Model's Age - How Young Is Too Young?

[LegsXI]

It's so weird that Ruby Aldridge is only 18, same age as me. she has been knocking around for so long

 

[jacquelineo]

I honestly don't see anything wrong with Kiki and Barbara doing VS Pink. It is a brand that caters to young teenagers. I like that they are promoting age appropriate clothing. I would much rather have them in that catalog then them promoting Versace but that is my opinion

 

[JSYK]

really? in some ways i'm more bothered by this than full-on nudity in editorials, because i imagine men of all ages ogling that "hot VS babe" - who happens to be a HS sophomore. they do have the Pink girls showing off lingerie in flirty poses (granted i haven't seen Keke on the website though), so i don't think it's fair to make it out like a non-sexualized teenybopper brand.

idk i guess it's the VS connotations that bother me. and the angles in that video were kind of disturbing.

 

[behansu]

I'm not sure if this is the right thread for this, but Jezebel has an interesting article up about young models and sex-trafficking that you can read here. MC2 agency owner/co-founder Jean Luc Brunel is implicated and mentioned throughout the piece.

It's very scary when the people who are supposed to be watching out for these girls are the very ones taking advantage of them. I know this is a extreme case, but the fact that Brunel was under investigation more than 2 decades ago, yet still continues to work seemingly without suffering any consequences, is very disturbing to me.

 

[KhaoticKharma]

^ That's awful

I used to play devil's advocate rather heavily for younger models, but one thing I've noticed (as I've gotten older), is that often times, the models that seem the most "adjusted" seem to have started over sixteen- the models you don't hear about for super destructive behavior or having other major personal issues. Liya Kebede, Cindy Crawford, Sasha Pivovarova, etc. I do think there is something to be said for having some sort of life before fashion, just to keep you a little more grounded, perhaps.

 

[Fontenrose]

Saw this in the Nudity thread, thought a copy might be useful here:

Isaac Likes

I've noticed a hell of a lot of new face models being shot for tests by young, male, Auckland based photographers of late, and there seems to be a fairly consistent theme running through the lot – exposed breasts. All I can say to any young girls thinking about getting into the business is that your bare breasts aren't going to get you a job. It's not art and it's not fashion, it's an excuse for heterosexual men to see you naked in the name of art or fashion. I spent a good hour talking to a model yesterday about how he wishes his agents had kept a closer eye on him when he first started out. He believes that had they advised him better, there wouldn't be half naked/compromising photos of him all over the internet now. If you ever feel uncomfortable on a shoot, speak up. If you're going to shoot a test, ask your agents exactly what's going to be involved. They're there to protect you, make sure they do their job. Because seriously – any shot that involves you frolicking naked on a beach could just as easily be taken with you in a bikini. Think about the future – do you really want naked photos of yourself all over the internet? And photographers, stop taking advantage. It's getting ridiculous.

New face models exposing their breasts - the bookers have their say

Following up on Friday's post about new face models being photographed topless for test shoots, I called a few bookers to get their opinions on the matter. Remember, this is specifically relating to unpaid test shoots with new face models. It's not an argument about nudity in photographs or in fashion, but about new face models doing nude or topless test shoots. Okay? Okay. First up, I contacted a top booker in Sydney (who wishes to remain nameless). He said, "It does seem exploitative so early on in a girl’s career, especially if it’s just for a test. I wouldn’t put a shot like that on a girl’s card. I would always want to know prior to the shoot if nudity were to be involved. It’s not that common in Sydney. It’s not how I would promote a new face."

Responses from Auckland agents, below.

According to Ryan Sharp from 62 Models, "We are extremely careful about what kind of work our new face girls undertake and nudity is something we would endeavor to protect them from. Nude photographs can be stunningly beautiful and many top models and photographers collaborate on these, however the model must be old enough, fully informed and aware of what it is she is doing, something I do not believe many new entrants into this industry are."

Huia Ngapo, a model-turned booker: "I do not think it helps ANY model’s career to go topless be they new-face or an experienced international model. I think that it is incredibly unprofessional and unethical to encourage a new-face model to go topless in a shoot of any kind- regardless of age. At that point in a model’s career they are still being introduced to this industry and developing trust within the agency- model relationship. They are as yet unskilled and inexperienced in front of the camera. I expect my models to be very good at what they do, they get their work because of talent, devotion and professionalism - not because I have over-sexualised them as a marketing or promotional technique. If the model is over 18 and experienced, I will consider her doing topless IF I think that the resulting shot will be tasteful, beautiful and beneficial to their portfolio - if these requirements are met and I am satisfied the model will be well taken care of and treated with the utmost care and respect during the shoot then I will allow her to make the final decision herself.

"I know that there are certain people in this industry who have not only allowed but encouraged young girls to reveal themselves in an overly sexual way and it is these people that it is my job to protect my models from. As an agent I feel a strong responsibility to my models and their families to manage their careers with professionalism and respect at all times. I know from feedback I have received from major international and local players in this industry (Super Agencies, photographers, editors, stylists and designers) that nudity is not what creates a good model and it is neither here nor there in a model's career. Any agency who tells a model otherwise is putting that model, her confidence, her trust and her reputation in danger - is this agent a good agent? Absolutely not. Should you trust them? Absolutely not. Do they have your best interests at heart? No. During my modeling career of 10 years I feel I had the best possible management I could have. I was protected, I was informed, I was managed. Correctly. It made ALL the difference to me and my family. It is because of this excellent management that I am now a booker myself, keeping my models safe."

A commenter on the previous post had this to say: "I think young models should realise in NZ it most likely isn't going to lead to a career. Plus with the increasingly imposing information age they are not going to be taken seriously in the workplace if you google their name and boobie photos come up."

Wise words.

According to Amanda Betts at Red Eleven, "Undeniably, there are many photographers, men and women, who do want to shoot some of our talent, both men and women, semi/nude. Red11’s staff treat all job offers on a case-by-case basis as it is Red11’s company policy that we forward all work offered to our talent despite our personal feelings or opinions on the work. Having said that, we have never been asked by any of our clients to offer semi/nude work to anyone under 18 years.

"We have not yet had a case where a model under 18 years old has been involved in semi/nude work to my recollection. However, there has been one occasion where a model who had been modelling for over 18 months did a semi-nude shoot when she was in Australia which was done direct via her overseas agency and the model’s mother. We had no input in this matter.

"Personally, all of us here at Red11love many images that many of our photographers, stylists and models are producing for different reasons: because they are beautiful...or make us think or buy into a fantasy, break moulds and ideals…all sorts of things."

Clyne and Nova have also been contacted, I'm awaiting their responses.

​

lots of good comments:

... when i arrived in hong kong i had all pictures showing my breasts removed from my book by my agency there. in london, this was completely reversed. in new zealand & australia & america they're very selective, i find that overall it maybe gives my book more international credibility... and in terms of whether it gives you an advantage? i've heard clients say amongst themselves, great, we have 16 changes and half a day to shoot them, at least she's not going to be uptight & running off to the bathrooms to get changed between shots. there's definitely an attitude in the industry towards the more modest models who aren't comfortable changing in front of a room of people as being unnecessary timewasters who are insulting the crew's professionalism... you can argue that being a model shouldn't mean having to stand in nothing more than a nude g-string being spraytanned at fashion week while the backstage photographers mill around, but it's the reality of the industry.

opting out can cost you jobs, but also probably keep your mum happy... it's just a matter of taste, and to be honest i think it's barely the biggest issue to worry about for young models. schooling them on how to travel safely, cope with being told to cross the borders into countries as a 'tourist' when you're going to a job & the consequences of being caught are no joke, how to effectively deter the dodgy guys who hang out outside the model apartments in milan & are friends with the doorman who is meant to keep them out, the agency owners who also happen to own nightclubs, teach them how to manage their money, how to not be taken advantage of by agencies keeping your money as long they can in high interest savings accounts before paying their models, and what to expect from management - a lesson on the fact that agencies work for you and not the other way around... these are the things new models need to worry about far more than whether conservatives from nz will think they were silly for getting their kit off.

​

 

[99 Apples]

I feel like purging my tfs account every time someone posts a pair of 15-year-old breast buds.

why isn't something like that an automatic ban?

 

[Fontenrose]

The model from the Isaac Likes blog post is 20, according to the comments.

 

[nijuyanah]

I feel like purging my tfs account every time someone posts a pair of 15-year-old breast buds.

why isn't something like that an automatic ban?

I completely agree I mean, okay... there might be 15/16 y.o girls who actually look mature, decide themselves to go the path of modelling (withouth being forced by their parents/ society/ whatsoever) and maybe do a decent amount of editorial work in their freetime or during holidays so that their education won't suffer from it and they can get the right development process etc. But when it comes to provocative/ sexy/ or even NUDE shots from underage girls - I really have no comprehension for that.

I think 15 might be good age to start with modelling - start developing a good knowledge of the business and how to act around clients/ in front of the camera. But seeing girls at that age wearing women's clothes is already a big joke. But seeing these girls half-naked is more than wrong.

 

[modela]

''cope with being told to cross the borders into countries as a 'tourist' when you're going to a job & the consequences of being caught are no joke''

So models have to pretend to be tourists??Im not getting this.

 

[Fontenrose]

''cope with being told to cross the borders into countries as a 'tourist' when you're going to a job & the consequences of being caught are no joke''

So models have to pretend to be tourists??Im not getting this.

Sometimes people doing business in a country don't bother to get a work visa. It's expensive and time-consuming. Even test shoots can be considered commercial transactions if a border official gets cranky.

Carrying commercial materials is risky. That's one advantage IMG using ipads for portfolios -- no crossing borders with a big tell-tale portfolio!

 

[99 Apples]

I completely agree I mean, okay... there might be 15/16 y.o girls who actually look mature, decide themselves to go the path of modelling (withouth being forced by their parents/ society/ whatsoever) and maybe do a decent amount of editorial work in their freetime or during holidays so that their education won't suffer from it and they can get the right development process etc. But when it comes to provocative/ sexy/ or even NUDE shots from underage girls - I really have no comprehension for that.

I don't get it. the moderators here will edit a post if someone ACCIDENTALLY quotes an image, but they don't bother with the ones that contain photographs of nude children.

 

[Echoes]

I feel like purging my tfs account every time someone posts a pair of 15-year-old breast buds.

why isn't something like that an automatic ban?

I completely agree I mean, okay... there might be 15/16 y.o girls who actually look mature, decide themselves to go the path of modelling (withouth being forced by their parents/ society/ whatsoever) and maybe do a decent amount of editorial work in their freetime or during holidays so that their education won't suffer from it and they can get the right development process etc. But when it comes to provocative/ sexy/ or even NUDE shots from underage girls - I really have no comprehension for that.

I think 15 might be good age to start with modelling - start developing a good knowledge of the business and how to act around clients/ in front of the camera. But seeing girls at that age wearing women's clothes is already a big joke. But seeing these girls half-naked is more than wrong.

I don't get it. the moderators here will edit a post if someone ACCIDENTALLY quotes an image, but they don't bother with the ones that contain photographs of nude children.

You'd think if tFS wanted to be influential ( http://forums.thefashionspot.com/f121/does-tfs-community-really-influence-fashion-world-110877.html ) this would be one place they could take a stand and at least try to make a difference.

 

[Fontenrose]

Comments from Sarah Ziff's (herself a model) documentary Picture Me:

Quotes from a photographer: "There are some situations where people are really abused. I think what is really terrible is people who get models who aren't really going to be top models, and sell this modelling career to them, and take them to Milan and stick them in a room with six other models, and the only way they can eat is by going to night clubs with businessmen and getting free food. And obviously the connotations involved with that are just despicable.

Says Ziff, "It's very important to understand that there is a stark difference between what happens here, at New York Fashion Week, and what happens lower down the food chain. The few who really succeed in this business, like Karolina Kurkova, are pampered with first-class travel and can earn fortunes. But many are saddled with debt and, in some cases, even pimped out by their agencies as arm candy — and sometimes more — to influential clients and rich friends. This borderline prostitution goes on even at some top agencies."

Model Karolina Kurkova speaks on the age issue on the video.
Anya Rubik comments on how there used to be privacy for girls dressing backstage at shows, and how that is not considered a priority anymore.

http://nymag.com/daily/fashion/2010/09/exclusive_video_sara_ziffs_pic_1.html

 

[Fontenrose]

by cestmagique in the Weight thread:

They could start by setting age limits, rather than celebrating the barely pubescent bodies of 13 year old kids. If girls don't start modeling until they're a few years older, then perhaps they'll be a little more mature and will know better than to take the worst of their agents' advice. It would also help with those girls who hit the runways and then after a few years suddenly develop hips, etc. and are cast aside. If they were to start later, they could simply navigate toward the work they're actually suited for rather than trying to go back, drop weight, and get the same kinds of jobs they had before. This is an industry that hires & uses up girls that are hardly out of childhood; the point is that the government and the industry have reason to make regulations, but simply don't because they have other incentives.
​

​

 

[99 Apples]

You'd think if tFS wanted to be influential ( http://forums.thefashionspot.com/f121/does-tfs-community-really-influence-fashion-world-110877.html ) this would be one place they could take a stand and at least try to make a difference.

seriously. would any moderators be willing to comment on this?

 

[99 Apples]

this girl is reading the babysitter's club:

isthisitmodelreview.com

it's from last season I think and her name is esme wissels... I don't know how old she is, but the babysitter's club? she must be very, very young.

 

[Mahon]

Esme Wissels is 17 and from that picture it looks like the book is a prop for the photoshoot.

 

[99 Apples]

Esme Wissels is 17 and from that picture it looks like the book is a prop for the photoshoot.

lol I don't know if that makes it less creepy or more. I mean, are they selling a line of children's clothes? why make a 17-year-old, which is already very young, seem 10 or 11?

I get that young is hip, but since when was 12 the new 25?

either that or esme has the mind of a child and is still reading those at 17.

 

[BerlinRocks]

i've been brought there from the latest Vogue Paris thread (dec 2010 - jan 2011), and i just wanted to rephrase what i've read about Inez ...
Inez & Vinoodh NEVER cast a girl who's under 18 yrs old and who's never had sexual intercourse ...

i wanted to let people who didn't know about that (like me) know ...

* see the article about Inez in Gentlewoman # 2