

 

[Benn98]

I'd imagine most immigrants just try to be good in their new home, even if they disagree with some of the morality of the place.

I was thinking exactly the same, but I didn't say it because I don't want to sound like Nell from the mountains.

There are criminal elements everywhere, and of course there would be with such a large group. It's just so shameful and provincial to tar the lot with one brush. This sort of thing happened in the UK as well. A few isolated cases, which actually had been a pre-existing issue, got exploited as one of the reasons to exit Europe. One would think that a worldly 'Frenchman' (sic) who works with people from so many different backgrounds would know better.

 

[fashionista-ta]

^ Some people have an infinite capacity for ignorance.

Since he's an LGBT person, it would certainly be nice if he were sensitized to the dangers and pitfalls and complete inadequacy of stereotyping. I've also been wondering what Miss Hadid thinks of these remarks.

 

[squilliam]

^ Some people have an infinite capacity for ignorance.

Since he's an LGBT person, it would certainly be nice if he were sensitized to the dangers and pitfalls and complete inadequacy of stereotyping. I've also been wondering what Miss Hadid thinks of these remarks.

Yea, I wonder what the Hadid girls would say since their father is Muslim

As for karl being lgbt, im pretty sure he once said he dI'd not afree with same-sex marriage, but then some short years later he has a same-sex wedding couple at the finale of a couture show. I wondered if it was sincere or if he was just going along with what was popular at the time. He seems to do that a lot lately, go with the popular stuff

 

[fashionista-ta]

^ If there's a brain or a heart rattling around in there, perhaps he experienced a change.

I remember many years ago starting an argument with a friend about this ... we were driving down the California coast (me at the wheel), and she insisted on taking the scenic route, I believe CA 101, which hairpins around many, many redwoods. They are beautiful, but the hairpin turns are a bit hair-raising. This put me in a mood, so I made the case for gay marriage, and by the end of the road trip, she admitted I was right There are a lot of people to whom it has (and I guess to some it still does) seemed 'wrong' who've come around. And then there are those who haven't ... one need look no further than Stefano Gabbana for a selection of antiquated views held by someone who should know better

 

[squilliam]

^ If there's a brain or a heart rattling around in there, perhaps he experienced a change.

I remember many years ago starting an argument with a friend about this ... we were driving down the California coast (me at the wheel), and she insisted on taking the scenic route, I believe CA 101, which hairpins around many, many redwoods. They are beautiful, but the hairpin turns are a bit hair-raising. This put me in a mood, so I made the case for gay marriage, and by the end of the road trip, she admitted I was right There are a lot of people to whom it has (and I guess to some it still does) seemed 'wrong' who've come around. And then there are those who haven't ... one need look no further than Stefano Gabbana for a selection of antiquated views held by someone who should know better

I did think that maybe he had changed, but sometimes he seems so into gimmicks and new trends that it makes me wonder about his sincerity. Like I wonder even if this is partly him jumping on the refugee hating bandwagon, although it does seem more like him being so out of touch with the world

 

[Lola701]

As for karl being lgbt, im pretty sure he once said he dI'd not afree with same-sex marriage, but then some short years later he has a same-sex wedding couple at the finale of a couture show. I wondered if it was sincere or if he was just going along with what was popular at the time. He seems to do that a lot lately, go with the popular stuff

You have to remember that Karl may be LGBT but he comes from a different era. Even if he has go through the evolution of LGBT rights over the decades, he has pretty much been protected. Being a young gay man in the Haute Couture world was slightly different than being a regular gay man.

He said that he was against same-sex marriage only because it was bourgeois and that at the time (of his youth i believe), gay people wanted everything but to live a bourgeois life.
When he did the same-sex wedding at the Couture show, it was a reaction to the protest from the anti same-sex marriage here in France and i remember that he declared on French TV that he may have been against same-sex marriage, he was even more against people who were against same-sex marriage.

And then he showed his support.

Yea, I wonder what the Hadid girls would say since their father is Muslim

You don't even have to go that far as the Hadid. The man has actually muslim/arabian people in his circle. From intellectuals to actresses, directors that he support. Even more through Sebastien Jondeau, his bodyguard/personal assistant and the Grimaldi family.


The last part of his comment is so ambiguous...I don't know how they translated in english but it's so weird in french because it led people to totally different interpretations. And that's where the CSA (people who control french TV) have to look into deeply.


I think maybe this Karl's thing shows maybe something that has been too present here in France. It has always been a common place here to care about designer's views on society (from Gabrielle Chanel to Paco Rabanne). In a way, i think it's interesting but when something like this happen, i wonder if it's still necessary. His interview was actually very interesting up until that moment!

Karl has always been close to people from the left party and now, he is very supportive of Macron. Even if some of those ideas were heard before the election, i've heard that there's some embarrassement about it in the parisian circle.

 

[fashionista-ta]

^ I understand the point about marriage being bourgeois, and I'm not a tremendously establishment person myself. I appreciate people who question norms--and I do that myself. At the same time, I see the value of people being bourgeois, being building blocks of society, and those people shouldn't be--and crucially, aren't--all straight. Bourgeois people, and creative people, and people who question the status quo, come in all flavors and colors of the rainbow, and so it should be. LGBT people belong in all of those categories, and the quiet explosion of gay marriage when it became legal absolutely proved that. I think it's also true that many different kinds of people want to have a legal commitment to each other for a variety of reasons. It's not one motive that gives so many people the same desire. Maybe this is a bit complex for Karl to understand

 

[Lola701]

^^
Exactly!You said it all...
That's why i believe that journalist asking him questions about everything is kinda irrelevant. Him being a gay man "from another generation", who lived a fairly privileged non-conventional life, who had a partner for 17 years and hasn't been in any relationship since his death almost 30 years ago cannot relate to those questions.
You're totally right when you says that it's a bit complex for him to understand that.

Even when he supported that he used a very "May 68" quote to express it: "it's forbiden to forbid".

I think sometimes he says some truth but i'm much more interested in hearing his opinion in fashion, photography, philosophy and books. Hearing his opinion on society subjects is a total non-sense for me as it is irrelevant. It is his right to be an individual and talk about it privately but does the world needs this? No.

And to be honest, i think that we pay to much attention to what he said.

 

[dsamg]

I just don't think that Galliano's case is comparable. I'm maybe wrong but from what i've seen from the TV show and what Galliano said in the tape, there's a big difference.

I love John but let's be honest, he is able to work and express himself today because we have been indulgent toward him because of who he is and his talent. Drunk or not, if it was in another industry or even another person, be sure that it could have been impossible for that person to find a job...Even more at such a top position at an important company.

If Karl is powerful, Galliano is surrounded by powerful people who were able to support him after what he said.

Thank you. The two situations are not comparable in the slightest! I disagree with Karl completely, but he gave a misguided opinion about a controversial and sensitive situation. Galliano came out and said he loved Hitler...Karl certainly was not praising or promoting genocide in the slightest.

 

[fashionista-ta]

^ Well, I think that statement is a little strong. Neglecting/rejecting refugees can lead directly to deaths. Right now we have a record number of refugees in the world since WWII, and many are Muslim and not being welcomed by non-majority Muslim countries. We absolutely have a humanitarian crisis, and fueling anti-refugee sentiment has serious consequences. It's a more passive approach, but the results can be very similar.

 

[t-rex]

Ana Marie Cox (a political writer/pundit) wrote this on her Instagram. I was told that MSNBC's Mika Brzezinski said something similar about Leibovitz a few weeks ago on her Twitter/Instagram but has since deleted it. What are they talking about?


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