Boys And The Hoodie

[PrinceOfCats]

So in fashion terms you are saying all the smaller independent houses like Armani, (and Hermes I think) should join up and fight against LVMH, lol, does this analogy have any weight

No, what we want is power divided. By uniting power in the EU we divide world power. It's one of those whole 'lesser of two evils' whojamaflips.

I think you'd have to do a lot of research to prove that uniting independent brands would divide up fashion overall - that it really is the lesser of the two.

Obviously, collaboration is always a good thing. The difference between collaboration and monopolisation (unilateral power) in fashion and in politics is hard to define. I think it's safe to say that KL working with H&M is beneficial to fashion whereas LVHM is detrimental. I wouldn't like to try to apply that to world politics...

 

[Kalista]

On the issue of hoodies....

As a piece of clothing I like hoodies a lot. They are comfortable and can indeed be convenient.

However, they can cause problems in certain places or in certain situations. Think of it this way: you are working as a CCTV operator in a busy, crowded shopping centre that has had an increase in the number of crimes committed during the past few years. If I was in that position I would be pretty annoyed and frustrated if I couldn't see somebody's face clearly because they had their hood up.

And on the hoodies in school issue: If hoodies aren't a part of the compulsory school uniform then I don't see any problem with banning students from wearing them on the school site. What they wear outside of the school premises is of little concern.

 

[meme527]

please note, as far as i know.. in EU, hood inspiration comes more from the skaters cult/lifestyle than the R&B/rapper pose

thanks for acknowleding my post, lena. it's good to know it wasn't totally ignored.

this thread does seem to be pretty heavily european/british. there are a lot of factors at work there that i'm not familiar with, being an american.

what i have noticed is that people are willing to bring in all kinds of sociopolitical elements into a discussion of fashion, and to acknowledge the relevance of those elements - with the exception of race. when race is brought up as a factor that might influence the world of fashion, it is seen as off topic, and the conversation is shut down.

but - back on topic.

i like hoods and other head converings. i feel protected in them. it's nice to limit the stimuli you get from the outside world, especially in an urban environment where there is lots of "noise", both literal and figurative. i can see how people of any age might feel that way - and teenagers are often *hypersensitive*.

rather than seeing them all from the outside and reacting to them with fear, why not put ourselves in their...hoods?

meme

 

[PrinceOfCats]

what i have noticed is that people are willing to bring in all kinds of sociopolitical elements into a discussion of fashion, and to acknowledge the relevance of those elements - with the exception of race. when race is brought up as a factor that might influence the world of fashion, it is seen as off topic, and the conversation is shut down.

In the context of this thread, there is no -ism of any kind going on in the original hoodie-ban posted. The ban is aimed at dettering petty criminals who find it easy to avoid CCTV using hoodies. By extension, the people who the ban is affected by are more likely to be poor, more likely to be black, more likely to be young and more likely to be male. That's society's classism, racism, ageism and sexism though, not Bluewater's.

 

[screenage]

and the "society" we keep talking about on this thread seems to be very european...

 

[meme527]

you know, i think that this is a case of aiming at the shadow of a thing, instead of the thing itself. bluewater's (are they a chain, or just a single store?) is trying to control theft and crime, and admitting that it can't, by waging a kind of war against a type of clothing instead.

in other words - we can't keep people from stealing or commiting crime, but we CAN keep them from wearing hoodies on our property!

really, it's a sad admission of impotence, isn't it?

meme

 

[Lena]

still off topic on EU politics , from few posts back

Maybe America should be broken up as opposed to Europe uniting.

good one..
i'm in greece, mother of democracy screenage
of course our leaders 'decided' for us, it was an easy yes

*your highness i completly agree here

To add to this off-topic sojourn I'd note that the US government has been trying to smash any kind of unity in Europe since the 1940s. Most recently, they tried to get Turkey into the EU as their Trojan horse as a favour for support over Iraq. Once in, the US would have used Turkey as their 'man in Europe'. Turkey, bankrolled by US funds and owing the US a favour, would feel obliged to comply.

Europe needs to unite fast before the US sabotages it to increase its own wealth.

i'm all for a united Europe but not in a carde blanche, we need some kind of civil rights and this constitution was/is a bit too lame to vote

 

[screenage]

have you read, as I said previously I'm reading it at the moment, although it is a redundant task as the treaty is dead. I guess the reason that the peoples of Europe should be saying no is so that the government can't make decisions for you (like in greece, haha Lena)

 

[PrinceOfCats]

i'm all for a united Europe but not in a carde blanche, we need some kind of civil rights and this constitution was/is a bit too lame to vote

I totally agree there (as I said, I was thinking about very much the long-term).

Agree with meme also, I think, but I would add that banning hoodies isn't just Bluewater 'flexing their muscles'. Yes, it's also way of indirectly trying to tackle crime. But without state powers how could a company hope to tackle crime other than 'aiming at shadows'? (with the admission that some policies are more 'shadowy' than others)

 

[Lena]

. By extension, the people who the ban is affected by are more likely to be poor, more likely to be black, more likely to be young and more likely to be male. That's society's classism, racism, ageism and sexism though, not Bluewater's.

i wouldnt ever involve race issues on the hood ban problem
the way i've seen it in greece/france its mainly age & religion targeted not class/money/sex orientated.
the only way i can see this will situation to be developed is strictly on a political 'reaction' its somekind of provocative ban, which will have its cost.

society's need to see my face and check me up ALL the time simply makes me mad.
i want to keep the right not to show my face if i want to, hate being forced not to do something.
this ban will only backfire to the system, it's a very very stupid move and in Europe it works in a completly different way, its a different reality for us, simply cause cctv is slowly getting under our very pants.

 

[screenage]

With all this talk of politics and what have you, I have totally forgotten what this thread was about haha.

 

[Lena]

indirectly trying to tackle crime. But without state powers how could a company hope to tackle crime other than 'aiming at shadows'? (with the admission that some policies are more 'shadowy' than others)

said it before and i'll say this again
crime doesnt dissapear with a banning on hoods,
fight criminal behaviour while fighting reasons creating it
by giving people ethics, jobs and education
but first by giving people a reason to BE and go on developing

no-future generation having a comeback ?

 

[PrinceOfCats]

said it before and i'll say this again
crime doesnt dissapear with a banning on hoods,
fight criminal behaviour while fighting reasons creating it
by giving people ethics, jobs and education
but first by giving people a reason to BE and go on developing

no-future generation having a comeback ?

Yes, but as I mentioned in the quote, how does a private company fight crime, how can, as Tony Blair puts it, a company be "tough on the causes of crime"? There are a few companies that have the financial clout to help poverty perhaps, but realistically they're about as likely to give away money as John Galliano is to produce an all black, minimalist collection in hommage to Rei Kawakubo.

 

[Lena]

private companies should follow the law, i bet its anticonstitutional to force a ban on certain kinds of dress/garments from entering your mass visited market..
it all goes back to government and the way they handle things..

what if Blair wouldnt dare ban the hood so he plays ball with this shopping center and more are to follow...

cctv placement in britain is extremely aggressive hence the reaction, signs reminding you that you are been watched is like everywhere.. even if one tries to miss the camera will see the big fat yellow 'cctv activated' sign.
cctv could work better if more discreet and avoiding making an issue out of hoods and hats would be for the good of the 'survailance system' but as we see, this is not the way.. hence the provocation

 

[meme527]

what does "cc" stand for? "crime control"? i'd love to see pictures of the cameras and such.

is cctv government run, or a private security company? and when did it start?

 

[PrinceOfCats]

Closed Circuit Tele-Vision - security cameras...

In the UK CCTV is used by many private companies to tackle crime, small shopowners often have CCTV as well, the Police also use cameras in trouble areas and the government use cameras on municipal buildings in danger of crime. They have been proven to reduce crime in specific location surveys. There's no data on their effectiveness in reducting crime overall.

 

[kit]

private companies should follow the law, i bet its anticonstitutional to force a ban on certain kinds of dress/garments from entering your mass visited market..
it all goes back to government and the way they handle things..

what if Blair wouldnt dare ban the hood so he plays ball with this shopping center and more are to follow...

cctv placement in britain is extremely aggressive hence the reaction, signs reminding you that you are been watched is like everywhere.. even if one tries to miss the camera will see the big fat yellow 'cctv activated' sign.
cctv could work better if more discreet and avoiding making an issue out of hoods and hats would be for the good of the 'survailance system' but as we see, this is not the way.. hence the provocation

Firms tag workers to improve efficiency

[font=Geneva,Arial,sans-serif]David Hencke
Tuesday June 7, 2005
The Guardian

[/font][font=Geneva,Arial,sans-serif]Workers in warehouses across Britain are being "electronically tagged" by being asked to wear small computers to cut costs and increase the efficient delivery of goods and food to supermarkets, a report revealed yesterday.


New US satellite- and radio-based computer technology is turning some workplaces into "battery farms" and creating conditions similar to "prison surveillance", according to a report from Michael Blakemore, professor of geography at Durham University. The technology, introduced six months ago, is spreading rapidly, with up to 10,000 employees using it to supply household names such as Tesco, Sainsbury's, Asda, Boots and Marks & Spencer.

Now trade unionists want safeguards to be introduced to protect worker privacy.


Under the system workers are asked to wear computers on their wrists, arms and fingers, and in some cases to put on a vest containing a computer which instructs them where to go to collect goods from warehouse shelves.

The system also allows su permarkets direct access to the individual's computer so orders can be beamed from the store. The computer can also check on whether workers are taking unauthorised breaks and work out the shortest time a worker needs to complete a job.

Academics are worried that the system could make Britain the most surveyed society in the world. The country already has the largest number of street security cameras.

Martin Dodge, a researcher at the centre for advanced spatial analysis at University College London, said: "These de vices mark the total 'disappearance of disappearance' where the employee is unable to do anything without the machine knowing or monitoring."

In his report for the GMB union, Prof Blakemore said the new technology was raising a host of ethical issues, with the danger that the computer was taking over the human rather than humans using computers.

There is also concern that the new technology might create new industrial injuries because of the need for workers to make repetitive move ments with their arms and wrists, similar to repetitive strain injuries caused by overusing computers.

But the companies say the system makes the delivery of food more efficient, cuts out waste, reduces theft and can reorder goods more quickly.

One firm, Peacock Retail Group, claims workers like the system. The company, which has a modern centre in Nantgarw, south Wales, where employees have 28 wearable computers and six mounted on trucks, says the system has a positive impact on team morale. "Everybody likes the wearables because they are comfortable and easy to use. The result is the team finds it easier to do the job," it says on the company website.

A spokeswoman for Tesco last night insisted that the company was not using the technology to monitor the staff and said it was making employees' work easier and reducing the need for paper.

But at the GMB's annual conference in Newcastle yesterday one of the union's national officers, Paul Campbell, said: "We are having reports of people walking out of jobs after a few days' work, in some cases just a few hours. They are all saying that they don't like the job because they have no input. They just followed a computer's instructions."

Paul Kenny, acting general secretary, said: "The GMB is no Luddite organisation but we will not stand idly by to see our members reduced to automatons. The use of this technology needs to be redesigned to be an aid to the worker rather than making the worker its slave.

"The supermarkets that rely on just-in-time shelf-filling rather than holding buffer stocks are incredibly prof itable companies. They can well afford to operate a humanised supply team."

Other monitoring devices are being developed in the US, including ones that can check on the productivity of secretaries by measuring the number of key strokes on their word processors; satellite technology is also being developed to monitor productivity in manufacturing jobs. Two London firms are considering using satellites to direct sandwich board holders, making sure they are not shirking and moving them to areas with more people.


I feel it to be highly ironic that GILBERT AND GEORGE , the contoversial UK artists , have chosen as the subject for their installation at the Venice Biennale - Black boys and the ' hoodie ' .

Plus ca cange , plus c' est la meme chose ...........
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[PrinceOfCats]

But at the GMB's annual conference in Newcastle yesterday one of the union's national officers

There's an enormous masonic hall down the road from me actually...

 

[Paullw]

private companies should follow the law, i bet its anticonstitutional to force a ban on certain kinds of dress/garments from entering your mass visited market..
it all goes back to government and the way they handle things

It can't be, as already stated many bars/clubs/restaurants have much stricter dress codes in place, stating what you cannot or must wear. Its a private building, you can choose whether you want to go in or not.

If people really care about this issue that much then Bluewater's profits will drop and they'll have to remove the ban. If, as I suspect, the majority of people have nothing to hide and aren't that bothered about revealing their face, then the ban will stay in place.

On the subject of CCTV, its present in nearly all of the world's major cities. I'm sure there will be some near everyone on this forum, you just hardly ever notice them. In some ways London is quite good, because at least they tell you that the cameras are there. I think the place with most cameras is in fact Monaco. They can be seen as a slight breach of privacy, but they only see what everyone around you can see anyway.

Also, why worry? If you aren't doing anything wrong then you don't really have anything to worry about. You'll have to put your hood down if you ever go to Bluewater, but unless you need to rob someone then it shouldn't be a problem. I agree that monitoring individual people for no reason is going too far, but CCTV is just watched and recorded, they won't know, or care much, who you are, and it can help increase the safety of places. If someone gets injured/attacked then an ambulance can be sent immediately to help them, I know its used like this a lot in Britain.

 

[helena]

Golf clubs have been restriting access on the grounds of not wearing utterly crap outfits for eons!!!!